Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Belief in God doesn't mean just Christian, right? So the 81% includes other religions that believe in God, but maybe not Jesus?

But it's the Christians (right now) who are driving people of all faiths away from God. Why would anyone want to worship an angry, smitey, bigoted, vengeful God? And that's the picture evangelicals paint of God and of Christ. I hate (there's that word again) it so much. It makes it really difficult for me to comfort the dying when they have been conditioned to believe in such nonsense. The very idea that God could be female, comforting, nurturing, love unconditionally, infinitely patient, all-light, all-love, ....... Those are concepts that seem to be lost in the gospel according to trump.

And yes. I hate it.

You think Christians are driving Jews away from God and Muslims away from Allah? You’re a moron. Sorry. That’s idiotic.

I know they are. I'm an interfaith minister and unfortunately, I hear about it too often. It can make people from any religious background question their faith. This actual came up at a conference I attended several months ago.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While I don’t care whether or not anyone believes in God, I think a belief in the sacred and the divine leads to more openness, humility, and gentle curiosity in the world than not. A wholehearted belief in science is not better, it’s just more valued in a society that lionizes masculine qualities and characteristics and maligns feminine qualities and characteristics.

I’ve long thought the same, pp. Religious belief often leads to humility about our place in the world and our relationships with others. It can also lead to a lifetime of study and openness to challenging ideas.

Wow, I have such an opposite view of this that I actually did laugh out loud to myself when reading your comment. The more religious someone in my wider family circle is, the less open and the more arrogant they seem to be. Truly, some of them think they are one of God's chosen ones who can do no wrong and don't have to listen to anyone else. They are completely closed off to any ideas other than their own. But these people are all Christians. Perhaps people from other religions might not be so afflicted.

I think American Christianity in its current popular iteration is nothing more than thinly veiled white supremacist zealotry. I do not consider it to be even remotely representative of true faith (I am pp of the first post of this subthread). I can only speak for myself, but I am a lifelong seeker: starting in around 6th grade I studied the world religions (Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism) as well as “new age” belief systems. I was agnostic and an atheist for most of my teens and twenties. Now, at 36, I have adopted a belief system that’s little practiced and is very private to me - no one would know I am religious at all. I am intensely curious about and intrigued by our universe and am deeply humbled to have been given the opportunity to live as a human in the western world in 2022. It is a miracle for life to exist at all. I am in awe. I am touched by beauty. I am devastated by violence. All of this springs from a faith in the unseen, in the unseeable. To have faith or not is personal and different for everyone. But I find my life and my journey to be immeasurably enriched by my faith and I wish this richness for others.

It saddens me deeply that, in liberal circles generally, any demonstration of faith is seen almost as an embarrassment. I know. I grew up in DC where religion is very perfunctory or performative, and any emotion or passion regarding as much is out of the question. Most of my friends are atheists or too apathetic to have any opinion at all. I think this is a loss for my friends individually and for society as a whole (I would never say these things out loud, by the way - I know I’ll be judged!). I understand why people don’t have faith and I also understand many of our mainstream religious institutions are unforgivably hypocritical and dishonest). I would love to see a truly inter-faith society, in which those of all belief systems (including those that make no mention of god/the divine) are encouraged to participate in the public discourse on what it means to be alive on earth. Because that’s what everyone is trying to figure out, one way or another.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Belief in God doesn't mean just Christian, right? So the 81% includes other religions that believe in God, but maybe not Jesus?

But it's the Christians (right now) who are driving people of all faiths away from God. Why would anyone want to worship an angry, smitey, bigoted, vengeful God? And that's the picture evangelicals paint of God and of Christ. I hate (there's that word again) it so much. It makes it really difficult for me to comfort the dying when they have been conditioned to believe in such nonsense. The very idea that God could be female, comforting, nurturing, love unconditionally, infinitely patient, all-light, all-love, ....... Those are concepts that seem to be lost in the gospel according to trump.

And yes. I hate it.

You think Christians are driving Jews away from God and Muslims away from Allah? You’re a moron. Sorry. That’s idiotic.

Anonymous wrote:Belief in God doesn't mean just Christian, right? So the 81% includes other religions that believe in God, but maybe not Jesus?

But it's the Christians (right now) who are driving people of all faiths away from God. Why would anyone want to worship an angry, smitey, bigoted, vengeful God? And that's the picture evangelicals paint of God and of Christ. I hate (there's that word again) it so much. It makes it really difficult for me to comfort the dying when they have been conditioned to believe in such nonsense. The very idea that God could be female, comforting, nurturing, love unconditionally, infinitely patient, all-light, all-love, ....... Those are concepts that seem to be lost in the gospel according to trump.

And yes. I hate it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a minister and have been for many, many years. The answer to the question "why" is one I hear almost every single day. "Christians" are driving people away from God in droves. There is no hate quite like Christian hate. And it's really, really sad.

