Anonymous
Post 06/28/2022 14:25     Subject: Why are people here so averse to pushing their kids?
Work ethic is different than having the most rigorous course load. My daughter was an average student. Nothing I could do could change that, except for spending tons of money in tutors and we did for a little, but it added stress and she only marginally improved. Terrible test taker.

My daughter has strengths that outweigh a rigorous course load any day. She is punctual, articulate, speaks well with adults, and takes her job seriously and with pride. She takes care of her appearance. She is courteous to all. She is not lazy and very driven. Just because she didn’t take AP classes means nothing about work ethic or the drive to succeed.
Anonymous
Post 06/28/2022 14:17     Subject: Why are people here so averse to pushing their kids?
Anonymous wrote:I posted this as a comment on another thread, but I think it's odd how many posters here are averse to pushing their kid and having them develop an amazing work ethic (the #1 key to success!) all because they're worried that they'll harm their fragile snowflake's "mental health."


I demand that my kid (who is of fairly average intelligence -- 110 IQ) take the most rigorous classes offered at their school (a "W" school), try their best to get straight As (so far successful except for 1 B sophomore year), participate in a sport, play an instrument, work a (crappy, minimum wage) summer job, and be active in community service. DC doesn't want to do any of this (they are naturally very lazy), but I push them academically and extracurricularly because it forms a well-rounded human being. Not for the sake of college admissions, not for the sake of impressing an AO, but for the sake of developing a work ethic that'll launch them into success in college and beyond. Too many Americans these days lack a strong work ethic.

And for some reason, the parents on here think that all of this will destroy my kid's mental health. The best thing you can do for your kid's mental health is to build grit and resilience, as well as normalize failure. That's why I demand that my kid try their best at activities that are naturally outside of their comfort zone. It seems as though this is a common approach to successful and well-rounded kids; the ones who are the healthiest and happiest in DC's friend group are the ones who are pushed by their parents to do things outside of their comfort zone while normalizing failure and not being the best at everything you do. And the ones in DC's friend group with the most mental health issues are the ones with coddling parents who try to shelter their kid from every potential failure while not pushing them to step outside of their comfort zone.


Did it work? Meaning, did the work ethic last past the time in which they are under your control (in college, there would be monetary control.)



Anonymous
Post 06/28/2022 14:13     Subject: Why are people here so averse to pushing their kids?
I have an awesome work ethic. After working hard for other people for 25 years, I'm still not successful. I'd say the workers, who put forth half the effort, told the boss to eff off and moved on, are doing much better right now than I am.
4 workers didn't show up to work yesterday, but I got blamed for not coming back for 2nd shift to cover for them. I always try to help our, and they got used to it. Work ethic is overrated.
Anonymous
Post 06/28/2022 14:13     Subject: Why are people here so averse to pushing their kids?
I agree, OP. It’s an unpopular opinion for sure, though. Older kids and teens have been busy and productive for generations. Being productive and becoming good at something brings a lot of satisfaction and confidence. I do believe in down time to clear head, think, day dreaming and socialize. That’s also very important.
Anonymous
Post 06/28/2022 14:03     Subject: Re:Why are people here so averse to pushing their kids?
A genuine answer: a lot of us UMC type A people were pushed, and we thought it went badly so we aren't doing it to our kids. Either we burned out, or we burned relationships with our parents, or we simply got to a point where we didn't value the brass ring as much as we value time and health.

There's a really obvious pattern (to the point of stereotype) of striver parents who do well and then let their kids be artists or take a gap year or whatever. It's exactly because of this. I don't know what the next cycle is - will my DD push her kids? Or let them bump along being moderately successful with moderate effort? I suspect it depends on what standard of living she foresees them being able to maintain.
Anonymous
Post 06/28/2022 13:58     Subject: Re:Why are people here so averse to pushing their kids?
I have four adult children of well above average intelligence and privilege. I did have high expectations of them, and in retrospect they were too high. My expectations didn't put their "mental health" at risk, but it did put our relationship at risk. I know what you're thinking -- that's a risk worth taking, because they'll thank you for pushing them when they're adults -- but you need to recognize that there's a thin line between pushing and pushing too hard.

If you push too hard, and your kid doesn't rise to your expectations, they're still likely to end up just fine as adults generally and mental health wise, but not think very well of you as a parent have a strained relationship with you. I'm lucky that that hasn't happened with me, but it easily could have, and it did happen with a lot my kids' friends and their parents.

Your kid is still young, OP. With the benefit of hindsight, I can tell you that most of things that you have outlined in your litany of expectations mean very little to adult success and happiness in the long run. Your strategy is high risk for low reward.

Of course, I don't expect that you'll actually listen to my advice or any of the other sound advice being offered here. Clearly, that's not why you're here.

Anonymous
Post 06/28/2022 13:52     Subject: Why are people here so averse to pushing their kids?
Op, you claim that you have raised a child with an amazing work ethic, but actually, you haven't.

