Anonymous
05/13/2022 11:05
Subject: If you are or were a manager that micromanaged to push someone out for no reason
For me, I was not a "good cultural fit." I was a woman, too educated, and too old.
Anonymous
05/13/2022 10:50
Subject: Re:If you are or were a manager that micromanaged to push someone out for no reason
I did at a particularly cut throat corp. I was tasked with getting rid of a few employees after a re-org who remained friends with the "wrong people." They were good, productive workers that probably were happy they were tossed out of that environment.
Anonymous
05/13/2022 10:00
Subject: If you are or were a manager that micromanaged to push someone out for no reason
Anonymous wrote:Some employees just need micromanaged. We draft a lot of reports and external documents. Errors are unacceptable and unprofessional. Everyone else on the team does an excellent job and has little to no errors, but one guy just can't seem to do the work. The work is slow, he doesn't understand what he's doing, and there are grammatical and spelling errors. Sure, it's nitpicking and micromanaging to point out small errors, but what's the alternative? I'm not micromanaging to push him out, I'm managing him to get the work product up to an acceptable level.
https://officevibe.com/blog/poor-employee-performance-at-work
Anonymous
05/13/2022 09:56
Subject: If you are or were a manager that micromanaged to push someone out for no reason
Anonymous wrote:Why did you target that person? Jealousy? envy?
I've got one of these. I think it's a combination of insecurity, inexperience as a supervisor, and a healthy dose of judgmental and more-capable-than-anyone-else personality. She also does a lot of maneuvering to shift blame from herself and cast others as incompetent. Management stepped in, fortunately, to curb her worst impulses, but all of those traits are still simmering under the surface. I'm leaving because of her. I'm still debating how to address this in interviews.
Anonymous
05/13/2022 09:52
Subject: If you are or were a manager that micromanaged to push someone out for no reason
Anonymous wrote:Some employees just need micromanaged. We draft a lot of reports and external documents. Errors are unacceptable and unprofessional. Everyone else on the team does an excellent job and has little to no errors, but one guy just can't seem to do the work. The work is slow, he doesn't understand what he's doing, and there are grammatical and spelling errors. Sure, it's nitpicking and micromanaging to point out small errors, but what's the alternative? I'm not micromanaging to push him out, I'm managing him to get the work product up to an acceptable level.
You mean someone who needs to be micromanaged? Like you?
Anonymous
05/13/2022 09:31
Subject: If you are or were a manager that micromanaged to push someone out for no reason
Some employees just need micromanaged. We draft a lot of reports and external documents. Errors are unacceptable and unprofessional. Everyone else on the team does an excellent job and has little to no errors, but one guy just can't seem to do the work. The work is slow, he doesn't understand what he's doing, and there are grammatical and spelling errors. Sure, it's nitpicking and micromanaging to point out small errors, but what's the alternative? I'm not micromanaging to push him out, I'm managing him to get the work product up to an acceptable level.
Anonymous
05/13/2022 09:24
Subject: Re:If you are or were a manager that micromanaged to push someone out for no reason
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I doubt anyone will admit it, even here.
I was pushed out if a job, though less through micromanaging and more through a slow atrophy of my career at the company. My bosses were polite to my face and had no cause to fire me or demote me as I was good at my job and liked by clients. They quietly ignored me, stayed indifferent to my projects, failed to staff me to anything new, until I quit because I was miserable. The silent treatment.
The reason why, I learned later, is that a colleague told them privately that he believed I was a Trump supporter. The irony: I’m not. But for some reason they believed him. They couldn’t ask me about it or do anything officially because that would have been blatantly illegal. So they froze me out, work became miserable (I went in antidepressants and still struggled, this whole thing destroyed my sense of self worth and made me feel like I was going crazy). I tried several times to understand what was going on, and they’d avoid meeting with me directly and then lie and say everything was great.
If I thought it wouldn’t be a miserable experience, I’d sue them. But my mental health improved when I left the job and now I think I have PTSD— I can imagine going through a legal process with them.
