Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Water is wet

Not dry ice

Dry ice is carbon dioxide, not water.

Psychology may not pay off as a degree, but as a parent I wish it did because it is really difficult to find a therapist for my child. There are not enough mental health professionals to go around. I wish nursing paid more so they wouldn't have to close off sections of the hospital due to staffing issues.

This. It is an extremely long and difficult path to become a PSY.D or Ph.D to become a therapist. Acceptance rates are in some cases lower than med school. And we have an enormous mental health crisis that is only getting worse. The psych UG major has become much more challenging, heavy on research. Not sure why people look down upon Psychology.

Not sure either. I just know many go into Psych as an undergrad degree and are not fully aware that with just a BA/BS its nearly impossible to do what they had envisioned doing. So just know that to really use it one needs the advanced degree. It's a valuable minor to get as well--a minor in psych definately helps you work better with people, understand the why's of how people function. That's one reason it's a popular minor, especially for Premed students. I'd argue that engineers should also be required to take a few psych courses. Both of my stem kids have loved their psych courses, one even got a minor in it. The other may take that path as well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a mistake to think of education as training school. Limited thinking brings limited results.

Nobody's making that mistake.
It just that the employers/industries/society that actually pay their $$$ think that the STEM or Business majors has good thinking skills as well as specialized skills.
Market is smarter than what you think

So good thinking skills vs good thinking sills + specialized skills.
Who would you pick?

This is why liberal arts majors (non-stem based) can really help themselves by having a minor in something like CS/Business/finance/econ/data analytics/etc. Get that art history degree because that is what you are passionate about. I'm all for that---we need people in all aspects of life---life would be boring if everyone were a stem major. But also get a marketing minor or Econ minor---pick something that will make you more marketable and help you stand out from other non-stem LA majors. Because the fact is you do have to market yourself differently with a LA degree versus a stem/business degree. Then you have the Critical thinking skills and a bit of specialized skills.
The fact is even with an English degree, there is a good chance you may someday work as a writer for a company and there's a good chance that company has some type of tech focus. So having taken some CS course or business courses will help you.
And if you end up working at an art museum (I'm assuming that's the "dream job" for someone with a BA in Art history), you will still have the business/econ/marketing/cs skills and they will serve you well.

In the same realm, I strongly encourage STEM/business majors to explore LA courses and maybe minor in something with a different slant that gives them more critical thinking skills---that is why Psychology is an extremely popular minor at most schools.

There are plenty of companies that hire "anyone with a BS/BA degree"--they want critical thinkers and know they can train any smart, critical thinker. I can think of one specific in Healthcare/Technology that does just that. The hiring process is rigorous. They hire "trainers" and "Quality managers". Those trainers are training users on software/technology and QMs are essentially end user testing software. More than 50% of those positions are filled with general LA degrees, and many business majors. The company can easily train anyone who is smart, critical thinker, for these positions. College is about learning and growing. But come graduation you have to put those skills to use.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Educated is always better

If it's free.
The question is the education you get there vs $$$ of debt.

If you are rich enough to be careless, you can pass.

It is common sense that English/Dance/Philosophy/etc majors are lower pay than STEM majors. As such a person should especially attend a college they can afford if this is what they plan to major in. The world needs these majors, we need Education majors, we need art history majors. What we don't need is people planning to major in that taking loans of $100K+ to get that degree and then asking for loan forgiveness.

I tell my kids they can major in whatever they want, to follow their passion in life. But to be realistic and know what type of lifestyle will be afforded by that major choice. If you really want a luxury car, a trip to Hawaii/Europe yearly, to eat out 5 nights a week/etc, then being an education major or philosophy major may not be your best choice because it would be hard to support that lifestyle with that degree. If however you are passionate about being a philosophy major or English major, then go for it. But plan accordingly, as you need to work a bit harder to find a job. There are not tons of jobs applications that say "English major wanted" like there is with CS/Engineering. So you have to plan a bit more what you actually want to do with your degree. Also, know what your expecting starting salary will be and don't take more loans than you can afford with that (unless parents are going to help you pay off the loans). Go to a state school that's only $25K/year (or private school that offers you merit so that it's only $25K/year) and work summers and breaks and PT during college to minimize your loan needs. But do not take out $25K of loans each year for a degree that only gives you $25-30K as a starting salary---you will struggle to keep up with payments and actually afford to live.

So you are basically telling them what to do. This is just a passive aggressive way to control what they do, nothing more.

