Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only parents who think St Olaf and Carleton students are on the same page intellectually are those who know their kids would never get into Carleton. Stop kidding yourselves. Yes, St Olaf is a good school -- but it ain't in Carleton's league and never will be.

So rude. Do better.

--Carleton grad

And you know I'm right.

-- Not a Carleton grad

PP with kid at St. Olaf. He might have gotten into Carleton, but didn't even look at it because we couldn't afford it. Both excellent schools for different reasons. If your high stats kid is looking for a safety that they could love, and you can easily afford, St. Olaf might be worth a second look. It's a pretty special place. Do Grinell and Carleton do better for grad school placements in my kids major? Yep. But not by much. https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-phd-programs

Anonymous wrote:The only parents who think St Olaf and Carleton students are on the same page intellectually are those who know their kids would never get into Carleton. Stop kidding yourselves. Yes, St Olaf is a good school -- but it ain't in Carleton's league and never will be.

So rude. Do better.

--Carleton grad

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Carleton is more like Grinnell - really super liberal and intense academics (but in a cool midwestern way, bien sur)

St. Olaf is friendlier, no less smart but less intense about it, fewer east coasters

They have a really different vibe -your kid will like one or the other, but prob not both.

Depends on how you define "no less smart." The stats for entering students suggest otherwise.

There's a reason why Carleton is ranked 9th and St Olaf 62nd.

Grades and standardized test scores are not direct assessments of intelligence. When are DCUMers going to get that.

So true. Especially when people with money hire tutors and coaches so their already enriched kids can score even higher. People game the tests. Everyone knows that, but then they pretend that test scores somehow show that their kid is smarter than the next kid.

On top of that, test scores and grades of the incoming freshmen tell us nothing about what the educational experience will be like once students get there. That’s what people should be paying attention to. The rankings lay absolutely no attention to what kids actually do for 4 years once they get on campus because there’s no way to boil that down into a statistic that you can run through a computer.

The whole idea of “ranking” schools is completely ridiculous. People with too much testosterone treat college selection like they treat March Madness.

Ok.

Carleton is still a better school.

The only parents who think St Olaf and Carleton students are on the same page intellectually are those who know their kids would never get into Carleton. Stop kidding yourselves. Yes, St Olaf is a good school -- but it ain't in Carleton's league and never will be.

My son attends St. Olaf and he adores it. Earnest is a good description of the kids I know who thrive there. He's doing the Enduring Questions program that they have and it's a ton of work, but he's met super bright, interesting kids in it, so it's a self selected group. For context, there was a 2-3 week period where he had to read Beowulf, the Confessions of St. Augustine and also the Koran, and 2-3 essays thrown in. Lots of reading this year, from Nichomachean Ethics, to Ibn Tufail, to Martin Luther. This program reminded him a bit of St. John's college and that appealed to him. Yes, it's a Lutheran school, with 2 course requirements in religion, but that's the extent of it. Not particularly religious otherwise.

He's a math and bio double major, with a neuroscience concentration. He plans to study abroad and was attracted to the school because of this. Merit awards and housing stipends can be used abroad as well. He could have gone elsewhere, but it's hard to argue with 30K in merit awards and stellar programs in his major. Kids do quite well for grad school in these majors, which is his plan. As mentioned, the music program is top notch as well. So lots of band and choir geeks. And you don't need to be a music major to participate. Yes, it's a dry campus, which just pushes the drinking out of sight, but there's still plenty of it. Winter hasn't seemed to bother him, but he did have to buy better boots.

Carleton is a top-notch school, very hard to get into, similar to Grinnell. Really strong in the sciences.

St. Olaf's is less selective but still a strong school. It has a very calm, friendly, sort of earnest vibe to it. It's a 'damp' campus meaning there's a lot less alcohol consumption than the typical school which may be a + or -. Macalester is another LAC in the area that you might also consider--fits in selectivity between the two, is in a more urban environment and attracts a slightly artsier group of students. Solid academics across the board.

I hear St. Olaf and can't help but think of Rose from Golden Girls ....RIP Betty White

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great schools but MN gets 5-6 months of winter (with at least 2 of those months regularly getting below zero) so make sure your kid is ok w that.

