Anonymous
Post 04/28/2022 17:49     Subject: Re:Doctoral Admissions?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Doctoral admissions sound crazy to me. So if a student gets a high GPA in a STEM degree but couldn’t get research experience at their school, that’s it?


That scenario is relatively fixable, just get a research job upon graduation, to fill the gap.

My kid is being told "she did everything right," but they just don't have funding. (Some programs are accepting NO new students this year...which they should figure out before the had people apply, IMHO).


She should apply for NSF.
Anonymous
Post 04/28/2022 17:44     Subject: Doctoral Admissions?
Thanks for all of the helpful responses!

--OP
Anonymous
Post 04/28/2022 17:37     Subject: Doctoral Admissions?
Yes, DD says most STEM PhDs are fully funded as long as you stick with it and apply for MS/PhD together. However, I know plenty of non-STEM who took out loans for living expenses which seems crazy to me.
Anonymous
Post 04/28/2022 17:31     Subject: Doctoral Admissions?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No one should go into a PhD program that isn't fully funded (tuition waiver plus a livable stipend). And no one gets into a fully funded PhD program unless they have an advisor or faculty member advocate for them. It's the undergraduate faculty that will open the doors for them. My advisor got me a slot based solely on the weight of his recommendation before the grad program ever saw my transcript or GREs.


So you have to go to a top school? Seems much different than med or law admissions.


The PP never said this.


She said “undergraduate faculty that will open doors.”


Having undergrad mentors who know you well, know people in the field, and can advise you and make contact with people in PhD programs helps ENORMOUSLY. But that need not mean being at a top undergrad institution. The academic job market is such that people who have connections at top grad programs are teaching way down beyond the list of schools DCUM considers acceptable. More important is to build relationships with undergrad profs, which is why the SLAC-to-PhD pipeline is what it is.
Anonymous
Post 04/28/2022 17:24     Subject: Doctoral Admissions?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No one should go into a PhD program that isn't fully funded (tuition waiver plus a livable stipend). And no one gets into a fully funded PhD program unless they have an advisor or faculty member advocate for them. It's the undergraduate faculty that will open the doors for them. My advisor got me a slot based solely on the weight of his recommendation before the grad program ever saw my transcript or GREs.


So you have to go to a top school? Seems much different than med or law admissions.


The PP never said this.


She said “undergraduate faculty that will open doors.”
Anonymous
Post 04/28/2022 17:21     Subject: Doctoral Admissions?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No one should go into a PhD program that isn't fully funded (tuition waiver plus a livable stipend). And no one gets into a fully funded PhD program unless they have an advisor or faculty member advocate for them. It's the undergraduate faculty that will open the doors for them. My advisor got me a slot based solely on the weight of his recommendation before the grad program ever saw my transcript or GREs.


So you have to go to a top school? Seems much different than med or law admissions.


The PP never said this.
Anonymous
Post 04/28/2022 17:18     Subject: Doctoral Admissions?
Anonymous wrote:No one should go into a PhD program that isn't fully funded (tuition waiver plus a livable stipend). And no one gets into a fully funded PhD program unless they have an advisor or faculty member advocate for them. It's the undergraduate faculty that will open the doors for them. My advisor got me a slot based solely on the weight of his recommendation before the grad program ever saw my transcript or GREs.

My DD is entering a fully funded PhD program in the Fall with a fellowship, and this is how it worked for her. She had an offer from a different program when she graduated from college in 2021, but it was contingent on the lab receiving grant funding, and they ultimately did not. I think that was very common during the pandemic. Her undergraduate major advisors worked to help her get into a research internship this year, and when she ultimately had a few offer to choose from for this fall, they weighed in on which programs had the best reputation and lab facilities, and which profs were doing the most exciting research.

It’s all so different than anything DH and I have experienced. We were both humanities majors who met in law school. We were amazed to learn that you can get a PhD without spending any money—definitely not the case with law school! We are well aware that the job market situation will be difficult down the line. Maybe those of us on here can form a support group and check in re our kids’ experiences from time to time?

Best of luck to your son, OP.
Anonymous
Post 04/28/2022 16:33     Subject: Doctoral Admissions?
Anonymous wrote:No one should go into a PhD program that isn't fully funded (tuition waiver plus a livable stipend). And no one gets into a fully funded PhD program unless they have an advisor or faculty member advocate for them. It's the undergraduate faculty that will open the doors for them. My advisor got me a slot based solely on the weight of his recommendation before the grad program ever saw my transcript or GREs.


So you have to go to a top school? Seems much different than med or law admissions.
Anonymous
Post 04/28/2022 16:31     Subject: Doctoral Admissions?
This was an EXTREMELY tough year for PhD admissions. Personal experience: kid with the highest possible credentials from a very top undergrad program got into exactly one of the programs they applied to, which in ordinary times is a result nobody would have predicted. Friends who teach in PhD programs report that many programs closed admissions entirely last year, which means a backlog of those hoping to be admitted in the current cycle. It is really truly nuts and not what anybody advising current undergrads expected.
Anonymous
Post 04/28/2022 15:51     Subject: Doctoral Admissions?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I know someone who applied again the next year and had much better results. No extra job experience inbetween or classes. Said they changed nothing about their application.


Since there are so few slots, it seems like timing is key (and maybe luck). That is assuming of course that you have the basic ingredients all schools seek.



Or one of your recommenders is good friends with the dept head at the school where you are applying. My spouse was rejected from every program except the top 5 program where her thesis advisor was good friends with a professor in her target area of study.

For a person easily offended by non-responsiveness or unprofessional behavior, academia will be a nightmare. I'm just imagining being back in my advisor's office as she shuffled through her overflowing desk and several mail tubs of manila envelopes trying to find one particular piece of paper. Being the best at medieval history or geometry does not mean you are even marginally effective at running a department or recruiting new Ph.D. students.

I seem to remember that I had one school I didn't hear from. Eventually, I called and they told me very casually that I had been accepted.
Anonymous
Post 04/28/2022 15:47     Subject: Doctoral Admissions?
No one should go into a PhD program that isn't fully funded (tuition waiver plus a livable stipend). And no one gets into a fully funded PhD program unless they have an advisor or faculty member advocate for them. It's the undergraduate faculty that will open the doors for them. My advisor got me a slot based solely on the weight of his recommendation before the grad program ever saw my transcript or GREs.
Anonymous
Post 04/28/2022 15:42     Subject: Re:Doctoral Admissions?
Anonymous wrote:Doctoral admissions sound crazy to me. So if a student gets a high GPA in a STEM degree but couldn’t get research experience at their school, that’s it?[/quote

Not necessarily from what I gather, but probably not to top programs unless they can get a lab tech position and maybe get invited that way. DD has all the goods so to speak and I still worry that this will be a costly mistake unless she decides to go corporate after it and not work in academia - which sounds beyond hopeless at this point.
Anonymous
Post 04/28/2022 15:42     Subject: Doctoral Admissions?
Another prof/R1 here - your son should email his potential advisors in the schools that have not yet contacted him and ask for an update. There are many reasons he may not have heard yet, including being informally waitlisted (PhD admissions are like musical chairs - many places do not get their top applicants and then move down the list), someone waiting to hear if a grant that could support a student is funded, etc. It's totally normal for him to reach out and ask for an update on his application.