No---I'm not controlling my kids. I just presented them with reality starting at a young age. My kids know how to budget and what living on their own will cost. They are lucky and know we can and will actually pay for whatever degree they want (sending one off to a $80K/year university and let them turn down 2nd choice which was same price but they had a $40K/year merit award---so yes, my kid turned down $160K of merit awards at a university that was nearly similar level to where they are going---because their choice is a much better fit/choice for them--yes they recongnize they are privileged). None of my kids wanted to pursue any of those degrees anyhow--they are following their areas of interest and strengths. I've got a premed major and an engineer and both were geared that way naturally themselves from a young age (especially the engineer---math whizz from a young age and wasn't a fan of English class despite taking AP English).

My kids also know the reality of being a theater/dance/music major. How challenging it is to actually get a job you want (many in those fields end up doing other things or parts of their area that they don't really want to do just to make ends meet). They've watched friends debate these paths; they've watched their teachers live this path. They know most dancers end up teaching even if they just want to be a performer, so if you pick that route, you better enjoy teaching kids, because you are likely to need to do that at some point, as well as what if you get injured or the fact that there are not many 35 yo professional dancer, many are done with their performing careers by that point because it is so hard on your body physically. We would have supported my kid if they wanted to take this path as well, but they smartly (for them---they are good but not that good to have a career in dance) decided to just do dance on the side/maybe minor for the fun of it.

My goal as a parent is to educate my kids about everything in life. That includes preparing them to be a fully self functioning adult. While I can afford to help my kids with life (and will happily do it as needed), it is really much better for their self esteem if they are able to finish college and be able to function fully on their own. Just like I read to my kid when they were little and played with them and held conversation (age appropriate developmental activities), as they got older, I realized its my job to also teach them all about life, including the not so pleasant parts like all the bills and realities of being a fully functioning adult entails.

However, I did present my kids with the realities of budgeting in life, the costs of college, what student loans mean (despite the fact we wont require our kids to take any), what starting salaries are so they can see that their career choice does determine what "extras" they can have in life. It's called reality. If my kid wants to be a theater major or dance major or art history major they can choose that path. But I want them to go in knowing reality and what that means for their future. If you are only making $35K/year, it's difficult to afford a new car payment and insurance, a nicer apartment without a roommate, to save for a house downpayment, to save for retirement, to pay for daycare, kids activities, etc. If more parents looked at reality and had discussions with their kids, perhaps we wouldn't have so many people with over $100K in student loans and a job that only pays them $35K/year complaining they can't afford their loans. If they had stepped back, taken off the rose colored glasses and researched just a little bit, they would have realized that they can still do what they want in life, but it would be much easier on them if they had attended an instate school or taken the CC route and then onto 2 years to finish their degree.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Water is wet

Not dry ice

Dry ice is carbon dioxide, not water.

Psychology may not pay off as a degree, but as a parent I wish it did because it is really difficult to find a therapist for my child. There are not enough mental health professionals to go around. I wish nursing paid more so they wouldn't have to close off sections of the hospital due to staffing issues.

Well to do what you want with psychology degree that needs to be at least a masters and really a PHD. THat's the issue with a psych degree is that the BS/BA doesn't really allow most to work at the level they want--you need the advanced degree to be a therapist.

Furthermore, after all the years schooling and PhD, average salary for psychologist is relatively bad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Water is wet

Not dry ice

Dry ice is carbon dioxide, not water.

Psychology may not pay off as a degree, but as a parent I wish it did because it is really difficult to find a therapist for my child. There are not enough mental health professionals to go around. I wish nursing paid more so they wouldn't have to close off sections of the hospital due to staffing issues.

Well to do what you want with psychology degree that needs to be at least a masters and really a PHD. THat's the issue with a psych degree is that the BS/BA doesn't really allow most to work at the level they want--you need the advanced degree to be a therapist.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a mistake to think of education as training school. Limited thinking brings limited results.

Nobody's making that mistake.
It just that the employers/industries/society that actually pay their $$$ think that the STEM or Business majors has good thinking skills as well as specialized skills.
Market is smarter than what you think

So good thinking skills vs good thinking sills + specialized skills.
Who would you pick?

Says the person with terrible grammar/writing skills.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://richmond.com/news/local/education/some-college-degrees-in-virginia-never-pay-off-others-provide-an-immediate-return/article_2c73cc6f-c508-51c0-8fb4-7960bd1402dc.htm

Not a news, but specifically for VA schools.

Of course CS is King.
Good luck to humanties folks such as philosophy, English, Psychology, etc. as well as dance, fine art, drama, etc.

Hasn't this always been the case? I mean, CS would have been Engineering in general, say 20 years ago.. I can't recall a time when "philosophy, English, Psychology, etc. as well as dance, fine art, drama, etc." were considered hot..

English & Psychology are the back up degrees for kids that couldn't hack more demanding programs. The kids that fall back on those programs are generally lower performers and lower curve for those degrees.

