Have only read the first post. Pretty far in so apologies that I am sure I have missed basically everything.

Our DC didn't submit test scores to Pitt because decent but not stellar SAT scores would not qualify for for guarantee admit to pre-med. In at Pitt. Didn't make the guarantee medical school admit.

I am pretty sure our DC didn't submit scores to the other schools. Applied to an ED, accepted, and retracted applications to others after that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Test optional us only got URMs and first generation.

And rich people..

There's tacit support for TO on these forums, especially from the private school or elite public school crowd.. you know the "Big 3" (or is it Big 5), "W" or whatever type schools. A lot of posts about how their kids are unable to cross 1400, yet have 3.5+ GPAs. Such parents love TO. They just won't admit it.

The whole college process is corrupt, where "greasing the ***" to squeeze a kid in is called "hooks", pointless athletics (what real life value does the ability to play lacrosse have in real life? Don't bother me with teamwork nonsense), and staged ECs, gets the kids in. Test scores were a glaring gap and now that it's gone, rich folks are thrilled.

URMs and First gen get what they deserve/owed anyways. Besides, most of them don't really want to be know for their accomplishments, not what they are.

[b]As usual, it's the middle class and Asians that get fu**ed!

Middle class and Asians are overrepresented on college campuses.

Wake up.

I AM awake. You must be thrilled now that your dumb kid can get in!

This made me lol!

I am pro-test. I wish they would do away with this TO crap. My smart white kids test high so we will submit scores.

Test Optional colleges for 2022-2023 ( and most beyond):

https://thecollegecurators.com/test-optional-colleges-for-2022-2023/

I guarantee that TO kids of all ethnicities will get picked over your "smart white kids"

Keep laughing.

LoL!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Test optional us only got URMs and first generation.

And rich people..

There's tacit support for TO on these forums, especially from the private school or elite public school crowd.. you know the "Big 3" (or is it Big 5), "W" or whatever type schools. A lot of posts about how their kids are unable to cross 1400, yet have 3.5+ GPAs. Such parents love TO. They just won't admit it.

The whole college process is corrupt, where "greasing the ***" to squeeze a kid in is called "hooks", pointless athletics (what real life value does the ability to play lacrosse have in real life? Don't bother me with teamwork nonsense), and staged ECs, gets the kids in. Test scores were a glaring gap and now that it's gone, rich folks are thrilled.

URMs and First gen get what they deserve/owed anyways. Besides, most of them don't really want to be know for their accomplishments, not what they are.

[b]As usual, it's the middle class and Asians that get fu**ed!

Middle class and Asians are overrepresented on college campuses.

Wake up.

I AM awake. You must be thrilled now that your dumb kid can get in!

This made me lol!

I am pro-test. I wish they would do away with this TO crap. My smart white kids test high so we will submit scores.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Test optional us only got URMs and first generation.

And rich people..

There's tacit support for TO on these forums, especially from the private school or elite public school crowd.. you know the "Big 3" (or is it Big 5), "W" or whatever type schools. A lot of posts about how their kids are unable to cross 1400, yet have 3.5+ GPAs. Such parents love TO. They just won't admit it.

The whole college process is corrupt, where "greasing the ***" to squeeze a kid in is called "hooks", pointless athletics (what real life value does the ability to play lacrosse have in real life? Don't bother me with teamwork nonsense), and staged ECs, gets the kids in. Test scores were a glaring gap and now that it's gone, rich folks are thrilled.

URMs and First gen get what they deserve/owed anyways. Besides, most of them don't really want to be know for their accomplishments, not what they are.

[b]As usual, it's the middle class and Asians that get fu**ed!

Middle class and Asians are overrepresented on college campuses.

Wake up.

I AM awake. You must be thrilled now that your dumb kid can get in!

#clueless

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Test optional us only got URMs and first generation.

And rich people..

There's tacit support for TO on these forums, especially from the private school or elite public school crowd.. you know the "Big 3" (or is it Big 5), "W" or whatever type schools. A lot of posts about how their kids are unable to cross 1400, yet have 3.5+ GPAs. Such parents love TO. They just won't admit it.

The whole college process is corrupt, where "greasing the ***" to squeeze a kid in is called "hooks", pointless athletics (what real life value does the ability to play lacrosse have in real life? Don't bother me with teamwork nonsense), and staged ECs, gets the kids in. Test scores were a glaring gap and now that it's gone, rich folks are thrilled.

URMs and First gen get what they deserve/owed anyways. Besides, most of them don't really want to be know for their accomplishments, not what they are.

[b]As usual, it's the middle class and Asians that get fu**ed!

Middle class and Asians are overrepresented on college campuses.

Wake up.

I AM awake. You must be thrilled now that your dumb kid can get in!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I applaud any objective metric of intelligence. Of course the parties that habitually score the lower want them removed.

I'm a psychometrician. There are no objective measures of intelligence.

That’s not the point. There are plainly test of academic aptitude .

Anonymous wrote:Great, another thread on TO.

There are tons of threads on SAT/ ACT.....and?

