Anonymous wrote:NP here but I was also a ballerina and band kid in HS, and I know my parents wished I was more social. (Or they did until my younger sister started HS and they learned the other side of popularity.)

Anyway, one things that really helped me was two things my shy dad told me. One: people like to talk about themselves, so if you ask questions, you don’t have to talk much. Seems obvious now but it was a revelation when I was 14 and I still use the trick.

Two: when I met new people they were awkward. I assumed that meant they didn’t like me, didn’t want to talk to me, so I retreated. My dad pointed out that maybe they were awkward because they were shy too and this we would make good friends! I had honestly not considered that because I was so sure that the awkward silences we’re a verdict on me.

Great tips, thanks for sharing!

NP here but I was also a ballerina and band kid in HS, and I know my parents wished I was more social. (Or they did until my younger sister started HS and they learned the other side of popularity.)

Anyway, one things that really helped me was two things my shy dad told me. One: people like to talk about themselves, so if you ask questions, you don’t have to talk much. Seems obvious now but it was a revelation when I was 14 and I still use the trick.

Two: when I met new people they were awkward. I assumed that meant they didn’t like me, didn’t want to talk to me, so I retreated. My dad pointed out that maybe they were awkward because they were shy too and this we would make good friends! I had honestly not considered that because I was so sure that the awkward silences we’re a verdict on me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, this makes more sense now, OP.

Dance at this level is tough. She’s pursuing an art form which creates beauty by having bodies express emotion by doing almost physically impossible things. It’s not the most relatable experience for most people.

Your DD feels she is shy and probably hopes will somehow see through that- but her peers at school probably see her as beautiful (your words) and consumed by dance (which she is). Her posture, bearing, and probably even how she spends her time- rushing to finish homework during free periods to have time for dance? never have enough time for a school activity?- probably amplify that.

Unfortunately, in a school environment those things inaccurately come across as snobby and aloof! It will be hard to unwind that.

Outward Bound is a brilliant idea. It will force her to define herself in a non-dance context and I would bet she comes out of it with a broader perception of who she is, which can only lead to more confidence and more ways to connect with people in and out of dance. Hopefully that will help her understand what her priorities are and either she will accept the impact of dance on the rest of her life as a worthwhile sacrifice, or she’ll decide to pursue it in a form that allows other parts of her life to breathe a bit, too. Her school is only going to tell her that an all-out sacrifice for dance is the only acceptable answer and anyone who doesn’t do so is less-than. Your job is to make sure she knows anything she does is valid and good.

I think this is spot on. I have a similar DD with an intensive, time-consuming sport (not dance). She is in a small school where she's been for years, so it's not exactly the same as OP, but she still struggles socially sometimes. She's also an introvert by nature. I've told her if she wants to be more social, have more friends, she has to put herself out there. I'm sure the girls at her school have no idea she wants to be more social with them because they think she's too busy, has lots of friends outside of school from her sport, etc. Plus, being very pretty can be intimidating to other girls without a doubt.

OP here. Wow, this is all so true. To the letter. Looking back, I was exactly the same way at her age. Also a dancer but I quit in high school because it was too demanding. It took me years to figure out how intimidating good posture and a non-nonesense carriage can have on others. Learning to smile and overcome my shyness helped a lot. I also learned that I had to approach others because they wouldn’t approach me. Masks have been terrible for DD because they reinforce that barrier. But hopefully all will change in time.

Thanks so much for all the wonderful observations and ideas.

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, this makes more sense now, OP.

Dance at this level is tough. She’s pursuing an art form which creates beauty by having bodies express emotion by doing almost physically impossible things. It’s not the most relatable experience for most people.

Your DD feels she is shy and probably hopes will somehow see through that- but her peers at school probably see her as beautiful (your words) and consumed by dance (which she is). Her posture, bearing, and probably even how she spends her time- rushing to finish homework during free periods to have time for dance? never have enough time for a school activity?- probably amplify that.

Unfortunately, in a school environment those things inaccurately come across as snobby and aloof! It will be hard to unwind that.

Outward Bound is a brilliant idea. It will force her to define herself in a non-dance context and I would bet she comes out of it with a broader perception of who she is, which can only lead to more confidence and more ways to connect with people in and out of dance. Hopefully that will help her understand what her priorities are and either she will accept the impact of dance on the rest of her life as a worthwhile sacrifice, or she’ll decide to pursue it in a form that allows other parts of her life to breathe a bit, too. Her school is only going to tell her that an all-out sacrifice for dance is the only acceptable answer and anyone who doesn’t do so is less-than. Your job is to make sure she knows anything she does is valid and good.

I think this is spot on. I have a similar DD with an intensive, time-consuming sport (not dance). She is in a small school where she's been for years, so it's not exactly the same as OP, but she still struggles socially sometimes. She's also an introvert by nature. I've told her if she wants to be more social, have more friends, she has to put herself out there. I'm sure the girls at her school have no idea she wants to be more social with them because they think she's too busy, has lots of friends outside of school from her sport, etc. Plus, being very pretty can be intimidating to other girls without a doubt.

