Anonymous
04/20/2022 08:19
Subject: What can a 2nd grader spell? How. to teach spelling at home?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If he can read just fine, why does this matter?
Reading is the best way to learn how to spell. Other than that, just have him practice. Make a list of words you know he can read. Have him practice writing them out. Do this every week or so.
Personally, I'd spend the time having him read though.
Ignore this poster. Spelling matters. It gets harder & harder to teach, so I would absolutely do spelling lessons with him. Second grade is a perfect age. Most kids have awful spelling now since schools don’t do direct spelling instruction.
Np here. We are at a catholic school and our kids have had weekly spelling tests since first grade. Our friends at an independent private have had the same. My friends at dcps whose kids are in 2nd grade have told me they have not had spelling tests yet. I think this is a major failing of the system as spelling and writing well go hand in hand in my opinion.
Yup. You are correct. Public schools twist themselves into pretzels as they explain why spelling instruction is bad.
Agreed, with the caveat that my nephew was doing spelling tests in kindergarten at his parochial before he could read. That wasn’t the right approach, but neither is ignoring spelling completely. That said, I’m teaching my kindergartener English phonics explicitly and her spelling is better than some of the second graders at her bilingual school. She could spell food (and spelled comida as “conida” because that’s how she hears it, apparently). She said food has two o’s because it “has an ooooo in it.” That’s phonics.
Right, but most students need deliberate practice in spelling. Spelling lists would show students the rule and vowel breakers. But now there is no practice. That's how you end up with 5th graders spelling everything phonetically. It's like teaching kids the letter sounds and how to blend but not giving them practice. How would they ever develop mastery that way? They wouldn't. Spelling lists are similar to decodable books for reading. They allow students to practice what they are learning. Without it, they never move on from spelling like a kindergartener.
Oh absolutely. But testing kids in spelling before teaching the spelling rules is a futile exercise in rote memorization. My K student is reading on a mid second grade level (thank you, phonics!) and now feels like about the right time to start working on spelling. She’s got the fundamentals down and can get a good part of the way there by applying the rules. Now she’ll actually learn WHY and how to apply it to other words, not just memorize that specific word in a vacuum. I think we started spelling in second grade back in the nineties. Definitely third grade, but that’s just because I remember that teacher playing spelling games with the class…
Anonymous
04/19/2022 20:58
Subject: What can a 2nd grader spell? How. to teach spelling at home?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If he can read just fine, why does this matter?
Reading is the best way to learn how to spell. Other than that, just have him practice. Make a list of words you know he can read. Have him practice writing them out. Do this every week or so.
Personally, I'd spend the time having him read though.
Ignore this poster. Spelling matters. It gets harder & harder to teach, so I would absolutely do spelling lessons with him. Second grade is a perfect age. Most kids have awful spelling now since schools don’t do direct spelling instruction.
Np here. We are at a catholic school and our kids have had weekly spelling tests since first grade. Our friends at an independent private have had the same. My friends at dcps whose kids are in 2nd grade have told me they have not had spelling tests yet. I think this is a major failing of the system as spelling and writing well go hand in hand in my opinion.
Yup. You are correct. Public schools twist themselves into pretzels as they explain why spelling instruction is bad.
Agreed, with the caveat that my nephew was doing spelling tests in kindergarten at his parochial before he could read. That wasn’t the right approach, but neither is ignoring spelling completely. That said, I’m teaching my kindergartener English phonics explicitly and her spelling is better than some of the second graders at her bilingual school. She could spell food (and spelled comida as “conida” because that’s how she hears it, apparently). She said food has two o’s because it “has an ooooo in it.” That’s phonics.
Right, but most students need deliberate practice in spelling. Spelling lists would show students the rule and vowel breakers. But now there is no practice. That's how you end up with 5th graders spelling everything phonetically. It's like teaching kids the letter sounds and how to blend but not giving them practice. How would they ever develop mastery that way? They wouldn't. Spelling lists are similar to decodable books for reading. They allow students to practice what they are learning. Without it, they never move on from spelling like a kindergartener.
Anonymous
04/19/2022 19:53
Subject: What can a 2nd grader spell? How. to teach spelling at home?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If he can read just fine, why does this matter?
Reading is the best way to learn how to spell. Other than that, just have him practice. Make a list of words you know he can read. Have him practice writing them out. Do this every week or so.
Personally, I'd spend the time having him read though.
Ignore this poster. Spelling matters. It gets harder & harder to teach, so I would absolutely do spelling lessons with him. Second grade is a perfect age. Most kids have awful spelling now since schools don’t do direct spelling instruction.
