Anonymous
06/27/2022 23:04
Subject: Theologically speaking, why is abortion so "bad" in Christianity (compared to Judaism, Islam, etc)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The early Catholic church did allow abortion. In 1869, Pope Pius IX declared all abortion murder.
This entirely misstates the case. Since at least the first century, the Church has unwaveringly held procured abortion to be a grave sin. Indeed, one of the earliest distinctions between Christians and non believers was the former’s opposition to the abortion and infanticide practiced by the latter. Theologians may have debated the matter and Popes may have vacillated on the appropriate canonical penalties, but the Church has never, ever permitted abortion.
But, why? The question the OP asked is why? It’s not rooted in scripture.
Anonymous
06/27/2022 23:01
Subject: Re:Theologically speaking, why is abortion so "bad" in Christianity (compared to Judaism, Islam, etc)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:In the 1970s, a political mastermind had the idea to get women and religious conservatives into voting Republican over "killing babies". Before this point, there had of course been stigma for years over unmarried sex and pregnancies, and desperate women made desperate choices. No one had the opinion that abortion was wrong until it was made political.
Look I’m very pro choice but this is… not true. Wisconsin’s abortion ban is from the mid 19th century.
How is that not political?
Your claim was that it was part of a 1970s plot to consolidate certain voters into the Republican Party and until then no one thought it was wrong. That’s provably nonsense.
So your claim is that the US was never political about WOMEN’S rights before 1970?
It was a strategy not a plot. It’s well known strategy for Ronald Reagan.
So which is it, something no one thought was wrong before it became a political bargaining chip, or something as old as misogyny? (It’s the latter but you’re the one who misstated that fact.)
Anonymous
06/27/2022 23:00
Subject: Re:Theologically speaking, why is abortion so "bad" in Christianity (compared to Judaism, Islam, etc)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:In the 1970s, a political mastermind had the idea to get women and religious conservatives into voting Republican over "killing babies". Before this point, there had of course been stigma for years over unmarried sex and pregnancies, and desperate women made desperate choices. No one had the opinion that abortion was wrong until it was made political.
Look I’m very pro choice but this is… not true. Wisconsin’s abortion ban is from the mid 19th century.
OK, I see where I went wrong on this. What I want to say is that, the furor over Roe in the 1970s was manufactured. THEN, it became a way to divide "good Christian women" from the rest. It required them to join the Republican Party, even had her parents been Democrats. It worked like nobody's business .. for white people at the least.
My opinion is that before all that, most people didn't see abortion as killing babies, if they thought of it at all, and if they did, it was a woman's problem.
Anonymous
06/27/2022 23:00
Subject: Re:Theologically speaking, why is abortion so "bad" in Christianity (compared to Judaism, Islam, etc)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:In the 1970s, a political mastermind had the idea to get women and religious conservatives into voting Republican over "killing babies". Before this point, there had of course been stigma for years over unmarried sex and pregnancies, and desperate women made desperate choices. No one had the opinion that abortion was wrong until it was made political.
Look I’m very pro choice but this is… not true. Wisconsin’s abortion ban is from the mid 19th century.
How is that not political?
Your claim was that it was part of a 1970s plot to consolidate certain voters into the Republican Party and until then no one thought it was wrong. That’s provably nonsense.
So your claim is that the US was never political about WOMEN’S rights before 1970?
It was a strategy not a plot. It’s well known strategy for Ronald Reagan.
Anonymous
06/27/2022 22:55
Subject: Re:Theologically speaking, why is abortion so "bad" in Christianity (compared to Judaism, Islam, etc)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:In the 1970s, a political mastermind had the idea to get women and religious conservatives into voting Republican over "killing babies". Before this point, there had of course been stigma for years over unmarried sex and pregnancies, and desperate women made desperate choices. No one had the opinion that abortion was wrong until it was made political.
Look I’m very pro choice but this is… not true. Wisconsin’s abortion ban is from the mid 19th century.
How is that not political?
Your claim was that it was part of a 1970s plot to consolidate certain voters into the Republican Party and until then no one thought it was wrong. That’s provably nonsense.
Anonymous
06/27/2022 22:51
Subject: Re:Theologically speaking, why is abortion so "bad" in Christianity (compared to Judaism, Islam, etc)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:In the 1970s, a political mastermind had the idea to get women and religious conservatives into voting Republican over "killing babies". Before this point, there had of course been stigma for years over unmarried sex and pregnancies, and desperate women made desperate choices. No one had the opinion that abortion was wrong until it was made political.
Look I’m very pro choice but this is… not true. Wisconsin’s abortion ban is from the mid 19th century.
How is that not political?