I don’t think they’d even admit it, even here, because even putting it somewhere anonymously could expose them to liability. The only reason I know is a former colleague who is in grad school for a career change told me, and she would never testify to it.
People are monsters.
Don’t pursue legal action because there’s nothing illegal here. Hope you find yourself in a better situation now.
It’s illegal to discriminate against employees for their political beliefs.
No. Political beliefs are not a protected class. They could have told you they hate you because you love Trump, and it wouldn’t be illegal. Rude, but not illegal.
It’s protected in DC.
Very interesting! And makes sense in DC but is not the case in most jurisdictions.
Anonymous
05/13/2022 09:18
Subject: Re:If you are or were a manager that micromanaged to push someone out for no reason
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I doubt anyone will admit it, even here.
I was pushed out if a job, though less through micromanaging and more through a slow atrophy of my career at the company. My bosses were polite to my face and had no cause to fire me or demote me as I was good at my job and liked by clients. They quietly ignored me, stayed indifferent to my projects, failed to staff me to anything new, until I quit because I was miserable. The silent treatment.
The reason why, I learned later, is that a colleague told them privately that he believed I was a Trump supporter. The irony: I’m not. But for some reason they believed him. They couldn’t ask me about it or do anything officially because that would have been blatantly illegal. So they froze me out, work became miserable (I went in antidepressants and still struggled, this whole thing destroyed my sense of self worth and made me feel like I was going crazy). I tried several times to understand what was going on, and they’d avoid meeting with me directly and then lie and say everything was great.
If I thought it wouldn’t be a miserable experience, I’d sue them. But my mental health improved when I left the job and now I think I have PTSD— I can imagine going through a legal process with them.
I don’t think they’d even admit it, even here, because even putting it somewhere anonymously could expose them to liability. The only reason I know is a former colleague who is in grad school for a career change told me, and she would never testify to it.
People are monsters.
Don’t pursue legal action because there’s nothing illegal here. Hope you find yourself in a better situation now.
It’s illegal to discriminate against employees for their political beliefs.
No. Political beliefs are not a protected class. They could have told you they hate you because you love Trump, and it wouldn’t be illegal. Rude, but not illegal.
It’s protected in DC.
OK. That's one of maybe 10 states that have it as a protected class. It's the minority rule, so the earlier blanket statement was flat out wrong.
This is DC Urban Moms, ma’am.
Cool, so 2/3 of the jurisdictions in the DC urban area don't recognize political affiliation as a protected class.
Anonymous
05/13/2022 09:01
Subject: Re:If you are or were a manager that micromanaged to push someone out for no reason
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I doubt anyone will admit it, even here.
I was pushed out if a job, though less through micromanaging and more through a slow atrophy of my career at the company. My bosses were polite to my face and had no cause to fire me or demote me as I was good at my job and liked by clients. They quietly ignored me, stayed indifferent to my projects, failed to staff me to anything new, until I quit because I was miserable. The silent treatment.
The reason why, I learned later, is that a colleague told them privately that he believed I was a Trump supporter. The irony: I’m not. But for some reason they believed him. They couldn’t ask me about it or do anything officially because that would have been blatantly illegal. So they froze me out, work became miserable (I went in antidepressants and still struggled, this whole thing destroyed my sense of self worth and made me feel like I was going crazy). I tried several times to understand what was going on, and they’d avoid meeting with me directly and then lie and say everything was great.
If I thought it wouldn’t be a miserable experience, I’d sue them. But my mental health improved when I left the job and now I think I have PTSD— I can imagine going through a legal process with them.
I don’t think they’d even admit it, even here, because even putting it somewhere anonymously could expose them to liability. The only reason I know is a former colleague who is in grad school for a career change told me, and she would never testify to it.
People are monsters.
Don’t pursue legal action because there’s nothing illegal here. Hope you find yourself in a better situation now.
