Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not surprising with millennials need to constantly keep up with the Jones’s. That’s why a high income means nothing if you can’t even balance a checkbook.

What a joke. I am 37. My parents live in a 55+ community. The level of "keep up with the Joneses is way higher among that set. The term originated in the early 1900s. This is not a Millennial-specific issue.

It’s not a joke. I’m 35. I have so many friends my age who buy the latest Audi or Tesla or Rolex and wonder why they have no savings and expect Biden to pay back their student loans. People just don’t know how to budget at all. I see it all the time.

Wow y'all are really stretching the definition of paycheck to paycheck. That means NOT SAVING and not having enough slack in your budget to deal with an unexpected bill. If you have a decent emergency fund or could briefly reduce regular savings to cover it, this does not mean you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't forget student loan payments. For years we put everything extra at the end of the month towards paying them off early.

This. Millennials are the first generation that really experienced astronomical university and graduate school tuitions. Between student loans and housing inflation, I'd expect families not savings as much in traditional savings accounts to become closer to the norm.

No they did not. My 30 year old nephew went to same college my daughter goes to and tuition has doubled since he went. He graduated in 2011. His school froze increases in 2008-2011 due to financial crisis and from 2012 to 2019 really jacked them up. That school also froze tuition in 2020 and 2021 and now jacking them up again.

OOS public schools are now 60k and schools line Syracuse, Villanova and Fordham are projecting 100k a year by senior year for current freshman,

Educational inflation started to diverge from the CPI in the 90s, but during the 2000s (i.e. when Millennials started attending school) is when it truly took off. Your daughter has it worse than your nephew, but he also had it way worse than those who attended 20 years before. If it makes you feel better similar articles will probably be written about your daughter's generation too

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not the same as lower-income people living paycheck to paycheck. These people are reporting having no money left at the end of the pay period after paying mortgages, paying their CC bill in full, and saving for retirement.

"Living paycheck-to-paycheck doesn’t necessarily mean hardship, and LendingClub makes the distinction between those can pay their bills easily and those who can’t. Only a fraction of high earners -- roughly one in ten -- reported issues covering all their household expenses in April, according to the survey."

You are correct that it dovetails neatly with the DCUM "I feel so poor after I purposely spend all my money on expensive bills I chose to take on and also save more than most people make in a year" posts.

The thing is if they lose their job they’re in a really bad situation.

Don’t see it much different than lower income people living paycheck to paycheck.

Your first comment really reflects the behavior so many umc people have. Umc people are closer to low income people than the wealthy and affluent.

Then you are an . . . well, never mind. I'm trying to be kinder on DCUM.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not the same as lower-income people living paycheck to paycheck. These people are reporting having no money left at the end of the pay period after paying mortgages, paying their CC bill in full, and saving for retirement.

"Living paycheck-to-paycheck doesn’t necessarily mean hardship, and LendingClub makes the distinction between those can pay their bills easily and those who can’t. Only a fraction of high earners -- roughly one in ten -- reported issues covering all their household expenses in April, according to the survey."

You are correct that it dovetails neatly with the DCUM "I feel so poor after I purposely spend all my money on expensive bills I chose to take on and also save more than most people make in a year" posts.

The thing is if they lose their job they’re in a really bad situation.

Don’t see it much different than lower income people living paycheck to paycheck.

Your first comment really reflects the behavior so many umc people have. Umc people are closer to low income people than the wealthy and affluent.

That totally depends though. sure if literally all your savings goes into a tax-deferred retirement vehicle, but nobody is forcing anyone to do that. I am just below $250HHI and we split our retirement savings - 2/3rds into 401Ks and 1/3 into a regular investment account. If things go south, we can easily access the money in our brokerage account and if they don't we only lose out on some minor tax savings.