"....DC doesn't want to do any of this (they are naturally very lazy), but I push them...."

The minute that kid is our from under your thumb, the blow back is going to be tragic. You didn't teach them how to have a work ethic, you taught them to fear you.
Anonymous
Post 06/28/2022 13:49     Subject: Re:Why are people here so averse to pushing their kids?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Because my kids were not receptive to "pushing" and it backfired. Maybe your kids will practice the instrument but, mine didn't when they didn't want to play anymore. It was a huge waste of time and money. So that's one reason. Second I realized that my kids are not mini-mes and should have autonomy to chose what they want to do. And I want a relationship with them when they are older.


OP here. My kid was originally not receptive to pushing, but with appropriate punishments for not responding to my pushing (ie: taking away phone privileges, not letting them take Driver's Ed, not letting them meet up with friends on weekends, and the occasionally yelling and fighting), they became receptive. And, IME, so will 99% of kids (barring a learning disorder). Kids WILL have to be receptive if their social life is on the line.


Okay, so you've got it all figured out, and you're really not asking with an open mind or in good faith.
Anonymous
Post 06/28/2022 13:49     Subject: Re:Why are people here so averse to pushing their kids?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Because my kids were not receptive to "pushing" and it backfired. Maybe your kids will practice the instrument but, mine didn't when they didn't want to play anymore. It was a huge waste of time and money. So that's one reason. Second I realized that my kids are not mini-mes and should have autonomy to chose what they want to do. And I want a relationship with them when they are older.


OP here. My kid was originally not receptive to pushing, but with appropriate punishments for not responding to my pushing (ie: taking away phone privileges, not letting them take Driver's Ed, not letting them meet up with friends on weekends, and the occasionally yelling and fighting), they became receptive. And, IME, so will 99% of kids (barring a learning disorder). Kids WILL have to be receptive if their social life is on the line.


Okay. I mean, what do you think is going to happen when your kid moves out? None of that will continue and your relationship will be worse than it otherwise would have been. You think you’ve permanently installed a work ethic in your “naturally lazy” kid but that’s simply not how humans work.

We send our kids to private tutoring in certain subjects btw because we want them to be challenged and fully live up to their potential. But that’s different than what you’re describing which is basically just making your kids life worse and stressful for no reason, at the likely expense of your adult relationship. Here’s a cookie I guess!


Yeah this is my thing. I did some random parenting reading and I have concluded that the only real long-lasting positive impact you can definitely have on your child is positive memories with their parent. You cannot increase an individual’s work ethic with your parenting. You can help them see what they are capable of when they work hard but that doesn’t mean they will do it later. I have actually found that the best way to get my kids to succeed is to get out of their way.
Anonymous
Post 06/28/2022 13:48     Subject: Re:Why are people here so averse to pushing their kids?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Because my kids were not receptive to "pushing" and it backfired. Maybe your kids will practice the instrument but, mine didn't when they didn't want to play anymore. It was a huge waste of time and money. So that's one reason. Second I realized that my kids are not mini-mes and should have autonomy to chose what they want to do. And I want a relationship with them when they are older.


OP here. My kid was originally not receptive to pushing, but with appropriate punishments for not responding to my pushing (ie: taking away phone privileges, not letting them take Driver's Ed, not letting them meet up with friends on weekends, and the occasionally yelling and fighting), they became receptive. And, IME, so will 99% of kids (barring a learning disorder). Kids WILL have to be receptive if their social life is on the line.


So… you’re not actually teaching them to push themselves for their own happiness and self-ambition, you’re just forcing them to. I knew kids like this in college and they tanked playing video games all day because mommy and daddy weren’t always on their butt about doing homework, pushing them all the time. This also breeds a lot of resentment towards parents.

The key is moderation. Some pushing is good. It sounds like you’re doing a very large amount of pushing.

I agree. Nothing about any of this is developing internal motivation, which is what you need to be successful, however you define that, as an adult. Pushing kids from time to time because they, like everyone, sometimes needs a nudge (or a kick in the butt) or some help figuring out how to study/practice/stick with something even when they aren't improving right away, is one thing. Constantly riding them to always work, work, work, and push themselves regardless of their own interests, is another. I knew kids like this, too. They either became total slackers in college, falling apart because no one was structuring their lives this way, or they internalized the idea that their parents only loved and approved of them if they always succeeded at the hardest thing, and struggled with anxiety. They pushed themselves all the time, but got no satisfaction from it, and sometimes just burned out spectacularly. Either way, they tended not to have great relationships with their parents.
Anonymous
Post 06/28/2022 13:48     Subject: Re:Why are people here so averse to pushing their kids?
Congrats on having kids without underlying issues. My mom pushed me in the way you describe. I was an anxious child and I guess she thought what you thought. I just need to step outside my comfort zone, etc. I developed an awful eating disorder. I couldn't control anything so I controlled my food intake. I'm 47 now and still anxious. I still think of every little bite I consume.