It’s illegal to discriminate against employees for their political beliefs.
No. Political beliefs are not a protected class. They could have told you they hate you because you love Trump, and it wouldn’t be illegal. Rude, but not illegal.
It’s protected in DC.
OK. That's one of maybe 10 states that have it as a protected class. It's the minority rule, so the earlier blanket statement was flat out wrong.
This is DC Urban Moms, ma’am.
Anonymous
05/13/2022 09:00
Subject: If you are or were a manager that micromanaged to push someone out for no reason
I think micromanaging bosses push out employees unfairly, both deliberately and unconsciously. Micromanaging can also absolutely be used as a form of deliberate harassment or retaliation- there is plenty case law on this where a formerly great employee is placed on a PIP immediately after blowing the whistle.
There is a lot of literature on the harms of micromanagement. It’s a real thing, and very bad for productivity and employee development. Even here on DCUM I’ve seen managers post weird things like how they “do not tolerate a single error.”
What happens is that the micromanaged employee gets totally demoralized, and may start to actually become less competent due to the psychological impact. Like, I had a boss who would regularly spend considerable time lecturing me on how I had not correctly changed the header of documents the way she had instructed me to do. I am an attorney and subject may terrible expert, yet we would spend literally ALL the time on trivialities and none on the substance. It was maddening. She did not do it consciously but I absolutely would have quit if I hadn’t been restructured to another boss.
The other related thing that happens is the micromanaging boss has unrealistic expectations and believes that small errors means the employee is a bad employee. This can lead to a viscious circle where the employee can’t meet those expectations, gets evaluated unfairly, gets demoralized, performs worse, then leaves.
Micromanaging as deliberate harassment or retaliation is less common but as I progress in my career, I believe it happens far more than you’d think.
There is a lot of literature on the harms of micromanagement. It’s a real thing, and very bad for productivity and employee development. Even here on DCUM I’ve seen managers post weird things like how they “do not tolerate a single error.”
What happens is that the micromanaged employee gets totally demoralized, and may start to actually become less competent due to the psychological impact. Like, I had a boss who would regularly spend considerable time lecturing me on how I had not correctly changed the header of documents the way she had instructed me to do. I am an attorney and subject may terrible expert, yet we would spend literally ALL the time on trivialities and none on the substance. It was maddening. She did not do it consciously but I absolutely would have quit if I hadn’t been restructured to another boss.
The other related thing that happens is the micromanaging boss has unrealistic expectations and believes that small errors means the employee is a bad employee. This can lead to a viscious circle where the employee can’t meet those expectations, gets evaluated unfairly, gets demoralized, performs worse, then leaves.
Micromanaging as deliberate harassment or retaliation is less common but as I progress in my career, I believe it happens far more than you’d think.
Anonymous
05/13/2022 08:51
Subject: Re:If you are or were a manager that micromanaged to push someone out for no reason
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I doubt anyone will admit it, even here.
I was pushed out if a job, though less through micromanaging and more through a slow atrophy of my career at the company. My bosses were polite to my face and had no cause to fire me or demote me as I was good at my job and liked by clients. They quietly ignored me, stayed indifferent to my projects, failed to staff me to anything new, until I quit because I was miserable. The silent treatment.
The reason why, I learned later, is that a colleague told them privately that he believed I was a Trump supporter. The irony: I’m not. But for some reason they believed him. They couldn’t ask me about it or do anything officially because that would have been blatantly illegal. So they froze me out, work became miserable (I went in antidepressants and still struggled, this whole thing destroyed my sense of self worth and made me feel like I was going crazy). I tried several times to understand what was going on, and they’d avoid meeting with me directly and then lie and say everything was great.
If I thought it wouldn’t be a miserable experience, I’d sue them. But my mental health improved when I left the job and now I think I have PTSD— I can imagine going through a legal process with them.
I don’t think they’d even admit it, even here, because even putting it somewhere anonymously could expose them to liability. The only reason I know is a former colleague who is in grad school for a career change told me, and she would never testify to it.