Ugh, this makes more sense now, OP.

Dance at this level is tough. She’s pursuing an art form which creates beauty by having bodies express emotion by doing almost physically impossible things. It’s not the most relatable experience for most people.

Your DD feels she is shy and probably hopes will somehow see through that- but her peers at school probably see her as beautiful (your words) and consumed by dance (which she is). Her posture, bearing, and probably even how she spends her time- rushing to finish homework during free periods to have time for dance? never have enough time for a school activity?- probably amplify that.

Unfortunately, in a school environment those things inaccurately come across as snobby and aloof! It will be hard to unwind that.

Outward Bound is a brilliant idea. It will force her to define herself in a non-dance context and I would bet she comes out of it with a broader perception of who she is, which can only lead to more confidence and more ways to connect with people in and out of dance. Hopefully that will help her understand what her priorities are and either she will accept the impact of dance on the rest of her life as a worthwhile sacrifice, or she’ll decide to pursue it in a form that allows other parts of her life to breathe a bit, too. Her school is only going to tell her that an all-out sacrifice for dance is the only acceptable answer and anyone who doesn’t do so is less-than. Your job is to make sure she knows anything she does is valid and good.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. The problem with drama is the time commitment that directly conflicts with dance. She dances five days a week and all day on Saturdays. I’ve tried reducing it to create more balance, but that level is required for her to remain in the program. Recreational dance would not work for her, so it’s an all or nothing activity. Drama club requires after school rehearsals, and tech crew is at least 6-8 hours per week (I asked the director). So while it sounds like a perfect fit in many ways, she just can’t make it work logistically.

I suggested debate, yearbook, paper and she’s just not interested. She joined an environmental club this year but attendance was so irregular it wasn’t fun. She’s interested in D&D, but the club disbanded this year due to lack of interest. Now that Stranger Things is back, that might change. Sigh. It’s so frustrating.

She doesn't want to do most things. That's the problem. So, it's not going to get better.

When my kids complain about something, I tell them to come up with an action plan to make it better. I make suggestions.

If they don't want to do any of that, then you just have to live with what you got.

Life lesson.

I'm the PP whose DC went out for debate team. DC now says they are so glad they did it. Still in debate team. Really helped with public speaking.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There must be something about the dancer personality because my shy, pretty 14 yr old daughter is EXACTLY the same as yours, so much so that I could have written every word (she even plays in the band). She has a best friend at school but tends to spend more time with the girls at ballet, for obvious reasons. At her old ballet school she had a group of really close friends in her level but we moved and she hasn't clicked with the girls in her new school in quite the same way.

She's not up for anything that would involve decreasing the time at ballet or that conflicts with class or rehearsals so the choices are limited. Things I've suggested that she hasn't shot down immediately all involve the theater program: working backstage, costume design, volunteering to help teach choreography for the musicals or being a dancer in the cast, etc. I know you said your daughter isn't into drama but there's so much more involved than just acting and they already have those stage skills! But they don't have to be on stage to participate.

My goodness they sound similar. DD switched dance schools too and left a small group behind. Then she had trouble connecting with the new group (anxiety, Covid) and here we are.

I hope things get better for your daughter. Mine decided to stay home and do her home school’s intensive this summer instead of going away; the levels are more mixed together than during the school year and new students tend to come try it out then so we’re both hopeful she meets some new friends. The next opportunity where the girls really get a chance to socialize won’t be until Nutcracker rehearsals start getting long and that seems so far away.

Does she enjoy volunteering? My daughter loves working with animals and little kids— it’s less anxiety-producing than dealing with other teenagers! Maybe that could be something to look into for a club at school?

Anonymous wrote:There must be something about the dancer personality because my shy, pretty 14 yr old daughter is EXACTLY the same as yours, so much so that I could have written every word (she even plays in the band). She has a best friend at school but tends to spend more time with the girls at ballet, for obvious reasons. At her old ballet school she had a group of really close friends in her level but we moved and she hasn't clicked with the girls in her new school in quite the same way.

She's not up for anything that would involve decreasing the time at ballet or that conflicts with class or rehearsals so the choices are limited. Things I've suggested that she hasn't shot down immediately all involve the theater program: working backstage, costume design, volunteering to help teach choreography for the musicals or being a dancer in the cast, etc. I know you said your daughter isn't into drama but there's so much more involved than just acting and they already have those stage skills! But they don't have to be on stage to participate.

My goodness they sound similar. DD switched dance schools too and left a small group behind. Then she had trouble connecting with the new group (anxiety, Covid) and here we are.

OP here. The problem with drama is the time commitment that directly conflicts with dance. She dances five days a week and all day on Saturdays. I’ve tried reducing it to create more balance, but that level is required for her to remain in the program. Recreational dance would not work for her, so it’s an all or nothing activity. Drama club requires after school rehearsals, and tech crew is at least 6-8 hours per week (I asked the director). So while it sounds like a perfect fit in many ways, she just can’t make it work logistically.