Yet in the other thread you say you “hate” some Christians. This seems to be an obsession of yours, because you’re back repeating the substance again. Physician, heal thyself.

I said I hate hypocrites. And I stand by it. You are oddly hung up on a word. "Hate" is a collection of letters put together by humans. You are assigning it the meaning you choose to. "Hate does not imply that I wish them any harm. It is simply a statement. A word. Nothing more.

Hate: intense or passionate dislike. (dictionary definition). I'm confident that Jesus felt a whole lot of hate when he broke out the whip and started beating the hypocrites with it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While I don’t care whether or not anyone believes in God, I think a belief in the sacred and the divine leads to more openness, humility, and gentle curiosity in the world than not. A wholehearted belief in science is not better, it’s just more valued in a society that lionizes masculine qualities and characteristics and maligns feminine qualities and characteristics.

I’ve long thought the same, pp. Religious belief often leads to humility about our place in the world and our relationships with others. It can also lead to a lifetime of study and openness to challenging ideas.

Wow, I have such an opposite view of this that I actually did laugh out loud to myself when reading your comment. The more religious someone in my wider family circle is, the less open and the more arrogant they seem to be. Truly, some of them think they are one of God's chosen ones who can do no wrong and don't have to listen to anyone else. They are completely closed off to any ideas other than their own. But these people are all Christians. Perhaps people from other religions might not be so afflicted.

Yeah, my Catholic Dad used to joke that you should never, ever engage services from someone who advertises that they're Christian because they'll screw you (like putting the Jesus fish on their HVAC business card). But it's so true. After all Jesus forgives them, right?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yet somehow the other 19% is trying to call the shots and destroy this country

Exactly! How do evangelicals exert so much power over the Republican Party when they are such a minority?

The poll says that 81% still believe in God. I think you misinterpreted that.

Anonymous wrote:Belief in God doesn't mean just Christian, right? So the 81% includes other religions that believe in God, but maybe not Jesus?

And even people who don’t belong to a religion but believe in god.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While I don’t care whether or not anyone believes in God, I think a belief in the sacred and the divine leads to more openness, humility, and gentle curiosity in the world than not. A wholehearted belief in science is not better, it’s just more valued in a society that lionizes masculine qualities and characteristics and maligns feminine qualities and characteristics.

I’ve long thought the same, pp. Religious belief often leads to humility about our place in the world and our relationships with others. It can also lead to a lifetime of study and openness to challenging ideas.

Wow, I have such an opposite view of this that I actually did laugh out loud to myself when reading your comment. The more religious someone in my wider family circle is, the less open and the more arrogant they seem to be. Truly, some of them think they are one of God's chosen ones who can do no wrong and don't have to listen to anyone else. They are completely closed off to any ideas other than their own. But these people are all Christians. Perhaps people from other religions might not be so afflicted.

Belief in God doesn't mean just Christian, right? So the 81% includes other religions that believe in God, but maybe not Jesus?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a minister and have been for many, many years. The answer to the question "why" is one I hear almost every single day. "Christians" are driving people away from God in droves. There is no hate quite like Christian hate. And it's really, really sad.

No, there is no hate like Christian "love".

I hope you get the help you need to stop spewing hate on anonymous fora.

Am I wrong?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a minister and have been for many, many years. The answer to the question "why" is one I hear almost every single day. "Christians" are driving people away from God in droves. There is no hate quite like Christian hate. And it's really, really sad.

No, there is no hate like Christian "love".

I hope you get the help you need to stop spewing hate on anonymous fora.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While I don’t care whether or not anyone believes in God, I think a belief in the sacred and the divine leads to more openness, humility, and gentle curiosity in the world than not. A wholehearted belief in science is not better, it’s just more valued in a society that lionizes masculine qualities and characteristics and maligns feminine qualities and characteristics.

Have you looked around at the religious people (Christians) in America? They are not known for their openness, humility or curiosity.

Stereotyping broad groups of people is another form of hate, bigoted pp.

Anonymous wrote:I'm a minister and have been for many, many years. The answer to the question "why" is one I hear almost every single day. "Christians" are driving people away from God in droves. There is no hate quite like Christian hate. And it's really, really sad.

Yet in the other thread you say you “hate” some Christians. This seems to be an obsession of yours, because you’re back repeating the substance again. Physician, heal thyself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While I don’t care whether or not anyone believes in God, I think a belief in the sacred and the divine leads to more openness, humility, and gentle curiosity in the world than not. A wholehearted belief in science is not better, it’s just more valued in a society that lionizes masculine qualities and characteristics and maligns feminine qualities and characteristics.

Have you looked around at the religious people (Christians) in America? They are not known for their openness, humility or curiosity.

I don’t consider hateful “Christians” to be admirable in any way, nor do I think we should be emulating these people or their belief systems. My comment speaks to the fact that we consider a very narrow belief in god to be the only available way to believe, at the exclusion of innumerable other ways to explore faith - we all lose when this is the case.