Anonymous
06/27/2022 22:37
Subject: Re:Theologically speaking, why is abortion so "bad" in Christianity (compared to Judaism, Islam, etc)
Anonymous wrote:In the 1970s, a political mastermind had the idea to get women and religious conservatives into voting Republican over "killing babies". Before this point, there had of course been stigma for years over unmarried sex and pregnancies, and desperate women made desperate choices. No one had the opinion that abortion was wrong until it was made political.
Look I’m very pro choice but this is… not true. Wisconsin’s abortion ban is from the mid 19th century.
Anonymous
06/27/2022 22:36
Subject: Theologically speaking, why is abortion so "bad" in Christianity (compared to Judaism, Islam, etc)
Anonymous wrote:There is no Biblical basis for it; it’s a totally manufactured issue.
+1 I’m a devout Presbyterian and there is absolutely no scriptural basis for the Evangelical hard line. Not any.
Anonymous
06/27/2022 22:31
Subject: Re:Theologically speaking, why is abortion so "bad" in Christianity (compared to Judaism, Islam, etc)
In the 1970s, a political mastermind had the idea to get women and religious conservatives into voting Republican over "killing babies". Before this point, there had of course been stigma for years over unmarried sex and pregnancies, and desperate women made desperate choices. No one had the opinion that abortion was wrong until it was made political.
Anonymous
06/27/2022 22:15
Subject: Theologically speaking, why is abortion so "bad" in Christianity (compared to Judaism, Islam, etc)
Anonymous wrote:“ So, all of this pain and suffering inflicted on women based on one man bucking centuries of belief and practice, hedging his moral bets, and declaring himself the last word on the subject.”
Would that include the pain and suffering inflicted on aborted females? Who frequently are the target of abortion precisely because they are female?
No brain, no pain. Peripheral reflexes don’t count.
Non existence isn’t pain, in fact, it can be a relief. I wish l didn’t exist most of the time.
Anonymous
06/27/2022 20:45
Subject: Theologically speaking, why is abortion so "bad" in Christianity (compared to Judaism, Islam, etc)
“ So, all of this pain and suffering inflicted on women based on one man bucking centuries of belief and practice, hedging his moral bets, and declaring himself the last word on the subject.”
Would that include the pain and suffering inflicted on aborted females? Who frequently are the target of abortion precisely because they are female?
Would that include the pain and suffering inflicted on aborted females? Who frequently are the target of abortion precisely because they are female?
Anonymous
06/27/2022 20:43
Subject: Theologically speaking, why is abortion so "bad" in Christianity (compared to Judaism, Islam, etc)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The early Catholic church did allow abortion. In 1869, Pope Pius IX declared all abortion murder.
He is also the one who established the dogma of Immaculate Conception of Mary on 8 December 1854, and by 1870, he established the dogma of "papal infallibility,” which states that when speaking in terms of Church doctrine, the Pope speaks the truth with certainty. Convenient, isn't it?
His reason: "He believed that while it may not be known when ensoulment occurs, there was the possibility that it happens at conception. Believing it was morally safer to follow this conclusion, he thought all life should be protected from the start of conception. In 1869 he removed the labels of “animated” fetus and “unanimated” fetus and concluded that abortions at any point of gestation were punishable by excommunication." https://embryo.asu.edu/pages/pope-pius-ix-1792-1878
So, all of this pain and suffering inflicted on women based on one man bucking centuries of belief and practice, hedging his moral bets, and declaring himself the last word on the subject.
What does the Immaculate Conception have to do with anything?
Anonymous
06/27/2022 20:42
Subject: Theologically speaking, why is abortion so "bad" in Christianity (compared to Judaism, Islam, etc)
Anonymous wrote:The early Catholic church did allow abortion. In 1869, Pope Pius IX declared all abortion murder.
This entirely misstates the case. Since at least the first century, the Church has unwaveringly held procured abortion to be a grave sin. Indeed, one of the earliest distinctions between Christians and non believers was the former’s opposition to the abortion and infanticide practiced by the latter. Theologians may have debated the matter and Popes may have vacillated on the appropriate canonical penalties, but the Church has never, ever permitted abortion.
Anonymous
06/27/2022 20:34
Subject: Theologically speaking, why is abortion so "bad" in Christianity (compared to Judaism, Islam, etc)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Because it's not actually about religion. It's about something else. Can you think what it might be?
This. People who are connected to the Puritans who hated sex.
Look up “bundling.” Puritan couples used to share a bed before marriage as part of discovering whether they were compatable.
Anonymous
06/27/2022 19:59
Subject: Theologically speaking, why is abortion so "bad" in Christianity (compared to Judaism, Islam, etc)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Because it's not actually about religion. It's about something else. Can you think what it might be?
This. People who are connected to the Puritans who hated sex.
I don’t think so. The puritans practiced abortion; there was nothing wrong with it until quickening. White Evangelicals just want to subjugate women.