I think you need to realize that no everyone has kids where your ideas will turn out well. Thankfully my own teen is not anxious to the degree that I am but will get nervous and embarrassed about mistakes. He got his first job last summer and had a great time but on the last day of the summer, his boss yelled at him in front of his coworkers and guests. He said he tried not to cry because it went on for so long. He ended up walking away. He was humiliated and will only apply to certain types of jobs this summer because of that. If I took away his phone, etc etc to force him to take any job, he wouldn't care. That situation affected him so badly.

Anonymous
Post 06/28/2022 13:48     Subject: Why are people here so averse to pushing their kids?
Anonymous wrote:I posted this as a comment on another thread, but I think it's odd how many posters here are averse to pushing their kid and having them develop an amazing work ethic (the #1 key to success!) all because they're worried that they'll harm their fragile snowflake's "mental health."


I demand that my kid (who is of fairly average intelligence -- 110 IQ) take the most rigorous classes offered at their school (a "W" school), try their best to get straight As (so far successful except for 1 B sophomore year), participate in a sport, play an instrument, work a (crappy, minimum wage) summer job, and be active in community service. DC doesn't want to do any of this (they are naturally very lazy), but I push them academically and extracurricularly because it forms a well-rounded human being. Not for the sake of college admissions, not for the sake of impressing an AO, but for the sake of developing a work ethic that'll launch them into success in college and beyond. Too many Americans these days lack a strong work ethic.

And for some reason, the parents on here think that all of this will destroy my kid's mental health. The best thing you can do for your kid's mental health is to build grit and resilience, as well as normalize failure. That's why I demand that my kid try their best at activities that are naturally outside of their comfort zone. It seems as though this is a common approach to successful and well-rounded kids; the ones who are the healthiest and happiest in DC's friend group are the ones who are pushed by their parents to do things outside of their comfort zone while normalizing failure and not being the best at everything you do. And the ones in DC's friend group with the most mental health issues are the ones with coddling parents who try to shelter their kid from every potential failure while not pushing them to step outside of their comfort zone.


You don't develop a work ethic by being constantly forced to do things. You become a robot just performing the tasks you are told to do. As soon as your DC is no longer being micromanaged every minute under threat of punishment, the "work ethic" will vanish
Anonymous
Post 06/28/2022 13:45     Subject: Re:Why are people here so averse to pushing their kids?
Sounds like you have it all figured out OP. Congrats
Anonymous
Post 06/28/2022 13:41     Subject: Re:Why are people here so averse to pushing their kids?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Because my kids were not receptive to "pushing" and it backfired. Maybe your kids will practice the instrument but, mine didn't when they didn't want to play anymore. It was a huge waste of time and money. So that's one reason. Second I realized that my kids are not mini-mes and should have autonomy to chose what they want to do. And I want a relationship with them when they are older.


OP here. My kid was originally not receptive to pushing, but with appropriate punishments for not responding to my pushing (ie: taking away phone privileges, not letting them take Driver's Ed, not letting them meet up with friends on weekends, and the occasionally yelling and fighting), they became receptive. And, IME, so will 99% of kids (barring a learning disorder). Kids WILL have to be receptive if their social life is on the line.


Okay. I mean, what do you think is going to happen when your kid moves out? None of that will continue and your relationship will be worse than it otherwise would have been. You think you’ve permanently installed a work ethic in your “naturally lazy” kid but that’s simply not how humans work.

We send our kids to private tutoring in certain subjects btw because we want them to be challenged and fully live up to their potential. But that’s different than what you’re describing which is basically just making your kids life worse and stressful for no reason, at the likely expense of your adult relationship. Here’s a cookie I guess!
Anonymous
Post 06/28/2022 13:41     Subject: Re:Why are people here so averse to pushing their kids?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Because my kids were not receptive to "pushing" and it backfired. Maybe your kids will practice the instrument but, mine didn't when they didn't want to play anymore. It was a huge waste of time and money. So that's one reason. Second I realized that my kids are not mini-mes and should have autonomy to chose what they want to do. And I want a relationship with them when they are older.


OP here. My kid was originally not receptive to pushing, but with appropriate punishments for not responding to my pushing (ie: taking away phone privileges, not letting them take Driver's Ed, not letting them meet up with friends on weekends, and the occasionally yelling and fighting), they became receptive. And, IME, so will 99% of kids (barring a learning disorder). Kids WILL have to be receptive if their social life is on the line.


So… you’re not actually teaching them to push themselves for their own happiness and self-ambition, you’re just forcing them to. I knew kids like this in college and they tanked playing video games all day because mommy and daddy weren’t always on their butt about doing homework, pushing them all the time. This also breeds a lot of resentment towards parents.

The key is moderation. Some pushing is good. It sounds like you’re doing a very large amount of pushing.