People are monsters.
Don’t pursue legal action because there’s nothing illegal here. Hope you find yourself in a better situation now.
It’s illegal to discriminate against employees for their political beliefs.
No. Political beliefs are not a protected class. They could have told you they hate you because you love Trump, and it wouldn’t be illegal. Rude, but not illegal.
It’s protected in DC.
OK. That's one of maybe 10 states that have it as a protected class. It's the minority rule, so the earlier blanket statement was flat out wrong.
Anonymous
05/13/2022 08:47
Subject: Re:If you are or were a manager that micromanaged to push someone out for no reason
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I doubt anyone will admit it, even here.
I was pushed out if a job, though less through micromanaging and more through a slow atrophy of my career at the company. My bosses were polite to my face and had no cause to fire me or demote me as I was good at my job and liked by clients. They quietly ignored me, stayed indifferent to my projects, failed to staff me to anything new, until I quit because I was miserable. The silent treatment.
The reason why, I learned later, is that a colleague told them privately that he believed I was a Trump supporter. The irony: I’m not. But for some reason they believed him. They couldn’t ask me about it or do anything officially because that would have been blatantly illegal. So they froze me out, work became miserable (I went in antidepressants and still struggled, this whole thing destroyed my sense of self worth and made me feel like I was going crazy). I tried several times to understand what was going on, and they’d avoid meeting with me directly and then lie and say everything was great.
If I thought it wouldn’t be a miserable experience, I’d sue them. But my mental health improved when I left the job and now I think I have PTSD— I can imagine going through a legal process with them.
I don’t think they’d even admit it, even here, because even putting it somewhere anonymously could expose them to liability. The only reason I know is a former colleague who is in grad school for a career change told me, and she would never testify to it.
People are monsters.
Don’t pursue legal action because there’s nothing illegal here. Hope you find yourself in a better situation now.
It’s illegal to discriminate against employees for their political beliefs.
No. Political beliefs are not a protected class. They could have told you they hate you because you love Trump, and it wouldn’t be illegal. Rude, but not illegal.
It’s protected in DC.
Anonymous
05/13/2022 08:39
Subject: If you are or were a manager that micromanaged to push someone out for no reason
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:No one will say they pushed someone out "for no reason." You may not know the reason or consider it valid but if it happened to you, the person had a reason they considered valid.
DP but I’m going to argue with you.
If you have a valid reason to not want someone working for you anymore, you should TELL THEM during regular performance evaluations or other appropriate times so that they have the opportunity to fix it.
If they don’t fix it, you can demote or fire for cause, and they might be mad but not confused because you have been clear with them about expectations and they have refused or been incapable of meeting them.
When people are not up front about their reasons, it’s either because:
(1) They are BAD managers with poor communication skills, who are often passive aggressive and afraid of being direct, because they don’t want to be held responsible for use of their authority. They want to use their authority, they just don’t want to be held responsible for it. Lazy cowards, you know who you are.
(2) Their reasons are invalid. They have a personal conflict with an otherwise good worker and can’t leave it outside the office. They are prejudiced. They want to hire a friend into that role. And so on. They can’t directly express these reasons because they are bad and they know it, so they just passively aggressively make work hell for the person until they quit.
If as a manager you think you have a valid reason to be unhappy with a subordinate, you HAVE to communicate it. It’s a fundamental part of your job. The only reason not to communicate it is if the reason is invalid.
(Some people are devious and do a thing where they make people miserable at work, then say “you seem miserable and that’s a problem” then get rid of them for attitude problems. Diabolical, human beings are actually quite terrible.)
Here's another perspective - no matter how clear and kind you were, they will always be the victim in their own head and you "pushed them out for no reason."