I was a professor in a STEM field and I remember once when I taught a kind of Gen Ed class in the field, one of the students was a history major. This student's writing ability blew me away compared to most of the typical kids in the STEM classes. I do think there is a place for the skills that are developed by the humanities majors.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Water is wet

Not dry ice

Dry ice is carbon dioxide, not water.

Psychology may not pay off as a degree, but as a parent I wish it did because it is really difficult to find a therapist for my child. There are not enough mental health professionals to go around. I wish nursing paid more so they wouldn't have to close off sections of the hospital due to staffing issues.

This. It is an extremely long and difficult path to become a PSY.D or Ph.D to become a therapist. Acceptance rates are in some cases lower than med school. And we have an enormous mental health crisis that is only getting worse. The psych UG major has become much more challenging, heavy on research. Not sure why people look down upon Psychology.

Anonymous wrote:So basically everyone is just going to end up working for a tech company anyway no matter what they study or are actually interested in? Psych majors so user experience and teacher do training and artists make graphics? Is that really all we are building in this world? Honestly that’s kinda depressing.

If you want to make a living.
There are always hobbies too for fun.

Anonymous wrote:It’s a mistake to think of education as training school. Limited thinking brings limited results.

Nobody's making that mistake.
It just that the employers/industries/society that actually pay their $$$ think that the STEM or Business majors has good thinking skills as well as specialized skills.
Market is smarter than what you think

So good thinking skills vs good thinking sills + specialized skills.
Who would you pick?

So basically everyone is just going to end up working for a tech company anyway no matter what they study or are actually interested in? Psych majors so user experience and teacher do training and artists make graphics? Is that really all we are building in this world? Honestly that’s kinda depressing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Educated is always better

If it's free.
The question is the education you get there vs $$$ of debt.

If you are rich enough to be careless, you can pass.

It is common sense that English/Dance/Philosophy/etc majors are lower pay than STEM majors. As such a person should especially attend a college they can afford if this is what they plan to major in. The world needs these majors, we need Education majors, we need art history majors. What we don't need is people planning to major in that taking loans of $100K+ to get that degree and then asking for loan forgiveness.

I tell my kids they can major in whatever they want, to follow their passion in life. But to be realistic and know what type of lifestyle will be afforded by that major choice. If you really want a luxury car, a trip to Hawaii/Europe yearly, to eat out 5 nights a week/etc, then being an education major or philosophy major may not be your best choice because it would be hard to support that lifestyle with that degree. If however you are passionate about being a philosophy major or English major, then go for it. But plan accordingly, as you need to work a bit harder to find a job. There are not tons of jobs applications that say "English major wanted" like there is with CS/Engineering. So you have to plan a bit more what you actually want to do with your degree. Also, know what your expecting starting salary will be and don't take more loans than you can afford with that (unless parents are going to help you pay off the loans). Go to a state school that's only $25K/year (or private school that offers you merit so that it's only $25K/year) and work summers and breaks and PT during college to minimize your loan needs. But do not take out $25K of loans each year for a degree that only gives you $25-30K as a starting salary---you will struggle to keep up with payments and actually afford to live.

So you are basically telling them what to do. This is just a passive aggressive way to control what they do, nothing more.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Water is wet

Not dry ice

Dry ice is carbon dioxide, not water.

Psychology may not pay off as a degree, but as a parent I wish it did because it is really difficult to find a therapist for my child. There are not enough mental health professionals to go around. I wish nursing paid more so they wouldn't have to close off sections of the hospital due to staffing issues.

Anonymous wrote:Water is wet

Not dry ice

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://richmond.com/news/local/education/some-college-degrees-in-virginia-never-pay-off-others-provide-an-immediate-return/article_2c73cc6f-c508-51c0-8fb4-7960bd1402dc.htm

Not a news, but specifically for VA schools.

Of course CS is King.
Good luck to humanties folks such as philosophy, English, Psychology, etc. as well as dance, fine art, drama, etc.

Hasn't this always been the case? I mean, CS would have been Engineering in general, say 20 years ago.. I can't recall a time when "philosophy, English, Psychology, etc. as well as dance, fine art, drama, etc." were considered hot..

English & Psychology are the back up degrees for kids that couldn't hack more demanding programs. The kids that fall back on those programs are generally lower performers and lower curve for those degrees.

You live in a weird, sad bubble.

English and psychology degrees are for students interested in English and Psychology. We need bright educated people in all fields.

I do agree that students need to be aware of how society values their intended field of study when it comes to loans and life goals. Not everyone wants to sell out to tech careers just for money. It's about interests not potential earnings.