Np here. We are at a catholic school and our kids have had weekly spelling tests since first grade. Our friends at an independent private have had the same. My friends at dcps whose kids are in 2nd grade have told me they have not had spelling tests yet. I think this is a major failing of the system as spelling and writing well go hand in hand in my opinion.
Yup. You are correct. Public schools twist themselves into pretzels as they explain why spelling instruction is bad.
Agreed, with the caveat that my nephew was doing spelling tests in kindergarten at his parochial before he could read. That wasn’t the right approach, but neither is ignoring spelling completely. That said, I’m teaching my kindergartener English phonics explicitly and her spelling is better than some of the second graders at her bilingual school. She could spell food (and spelled comida as “conida” because that’s how she hears it, apparently). She said food has two o’s because it “has an ooooo in it.” That’s phonics.
Anonymous
04/19/2022 17:33
Subject: What can a 2nd grader spell? How. to teach spelling at home?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If he can read just fine, why does this matter?
Reading is the best way to learn how to spell. Other than that, just have him practice. Make a list of words you know he can read. Have him practice writing them out. Do this every week or so.
Personally, I'd spend the time having him read though.
Ignore this poster. Spelling matters. It gets harder & harder to teach, so I would absolutely do spelling lessons with him. Second grade is a perfect age. Most kids have awful spelling now since schools don’t do direct spelling instruction.
Np here. We are at a catholic school and our kids have had weekly spelling tests since first grade. Our friends at an independent private have had the same. My friends at dcps whose kids are in 2nd grade have told me they have not had spelling tests yet. I think this is a major failing of the system as spelling and writing well go hand in hand in my opinion.
Yup. You are correct. Public schools twist themselves into pretzels as they explain why spelling instruction is bad.
Anonymous
04/19/2022 17:28
Subject: What can a 2nd grader spell? How. to teach spelling at home?
I use All About Spelling. My kinder is worlds above her peers in spelling right now. My first grader spells better now than most middle schoolers. It’s shocking. The program works really well. My first grader has an impeccable memory and worked through nearly all 7 levels already. My kinder has memory issues and likely is dyslexic and she is a fantastic speller for her grade right now. It’s incredible how well it works. It’s parent intensive though.
Anonymous
04/19/2022 17:21
Subject: What can a 2nd grader spell? How. to teach spelling at home?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP some dyslexia tutors are trained to teach spelling. Try reading these articles to help you with what to look for in a tutor, workbook or program.
How Spelling Supports Reading: And Why It Is More Regular and Predictable Than You May Think (Louisa Moats) https://www.aft.org/sites/default/files/periodicals/Moats.pdf
How Words Cast Their Spell: Spelling Is an Integral Part of Learning the Language, Not a Matter of Memorization (R. Malatesha Joshi, Rebecca Treiman, Suzanne Carreker, and Louisa Moats)
https://www.aft.org/sites/default/files/periodicals/joshi.pdf
A New Model for Teaching High-Frequency Words (Linda Farrell, Michael Hunter, Tina Osenga)
https://www.readingrockets.org/article/new-model-teaching-high-frequency-words
List of Spelling Rules (Suzanne Career):
https://www.pattan.net/getmedia/43bd2c5f-3155-4ead-8774-20c78aeca474/05.Reliable_Spelling_Patterns
My first thought was also dyslexia. My son, now a senior in HS, is dyslexic. He was a horrendous speller in 2nd grade. His teacher didn't care. "Some kids just take longer." DCUM suggested to me that he had dyslexia, which I thought was nuts because he was a good reader (since he knew all the sight words). However, after I started reading about signs of dyslexia, I had him tested and he did indeed have moderate dyslexia.
Our elem school used "Words Their Way", which was a true disaster for our son.
He saw a tutor trained in one of the Orton-Gillingham methods. She was fabulous. It wasn't a quick fix, but he learned strategies on spelling that he still uses today. Her system was The Barton Program.
I think All About Spelling is also O-G. I would stick with it, but you must start in level 1.
Also - someone asked "He can read fine, so why does it matter?" The answer in my son's case: In grades K-2, students are learning to read. In 3rd grade, students begin reading to learn. IF (and this is a big IF) a student cannot sound out words, he/she will begin to struggle and fall behind. This was the case for my son. He could read (but not spell) all the sight words and all the phonics-based words he had "learned" (memorized) in K-1. If you gave him a word he had never seen before, he was not capable of sounding it out due to dyslexia.
Not everything has have a learning disability. There’s nothing that she wrote to suggest dyslexia.
She said he had "no idea how to spell." That may be an exaggeration on her end, but terrible spelling was my son's only sign. He was reading above average in 2nd grade. He learned the sight words because of his intelligence and carried on with confidence as a young reader. (In addition, my DS couldn't remember anything he "learned" under the "Words their way" lessons after the quiz on Friday. There was absolutely no retention.)
