There are 4 ways that a college can "use" a language for academic credentials:

1. Accepting it for HS study as part of the admissions qualifications to the college.
2. Accepting a placement test in that language in order to fulfill requirements at the college.
3. Teaching that language at the college but not allowing it to fulfill certain requirements.
4. Teaching that language at the college and allowing it to fulfill all requirements.

A college does not have to teach a language at all in order to use it as described under #1 and #2. For #3, sometimes budget stands in the way (for example, college requires 4 semesters of the same language for graduation, but only teaches 2 semesters of ASL, thereby making ASL by default only a free elective).

In other words, #1 and #2 above represent cases of philosophical advocacy. The leap to #3 or #4 takes money.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue is that language has four elements--comprehension, speaking, reading and writing. ASL only has two of those elements. You can't really read or write in ASL. That is why it does not satisfy the FL requirement at a lot colleges.

I grew up in a deaf family so have been signing since birth. I also took Spanish in high school and college. As a native English speaker, I would argue that ASL is a much easier language to learn than Spanish, French, etc. because of the reading/writing.

Whether or not ASL is more useful than a foreign language is another issue but that's very dependent on the person. Of course, ASL was essential to me in the first 35 years of my life but now that my deaf family members have passed away, I find that knowing even basic Spanish is much more useful.

I think it is interesting that you say a language has 4 elements. I looked up the definition of a language. There are several, but I have never seen four elements required. ASL would not meet every definition, but it would meet several. I would argue there is not a universal definition of a language requiring these four elements. Under many of the definitions I saw, ASL was every bit as much of a Language as French. Would you argue that indigenous languages with no written complement are not languages? I believe your definition is too narrow and European focused.

Look, I don't care if schools start accepting ASL as a foreign language or not. I hope they do. I'm just telling you the reasoning behind why some schools don't accept the credits to meet the language requirement. But I didn't make up the elements of language learning:
https://preply.com/en/blog/the-main-4-skills-to-learn-a-language/

Anonymous wrote:The issue is that language has four elements--comprehension, speaking, reading and writing. ASL only has two of those elements. You can't really read or write in ASL. That is why it does not satisfy the FL requirement at a lot colleges.

I grew up in a deaf family so have been signing since birth. I also took Spanish in high school and college. As a native English speaker, I would argue that ASL is a much easier language to learn than Spanish, French, etc. because of the reading/writing.

Whether or not ASL is more useful than a foreign language is another issue but that's very dependent on the person. Of course, ASL was essential to me in the first 35 years of my life but now that my deaf family members have passed away, I find that knowing even basic Spanish is much more useful.

I think it is interesting that you say a language has 4 elements. I looked up the definition of a language. There are several, but I have never seen four elements required. ASL would not meet every definition, but it would meet several. I would argue there is not a universal definition of a language requiring these four elements. Under many of the definitions I saw, ASL was every bit as much of a Language as French. Would you argue that indigenous languages with no written complement are not languages? I believe your definition is too narrow and European focused.

Anonymous wrote:The issue is that language has four elements--comprehension, speaking, reading and writing. ASL only has two of those elements. You can't really read or write in ASL. That is why it does not satisfy the FL requirement at a lot colleges.

I grew up in a deaf family so have been signing since birth. I also took Spanish in high school and college. As a native English speaker, I would argue that ASL is a much easier language to learn than Spanish, French, etc. because of the reading/writing.

Whether or not ASL is more useful than a foreign language is another issue but that's very dependent on the person. Of course, ASL was essential to me in the first 35 years of my life but now that my deaf family members have passed away, I find that knowing even basic Spanish is much more useful.

Utility is subjective.
So is ease. (And I'd argue that "ease" is irrelevant. Some people just don't have the aptitude for it. Some do. As with any other subject).

I took to foreign language easily and did well. I could write it, understand it, and speak it pretty well. I have not used it to this day. For anything. Even in the countries that speak the language, everyone speaks English.

The issue is that language has four elements--comprehension, speaking, reading and writing. ASL only has two of those elements. You can't really read or write in ASL. That is why it does not satisfy the FL requirement at a lot colleges.

I grew up in a deaf family so have been signing since birth. I also took Spanish in high school and college. As a native English speaker, I would argue that ASL is a much easier language to learn than Spanish, French, etc. because of the reading/writing.

Whether or not ASL is more useful than a foreign language is another issue but that's very dependent on the person. Of course, ASL was essential to me in the first 35 years of my life but now that my deaf family members have passed away, I find that knowing even basic Spanish is much more useful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm really surprised that there seem to be a good number of schools that do not offer this in satisfaction of their language requirement. Has anyone ever attempted to advocate that ASL be permitted to be used for that? Results? And yes, I mean the student not me.

I never thought about it but your argument has merit. From what I have heard about ASL it really should be considered. I would push for it, OP. Perhaps some of the non-profits and associations for the blind would be willing to help you?

You mean Deaf.

Anonymous wrote:I'm really surprised that there seem to be a good number of schools that do not offer this in satisfaction of their language requirement. Has anyone ever attempted to advocate that ASL be permitted to be used for that? Results? And yes, I mean the student not me.

I never thought about it but your argument has merit. From what I have heard about ASL it really should be considered. I would push for it, OP. Perhaps some of the non-profits and associations for the blind would be willing to help you?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:14:04/18:18 again - that said - I know HS students with no learning disabilities who chose the ASL route so I was answering OP with that in mind.

OP here. This is my DC. No learning disability. Just thinks ASL is more useful for her career path. I'm not worried about it for getting into college. I'm more interested in whether, and why not, schools do not allow ASL to satisfy the language requirement? I took 3 years in HS + 2 years of college French (and was quite good at it) but have not used it a single day since I took my last class. Unless it would make sense and is useful for a chosen major (e.g., business, international, and maybe some others) this seems like a silly distinction to make and, thus, a silly reqt. I'd be most kids outside those majors don't use those 2 years of (spanish/italian/french/etc.)

OP - I get your point.... but if you are at a liberal arts school that requires 2 years language, I don't see how that's any different than requiring other core classes for exposure. I had to take language, science, philosophy, history despite being in a business program. Just because I don't use that science in my life doesn't mean it wasn't worth taking. I'd assume this is more of an issue for liberal arts. Do big state universities have such a requirement? I haven't paid attention because our DC wants to continue with Spanish in college.

I hear what you're saying and that is their right to mandate. But it seems arbitrary to me. And a little offensive, if I'm being honest. ASL is somehow less of a language b/c there is no writing? I worked with a significant population of deaf adults at one of my prior jobs and I think they'd be interested in hearing the rationale for that opinion . . . .