On the bright side, students from Carleton are home from Thanksgiving through New Year's, which shortens winter by a few weeks. Then winter term, lots of students embrace getting outside and enjoying cross country skiing in the campus arboretum or ice skating and playing broomball on the outdoor ice rink in the middle of campus. Almost all students live on campus, so they don't have to deal with shoveling snow or scraping off cars.

Agree. Fall term was beautiful and I don't recall much/any snow before we left for Thanksgiving. Winter term starts early January and was cold and snowy but that was a feature, not a bug. And spring term is late March to early June and while there can be some late snow, it's usually springy/summery in spring term. So really more like 3 months of winter, with a few cold weeks in April. Back in my day there were sub zero days in winter, but there are far fewer of them now. Honestly not much different than going to college in New England.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Carleton is more like Grinnell - really super liberal and intense academics (but in a cool midwestern way, bien sur)

St. Olaf is friendlier, no less smart but less intense about it, fewer east coasters

They have a really different vibe -your kid will like one or the other, but prob not both.

Depends on how you define "no less smart." The stats for entering students suggest otherwise.

There's a reason why Carleton is ranked 9th and St Olaf 62nd.

Grades and standardized test scores are not direct assessments of intelligence. When are DCUMers going to get that.

So true. Especially when people with money hire tutors and coaches so their already enriched kids can score even higher. People game the tests. Everyone knows that, but then they pretend that test scores somehow show that their kid is smarter than the next kid.

On top of that, test scores and grades of the incoming freshmen tell us nothing about what the educational experience will be like once students get there. That’s what people should be paying attention to. The rankings lay absolutely no attention to what kids actually do for 4 years once they get on campus because there’s no way to boil that down into a statistic that you can run through a computer.

The whole idea of “ranking” schools is completely ridiculous. People with too much testosterone treat college selection like they treat March Madness.

Anonymous wrote:Doesn't St Olaf's have a strong music presence?

Exactly. And SATs don’t measure music talent.

Doesn't St Olaf's have a strong music presence?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Carleton is more like Grinnell - really super liberal and intense academics (but in a cool midwestern way, bien sur)

St. Olaf is friendlier, no less smart but less intense about it, fewer east coasters

They have a really different vibe -your kid will like one or the other, but prob not both.

Depends on how you define "no less smart." The stats for entering students suggest otherwise.

There's a reason why Carleton is ranked 9th and St Olaf 62nd.

Grades and standardized test scores are not direct assessments of intelligence. When are DCUMers going to get that.

Our friends visited St. Olaf's and LOVED the community. It really sounds special (in a good way).

Anonymous wrote:Great schools but MN gets 5-6 months of winter (with at least 2 of those months regularly getting below zero) so make sure your kid is ok w that.

On the bright side, students from Carleton are home from Thanksgiving through New Year's, which shortens winter by a few weeks. Then winter term, lots of students embrace getting outside and enjoying cross country skiing in the campus arboretum or ice skating and playing broomball on the outdoor ice rink in the middle of campus. Almost all students live on campus, so they don't have to deal with shoveling snow or scraping off cars.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Carleton is more like Grinnell - really super liberal and intense academics (but in a cool midwestern way, bien sur)

St. Olaf is friendlier, no less smart but less intense about it, fewer east coasters

They have a really different vibe -your kid will like one or the other, but prob not both.

Depends on how you define "no less smart." The stats for entering students suggest otherwise.

There's a reason why Carleton is ranked 9th and St Olaf 62nd.

Whatever the reason is, it’s spurious and doesn’t matter in terms of what the educational envelope one will get. Both are very good schools with different strengths. A student should go to the one adhere s/he is more likely to thrive.

That's all well and good, but it doesn't make the statement that the students at St Olaf are "no less smart" any more accurate. The criteria for admissions to Carleton are much more stringent.

By your logic, no students at any college are any smarter than at any other college.

This board is devoid of logic...it's simply $hitty takes by quite simply weird tiger parents that think HYPSM...blah blah blah are the only avenue in life. St. Olaf's, Carlton, go visit and find out...it's a big investment, would you buy a house unseen? FFS people, I'll pick St Olaf because it sounds Viking and my heritage is from Sweden, Carleton sounds Carolingian and they were conquered by almost everybody...that's how I make life changing decisions, almost like asking stupid questions on an anonymous board and expecting a real answers...time for a cup of tea.