Anonymous
04/19/2022 15:11
Subject: What can a 2nd grader spell? How. to teach spelling at home?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP some dyslexia tutors are trained to teach spelling. Try reading these articles to help you with what to look for in a tutor, workbook or program.
How Spelling Supports Reading: And Why It Is More Regular and Predictable Than You May Think (Louisa Moats) https://www.aft.org/sites/default/files/periodicals/Moats.pdf
How Words Cast Their Spell: Spelling Is an Integral Part of Learning the Language, Not a Matter of Memorization (R. Malatesha Joshi, Rebecca Treiman, Suzanne Carreker, and Louisa Moats)
https://www.aft.org/sites/default/files/periodicals/joshi.pdf
A New Model for Teaching High-Frequency Words (Linda Farrell, Michael Hunter, Tina Osenga)
https://www.readingrockets.org/article/new-model-teaching-high-frequency-words
List of Spelling Rules (Suzanne Career):
https://www.pattan.net/getmedia/43bd2c5f-3155-4ead-8774-20c78aeca474/05.Reliable_Spelling_Patterns
My first thought was also dyslexia. My son, now a senior in HS, is dyslexic. He was a horrendous speller in 2nd grade. His teacher didn't care. "Some kids just take longer." DCUM suggested to me that he had dyslexia, which I thought was nuts because he was a good reader (since he knew all the sight words). However, after I started reading about signs of dyslexia, I had him tested and he did indeed have moderate dyslexia.
Our elem school used "Words Their Way", which was a true disaster for our son.
He saw a tutor trained in one of the Orton-Gillingham methods. She was fabulous. It wasn't a quick fix, but he learned strategies on spelling that he still uses today. Her system was The Barton Program.
I think All About Spelling is also O-G. I would stick with it, but you must start in level 1.
Also - someone asked "He can read fine, so why does it matter?" The answer in my son's case: In grades K-2, students are learning to read. In 3rd grade, students begin reading to learn. IF (and this is a big IF) a student cannot sound out words, he/she will begin to struggle and fall behind. This was the case for my son. He could read (but not spell) all the sight words and all the phonics-based words he had "learned" (memorized) in K-1. If you gave him a word he had never seen before, he was not capable of sounding it out due to dyslexia.
Not everything has have a learning disability. There’s nothing that she wrote to suggest dyslexia.
Anonymous
04/19/2022 15:09
Subject: What can a 2nd grader spell? How. to teach spelling at home?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If he can read just fine, why does this matter?
Reading is the best way to learn how to spell. Other than that, just have him practice. Make a list of words you know he can read. Have him practice writing them out. Do this every week or so.
Personally, I'd spend the time having him read though.
Ignore this poster. Spelling matters. It gets harder & harder to teach, so I would absolutely do spelling lessons with him. Second grade is a perfect age. Most kids have awful spelling now since schools don’t do direct spelling instruction.
Np here. We are at a catholic school and our kids have had weekly spelling tests since first grade. Our friends at an independent private have had the same. My friends at dcps whose kids are in 2nd grade have told me they have not had spelling tests yet. I think this is a major failing of the system as spelling and writing well go hand in hand in my opinion.
Anonymous
04/19/2022 13:38
Subject: What can a 2nd grader spell? How. to teach spelling at home?
Anonymous wrote:OP saying thank you all very much--for the encouragement for All About Spelling and for the suggestion of dyslexia. I actually didn't know that it could apply to writing but not to reading, and while I'm not rushing out to get a diagnosis, I will certainly read those articles. Very grateful!
Why do you think he has dyslexia?
Anonymous
04/19/2022 13:37
Subject: What can a 2nd grader spell? How. to teach spelling at home?
Anonymous wrote:If he can read just fine, why does this matter?
Reading is the best way to learn how to spell. Other than that, just have him practice. Make a list of words you know he can read. Have him practice writing them out. Do this every week or so.
Personally, I'd spend the time having him read though.
Ignore this poster. Spelling matters. It gets harder & harder to teach, so I would absolutely do spelling lessons with him. Second grade is a perfect age. Most kids have awful spelling now since schools don’t do direct spelling instruction.
Anonymous
04/18/2022 22:00
Subject: What can a 2nd grader spell? How. to teach spelling at home?
Anonymous wrote:My 2nd grader can read just fine but has no idea how to spell. What's happening in school (Words Their Way and Lexia) does not translate to being able to spell, I am sorry to say, "Food." But I looked at a workbook for 2nd grade and it seemed very basic (vowel blends, consonant blends, obviously some sight words.)
What should a 2nd grader be able to spell?