I didn't read the article, but one thing I haven't seen is that childcare costs exceed a lot of people's rents/mortgages. This is not just in places like DC. When we had 2 kids in daycare 8 or so years ago, our childcare was several hundreds more than our mortgage. It was not great time for us financially.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We live "paycheck to paycheck", meaning that we "spend" all that we get in for the most part. Most people do budget that way. But our "spending" isn't just spending. It includes, like a PP said, putting $ in 401ks, college funds, and mortgage payment for our house (in which we have a decent amount of equity.

This is very different than someone who has no cushion or ability to get $$ if they need it.

Same. We have a default budget that results in us almost running out of money between pay periods. DH is a spender and he's always going to spend what's in his or our checking account, so we use the "pay yourself first" approach and money goes directly from paychecks to 401k, 529 plan and brokerage account, then what's left over goes to checking and inevitably gets spent.

We do the same. The checking account has a 5k cushion, but we spend down to around 5k every month. Paychecks go straight to 401k, brokerage, and 529s

$5k in your bank account is not "almost running out of money."

I'm really curious how this study was conducted, because I think the more interesting issue here is how people define and perceive themselves and their finances. People see clearly using the same terminology to define wildly different situations.

Yup. I also find this part of the article really interesting. People are not as doom & gloom about their financial situation as pundits are saying on the media:

About 78% of Americans said they were doing okay financially or living comfortably -- the highest share since the Fed began running the annual survey in 2013.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't forget student loan payments. For years we put everything extra at the end of the month towards paying them off early.

This. Millennials are the first generation that really experienced astronomical university and graduate school tuitions. Between student loans and housing inflation, I'd expect families not savings as much in traditional savings accounts to become closer to the norm.

No they did not. My 30 year old nephew went to same college my daughter goes to and tuition has doubled since he went. He graduated in 2011. His school froze increases in 2008-2011 due to financial crisis and from 2012 to 2019 really jacked them up. That school also froze tuition in 2020 and 2021 and now jacking them up again.

OOS public schools are now 60k and schools line Syracuse, Villanova and Fordham are projecting 100k a year by senior year for current freshman,

Damn! I've already told my kids that it'll be 2 years of community college before transferring to a 4 year college.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't forget student loan payments. For years we put everything extra at the end of the month towards paying them off early.

This. Millennials are the first generation that really experienced astronomical university and graduate school tuitions. Between student loans and housing inflation, I'd expect families not savings as much in traditional savings accounts to become closer to the norm.

No they did not. My 30 year old nephew went to same college my daughter goes to and tuition has doubled since he went. He graduated in 2011. His school froze increases in 2008-2011 due to financial crisis and from 2012 to 2019 really jacked them up. That school also froze tuition in 2020 and 2021 and now jacking them up again.

OOS public schools are now 60k and schools line Syracuse, Villanova and Fordham are projecting 100k a year by senior year for current freshman,

Anonymous wrote:Worth noting this article is about millennial households earning 250k, not individuals

Well damn. That’s even worse lmao

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We live "paycheck to paycheck", meaning that we "spend" all that we get in for the most part. Most people do budget that way. But our "spending" isn't just spending. It includes, like a PP said, putting $ in 401ks, college funds, and mortgage payment for our house (in which we have a decent amount of equity.

This is very different than someone who has no cushion or ability to get $$ if they need it.

Same. We have a default budget that results in us almost running out of money between pay periods. DH is a spender and he's always going to spend what's in his or our checking account, so we use the "pay yourself first" approach and money goes directly from paychecks to 401k, 529 plan and brokerage account, then what's left over goes to checking and inevitably gets spent.

We do the same. The checking account has a 5k cushion, but we spend down to around 5k every month. Paychecks go straight to 401k, brokerage, and 529s

$5k in your bank account is not "almost running out of money."

I'm really curious how this study was conducted, because I think the more interesting issue here is how people define and perceive themselves and their finances. People see clearly using the same terminology to define wildly different situations.

Yes, this is hilarious. A 5k cushion is amazing! You just have 5k you can leave in your checking account and not worry about earning any money off of, just in case? You're steady.