Test Optional is slowly becoming the new normal in college admissions.

This is a college forum.

Get it?

Anonymous wrote:I applaud any objective metric of intelligence. Of course the parties that habitually score the lower want them removed.

I'm a psychometrician. There are no objective measures of intelligence.

Great, another thread on TO.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our college counselor said it’s a bit of a game. TO has raised average SAT at schools, but they are basically taking the same kids. They are just accepting them TO to keep their acaerage scores high. We live in CA. Lots of kids here aren’t even taking the tests because the UCs are test blind.

This is a key point. The UCs going test blind is going to reshape the terrain. More and more CA students will not have scores, and that’s a HUGE number of applicants. WA, AZ, and OR are also test blind for state schools. At a certain point, the numbers will shift. Some schools (like Georgetown, which doesn’t even accept the common app and requires scores from all test sittings) will hold out and might not ever change. But more and more will be true optional or blind.

The reason that UC system can go test blind is that they have so much data already about all of the CA HSs (GPAs, course grades) and how students do once accepted, they can make their determination of academic preparedness without the test scores. All state university systems should be able to do this for in-state students. Smaller schools and the most rigorous schools with students from all over the US and the world will still find standardized test scores useful to be able to compare students and predict success.

Except that some smaller and more rigorous schools (e.g. Wesleyan and Chicago) went test-optional long before COVID. So clearly it’s doable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our college counselor said it’s a bit of a game. TO has raised average SAT at schools, but they are basically taking the same kids. They are just accepting them TO to keep their acaerage scores high. We live in CA. Lots of kids here aren’t even taking the tests because the UCs are test blind.

This is a key point. The UCs going test blind is going to reshape the terrain. More and more CA students will not have scores, and that’s a HUGE number of applicants. WA, AZ, and OR are also test blind for state schools. At a certain point, the numbers will shift. Some schools (like Georgetown, which doesn’t even accept the common app and requires scores from all test sittings) will hold out and might not ever change. But more and more will be true optional or blind.

The reason that UC system can go test blind is that they have so much data already about all of the CA HSs (GPAs, course grades) and how students do once accepted, they can make their determination of academic preparedness without the test scores. All state university systems should be able to do this for in-state students. Smaller schools and the most rigorous schools with students from all over the US and the world will still find standardized test scores useful to be able to compare students and predict success.

Anonymous wrote:Our college counselor said it’s a bit of a game. TO has raised average SAT at schools, but they are basically taking the same kids. They are just accepting them TO to keep their acaerage scores high. We live in CA. Lots of kids here aren’t even taking the tests because the UCs are test blind.

This is a key point. The UCs going test blind is going to reshape the terrain. More and more CA students will not have scores, and that’s a HUGE number of applicants. WA, AZ, and OR are also test blind for state schools. At a certain point, the numbers will shift. Some schools (like Georgetown, which doesn’t even accept the common app and requires scores from all test sittings) will hold out and might not ever change. But more and more will be true optional or blind.

Anonymous wrote:Quite a few schools are staying test optional for next year. My question is, how can admissions officers honestly keep an unbiased opinion looking at kids who didn’t send in test scores? Despite wanting to stay neutral, I know I would be biased and assume that the kid bombed or didn’t do as great as they had hoped on the tests. Can they honestly look at the applications without bias? Worried if my kid should need to go test optional.

It's not a question of bias, it's a question of whether there is enough information for the AO to determine if the applicant is academically qualified for the program they've applied to. That's really the first cut that applicants have to get past. Test optional doesn't mean academic requirements optional. Without test scores, AOs have to look more closely at the transcript and use other information they have about the school and course rigor/grades to decide if the applicant is qualified. If the AO is uncertain and the applicant doesn't have other things that make the application outstanding, the AO is going to go with other choices. That's not "bias", that's working with the data they have.

If you are worried if your kid "should need to go test optional" because they will score poorly on SAT/ACT, then you should be worried. What you are describing is having your kid apply to colleges they are not academically ready for and hoping to get in based on GPA alone by hiding poor scores. That is a disservice to your kid and a set up for struggle at the school, should they be accepted. You should be looking at school that are a good academic fit, and that includes considering test scores.

I applaud any objective metric of intelligence. Of course the parties that habitually score the lower want them removed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Admissions staff is trained to evaluate a applicant based on what's submitted. Test Optional didn't just happen yesterday and some of the highly selective colleges have been test optional for years (U of Chicago, Bowdoin, Wesleyan, etc).

Based on the gripes from some DCUM parents, some TO applicants have been accepted over 1500+ SAT applicants. If your kid has a great application with academic rigor, ECs, essays, recommendations, if he/she goes test optional, the one testing data point won't be any more of a deal breaker than the thousands of kids who get rejected with high SAT scores.

In a pile of virtually indistinguishable applications, a good score will put one above all the others that don’t include a score.

In a test optional environment, if score free applications are chosen over ones with great scores it’s because something else stood out.

I have to believe this was the case for my DD who applied test optional everywhere and got in everywhere, including Virginia Tech and JMU which on paper looked like a reach.