Do you have any workbooks or approaches to recommend? I got All About Spelling, but it seems kind of byzantine. I get that it's trying to be multi-sensory, but I found it a bit much and not that helpful.
Have you worked with any teachers/tutors in NW DC who can catch a kid up?
Thank you!
With patience and genuine care you can actually have a 2nd grader read, speak and SPELL much more than what the system “expects” them to. Granted, there are no cognitive or psychological impediments that hinder the growth and development.
My kid is 6 and speaks, reads and writes Spanish and English fluently. Above his 1st grade expectations. And I try to teach him te very little and limited French I know.
Anonymous
04/18/2022 21:15
Subject: What can a 2nd grader spell? How. to teach spelling at home?
OP saying thank you all very much--for the encouragement for All About Spelling and for the suggestion of dyslexia. I actually didn't know that it could apply to writing but not to reading, and while I'm not rushing out to get a diagnosis, I will certainly read those articles. Very grateful!
Anonymous
04/18/2022 20:59
Subject: What can a 2nd grader spell? How. to teach spelling at home?
All About Spelling is O-G but moves very, very quickly for a dyslexic person. We have had success with Apples and Pears which is a morpheme based approach used in UK private schools. Every page of the book is available to preview online so you know exactly what you are getting. It’s a lot of writing and repetitive, but seems to help.
Anonymous
04/18/2022 20:43
Subject: What can a 2nd grader spell? How. to teach spelling at home?
Anonymous wrote:OP some dyslexia tutors are trained to teach spelling. Try reading these articles to help you with what to look for in a tutor, workbook or program.
How Spelling Supports Reading: And Why It Is More Regular and Predictable Than You May Think (Louisa Moats) https://www.aft.org/sites/default/files/periodicals/Moats.pdf
How Words Cast Their Spell: Spelling Is an Integral Part of Learning the Language, Not a Matter of Memorization (R. Malatesha Joshi, Rebecca Treiman, Suzanne Carreker, and Louisa Moats)
https://www.aft.org/sites/default/files/periodicals/joshi.pdf
A New Model for Teaching High-Frequency Words (Linda Farrell, Michael Hunter, Tina Osenga)
https://www.readingrockets.org/article/new-model-teaching-high-frequency-words
List of Spelling Rules (Suzanne Career):
https://www.pattan.net/getmedia/43bd2c5f-3155-4ead-8774-20c78aeca474/05.Reliable_Spelling_Patterns
My first thought was also dyslexia. My son, now a senior in HS, is dyslexic. He was a horrendous speller in 2nd grade. His teacher didn't care. "Some kids just take longer." DCUM suggested to me that he had dyslexia, which I thought was nuts because he was a good reader (since he knew all the sight words). However, after I started reading about signs of dyslexia, I had him tested and he did indeed have moderate dyslexia.
Our elem school used "Words Their Way", which was a true disaster for our son.
He saw a tutor trained in one of the Orton-Gillingham methods. She was fabulous. It wasn't a quick fix, but he learned strategies on spelling that he still uses today. Her system was The Barton Program.
I think All About Spelling is also O-G. I would stick with it, but you must start in level 1.
Also - someone asked "He can read fine, so why does it matter?" The answer in my son's case: In grades K-2, students are learning to read. In 3rd grade, students begin reading to learn. IF (and this is a big IF) a student cannot sound out words, he/she will begin to struggle and fall behind. This was the case for my son. He could read (but not spell) all the sight words and all the phonics-based words he had "learned" (memorized) in K-1. If you gave him a word he had never seen before, he was not capable of sounding it out due to dyslexia.
Anonymous
04/18/2022 19:41
Subject: What can a 2nd grader spell? How. to teach spelling at home?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My 2nd grader can read just fine but has no idea how to spell. What's happening in school (Words Their Way and Lexia) does not translate to being able to spell, I am sorry to say, "Food." But I looked at a workbook for 2nd grade and it seemed very basic (vowel blends, consonant blends, obviously some sight words.)
What should a 2nd grader be able to spell?
Do you have any workbooks or approaches to recommend? I got All About Spelling, but it seems kind of byzantine. I get that it's trying to be multi-sensory, but I found it a bit much and not that helpful.
Have you worked with any teachers/tutors in NW DC who can catch a kid up?
Thank you!
Just curious if you started with Level 1 of All About Spelling and how far along you made it? I’ve been using it with my daughter since homeschooling her for K last year. I like that it’s a step by step approach even though it can be tedious. I appreciate that it teaches the reasoning behind spelling. We’ve moved onto Level 3.
Same. It's actually pretty straightforward once you get the hang of it, and learning the spelling rules step by step seems very helpful for my child. OP, if you are overwhelmed by it maybe you could watch some administration videos?