Back when I was working but broke, I regularly played the "how can I arrange my bills so that I don't get an overdraft fee before payday" game. That's what it is to live paycheck to paycheck. You're always like a $5 debit card charge away from getting hit with $150 in overdraft fees because you forgot your cell phone bill get's paid on the 12th, not the 15th.

Anonymous wrote:This is not the same as lower-income people living paycheck to paycheck. These people are reporting having no money left at the end of the pay period after paying mortgages, paying their CC bill in full, and saving for retirement.

"Living paycheck-to-paycheck doesn’t necessarily mean hardship, and LendingClub makes the distinction between those can pay their bills easily and those who can’t. Only a fraction of high earners -- roughly one in ten -- reported issues covering all their household expenses in April, according to the survey."

You are correct that it dovetails neatly with the DCUM "I feel so poor after I purposely spend all my money on expensive bills I chose to take on and also save more than most people make in a year" posts.

This, thank you. We have a family of 3 on 130k (in DC) and we don't live "paycheck to paycheck" but, yeah, pretty much all of our income is spoken for the moment it comes in because we designate money for retirement, cash savings, and 529. However I still don't think of us as paycheck to paycheck because (1) we have a ton of savings so if something went wrong we'd be okay -- in addition to retirement and other investments, we have about 80k in a combo of emergency funds and short term investments; and (2) we get cash infusions in the form of tax refunds (we own so it's substantial) and the occasional other windfall (like we randomly got 10k when my DH's dad died and his mom was redistributing her savings). A lot of those cash infusions go straight to retirement/savings as well, but it also enables us to do things like buy a piece of furniture without dipping into savings, or go on a vacation.

So yeah, not paycheck to paycheck. I actually did live that way for several years when I was young. Making minimum wage with no sick or vacation leave (so taking time off meant losing income), zero family support, and no savings built up. It was precarious and I'm grateful I only did it for a few years before I borrowed money for grad school and got on a more financially stable path. People who do that with kids and into middle age with health issues, or supporting/caring for older family members -- it's a totally different deal.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We live "paycheck to paycheck", meaning that we "spend" all that we get in for the most part. Most people do budget that way. But our "spending" isn't just spending. It includes, like a PP said, putting $ in 401ks, college funds, and mortgage payment for our house (in which we have a decent amount of equity.

This is very different than someone who has no cushion or ability to get $$ if they need it.

Same. We have a default budget that results in us almost running out of money between pay periods. DH is a spender and he's always going to spend what's in his or our checking account, so we use the "pay yourself first" approach and money goes directly from paychecks to 401k, 529 plan and brokerage account, then what's left over goes to checking and inevitably gets spent.

We do the same. The checking account has a 5k cushion, but we spend down to around 5k every month. Paychecks go straight to 401k, brokerage, and 529s

$5k in your bank account is not "almost running out of money."

I'm really curious how this study was conducted, because I think the more interesting issue here is how people define and perceive themselves and their finances. People see clearly using the same terminology to define wildly different situations.

Anonymous wrote:Not surprising with millennials need to constantly keep up with the Jones’s. That’s why a high income means nothing if you can’t even balance a checkbook.

What a joke. I am 37. My parents live in a 55+ community. The level of "keep up with the Joneses is way higher among that set. The term originated in the early 1900s. This is not a Millennial-specific issue.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We live "paycheck to paycheck", meaning that we "spend" all that we get in for the most part. Most people do budget that way. But our "spending" isn't just spending. It includes, like a PP said, putting $ in 401ks, college funds, and mortgage payment for our house (in which we have a decent amount of equity.

This is very different than someone who has no cushion or ability to get $$ if they need it.

Same. We have a default budget that results in us almost running out of money between pay periods. DH is a spender and he's always going to spend what's in his or our checking account, so we use the "pay yourself first" approach and money goes directly from paychecks to 401k, 529 plan and brokerage account, then what's left over goes to checking and inevitably gets spent.

We do the same. The checking account has a 5k cushion, but we spend down to around 5k every month. Paychecks go straight to 401k, brokerage, and 529s