I suggested debate, yearbook, paper and she’s just not interested. She joined an environmental club this year but attendance was so irregular it wasn’t fun. She’s interested in D&D, but the club disbanded this year due to lack of interest. Now that Stranger Things is back, that might change. Sigh. It’s so frustrating.

I told my then shy MSer DC to try out for HS debate because DC had no other e.c. DC learned that "shaking knees" is a real thing when DC tried out for debate. DC was sooo nervous.

BUT, DC made it and is no longer so shy, has a core group of friends in HS. Debate really helped DC open up and gain confidence.

I also do think drama would be good. I know OP said your DD said no to it, but maybe find a musical where there is some dancing? IDK... but I find shy kids can blossom on stage. It's scary, but it's really helpful for them to get over the shyness. Does the HS have a drama club?

She needs to get engaged in HS. The best advice we got when my DC was going into HS was to get engaged in clubs. Hence, the Debate Team.

There must be something about the dancer personality because my shy, pretty 14 yr old daughter is EXACTLY the same as yours, so much so that I could have written every word (she even plays in the band). She has a best friend at school but tends to spend more time with the girls at ballet, for obvious reasons. At her old ballet school she had a group of really close friends in her level but we moved and she hasn't clicked with the girls in her new school in quite the same way.

She's not up for anything that would involve decreasing the time at ballet or that conflicts with class or rehearsals so the choices are limited. Things I've suggested that she hasn't shot down immediately all involve the theater program: working backstage, costume design, volunteering to help teach choreography for the musicals or being a dancer in the cast, etc. I know you said your daughter isn't into drama but there's so much more involved than just acting and they already have those stage skills! But they don't have to be on stage to participate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here: DD’s activity is pre-professional dance - 15-20 hours a week. Dance gets a bad rap on this board for being competitive, but DD’s dance school is not the source of her anxiety. If anything, it gives her a stable group of kids with similar interests and lots of time together. She has made a few casual acquaintances, but noone she feel comfortable having over. And it doesn’t help her at school. She also plays in the school band, and we’d hoped that would lead to friendships but it hasn’t. I agree that anxiety is the most significant explanation for her troubles. We really need to find her a good therapist, but her last one was so ineffective, she is skeptical it will help. And the more I push her, the more she retreats and feels I’m judging her. PP asked about appearance and she is beautiful, not just pretty. So I don’t think that’s a barrier, but it does confuse adults who think she can’t have problems connecting with other kids.

Does her high school have a dance team? Both of my daughters joined dance team in middle school and now moving to high school and made WAY WAY more social connections than any of their private dance experiences. She would go into it with more skills, too, which would booster her confidence. I don't know how serious the private dance is to give up, but personally I prefer school based sports.

Her school doesn’t have a dance team and she’s not interested in cheer. Dancing at a high level is super important to her confidence and identity, so I wouldn’t want to take that away from her. It’s so intensive though and really limits her ability to engage at school. But she loves it. I’ve suggested drama because she’s great on stage, but she has refused. So now I’m encouraging her to focus on adding a regular club at school. And therapy.

Anonymous wrote:OP here: DD’s activity is pre-professional dance - 15-20 hours a week. Dance gets a bad rap on this board for being competitive, but DD’s dance school is not the source of her anxiety. If anything, it gives her a stable group of kids with similar interests and lots of time together. She has made a few casual acquaintances, but noone she feel comfortable having over. And it doesn’t help her at school. She also plays in the school band, and we’d hoped that would lead to friendships but it hasn’t. I agree that anxiety is the most significant explanation for her troubles. We really need to find her a good therapist, but her last one was so ineffective, she is skeptical it will help. And the more I push her, the more she retreats and feels I’m judging her. PP asked about appearance and she is beautiful, not just pretty. So I don’t think that’s a barrier, but it does confuse adults who think she can’t have problems connecting with other kids.

Does her high school have a dance team? Both of my daughters joined dance team in middle school and now moving to high school and made WAY WAY more social connections than any of their private dance experiences. She would go into it with more skills, too, which would booster her confidence. I don't know how serious the private dance is to give up, but personally I prefer school based sports.

Anonymous wrote:I have the male version of your daughter. My 9th grader really has a hard time transitioning to high school. I wish I had gotten him help sooner but in March he started seeing a therapist who specializes in cognitive behavioral therapy (cbt). He has specific goals and assignments like the first month was to say hi or something to the student seated next to him in 2 clases. Or ask the person a question. The therapist has given him handouts in catastrophic thinking and he provides examples. In middle school I had him try a therapist who just talked about feelings and he made no progress and didn’t see the point in going.

And he started medication which has taken a while to kick in and to be increased to the correct dosage.

I am really hoping 10th grade will be better.

Thanks for sharing. I hope 10th grade will be better for both of them.