I had someone like this, and I suspect now that I was brought on as a manager to do the dirty work of "pushing this person out." He repeatedly missed deadlines which resulted either in angry collaborators or someone else on the team frantically doing the work for him. I tried holding him accountable on a weekly schedule. You need X and Y by the end of the week. That didn't work. I started having mid week check ins to make sure he was on track for the Friday deadline. That didn't work. I told him "I understand if there are unexpected problems. Just come to me and let me know what the problem is and how much extra time you will need." That didn't work. Vast amounts of his time were unaccounted for. By the end, I had daily check ins. In the morning I would do a stand up about what did he accomplish yesterday, were there any problems, and what is the plan for today. This is way more managing than I like to do or that I had to do with anyone else before or since.
We submitted a pre-PIP as a warning shot. Nothing changed. We submitted the real PIP. Nothing changed. Finally he got a new job a month before the PIP was up.
He would call me a micromanager, and I know for a fact he thinks I pushed him out.
Anonymous
05/13/2022 08:08
Subject: Re:If you are or were a manager that micromanaged to push someone out for no reason
Anonymous wrote:I doubt anyone will admit it, even here.
I was pushed out if a job, though less through micromanaging and more through a slow atrophy of my career at the company. My bosses were polite to my face and had no cause to fire me or demote me as I was good at my job and liked by clients. They quietly ignored me, stayed indifferent to my projects, failed to staff me to anything new, until I quit because I was miserable. The silent treatment.
The reason why, I learned later, is that a colleague told them privately that he believed I was a Trump supporter. The irony: I’m not. But for some reason they believed him. They couldn’t ask me about it or do anything officially because that would have been blatantly illegal. So they froze me out, work became miserable (I went in antidepressants and still struggled, this whole thing destroyed my sense of self worth and made me feel like I was going crazy). I tried several times to understand what was going on, and they’d avoid meeting with me directly and then lie and say everything was great.
If I thought it wouldn’t be a miserable experience, I’d sue them. But my mental health improved when I left the job and now I think I have PTSD— I can imagine going through a legal process with them.
I don’t think they’d even admit it, even here, because even putting it somewhere anonymously could expose them to liability. The only reason I know is a former colleague who is in grad school for a career change told me, and she would never testify to it.
People are monsters.
This is such a fantasy of the right, that they (and others!) are being persecuted for their beliefs. The reality is that no one cares. Especially in upper management of most organizations, because for reasons of age and wealth upper management leans conservative. Even if PP is not a troll and truly believes that was the reason, it wasn't the reason.
Anonymous
05/13/2022 07:44
Subject: Re:If you are or were a manager that micromanaged to push someone out for no reason
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I doubt anyone will admit it, even here.
I was pushed out if a job, though less through micromanaging and more through a slow atrophy of my career at the company. My bosses were polite to my face and had no cause to fire me or demote me as I was good at my job and liked by clients. They quietly ignored me, stayed indifferent to my projects, failed to staff me to anything new, until I quit because I was miserable. The silent treatment.
The reason why, I learned later, is that a colleague told them privately that he believed I was a Trump supporter. The irony: I’m not. But for some reason they believed him. They couldn’t ask me about it or do anything officially because that would have been blatantly illegal. So they froze me out, work became miserable (I went in antidepressants and still struggled, this whole thing destroyed my sense of self worth and made me feel like I was going crazy). I tried several times to understand what was going on, and they’d avoid meeting with me directly and then lie and say everything was great.
If I thought it wouldn’t be a miserable experience, I’d sue them. But my mental health improved when I left the job and now I think I have PTSD— I can imagine going through a legal process with them.
I don’t think they’d even admit it, even here, because even putting it somewhere anonymously could expose them to liability. The only reason I know is a former colleague who is in grad school for a career change told me, and she would never testify to it.
People are monsters.
Don’t pursue legal action because there’s nothing illegal here. Hope you find yourself in a better situation now.
It’s illegal to discriminate against employees for their political beliefs.
No. Political beliefs are not a protected class. They could have told you they hate you because you love Trump, and it wouldn’t be illegal. Rude, but not illegal.