Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:one other thing to consider is a that student is giving up at least 8 and maybe 12 years of compounded interest. if a student were to start working and saving at age 30-32 vs. age 22. he or she will miss out on saving for those years plus the magic of compounded interest.

Is the plumber or the doctor wealthier at 42? Who knows.

Doctor

https://www.wealthmeta.com/blog/being-a-plumber-vs-being-a-doctor-net-worth-simulations

Anonymous wrote:The key to graduate schools is going to in-state or public state schools where the costs are paid largely by the state which reduces the costs for tuition. Once the degree is completed, then go to private universities for internships, fellowships, or graduate teaching assistants reduces your costs and increases your teaching experiences.

Yes, for research based graduate school. For professional graduate school (I.e. med school or pharmacy school) you have to pay your own tuition.

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Just as an example, there is a serious shortage of vets. My DD is a junior in college and has been taking a pre-vet curriculum and has done well academically. She worked at a vet’s office in high school and it is all she has ever wanted to do, but after a ton of research and discussions with practicing vets, she is pivoting to considering other paths because the debt to income ratio is terrifying. We saved and were able to put her through college without borrowing any money, and are not low income enough that she could qualify for any kind of need based grants, but we can’t help her further because we have to ensure our retirement savings are secure. I’m sad for her of course, but the societal impacts of this playing out across a lot of professions are profound.

If she really understands what it’s like to be a vet (example: putting animals to sleep, and getting bitten) and is OK with that, she should just borrow the money and be a vet. There will be a lot of inflation, and the inflation means the value of fixed-rate debt will be a lot lower than it looks today.

Kids shouldn’t take on a lot of debt for a graduate degree where the career path is fuzzy (example: art, or law), but it’s obvious that a good vet can get a great job. The only question is what the income-to-loan-payment ratio will be. But your daughter doesn’t have any huge fixed costs, and it sounds as if she won’t have to support you when you’re older. Your daughter should just take a leap of faith and fill her brain with the knowledge she wants to put in her brain, even if that means taking on a lot of debt.

This whole thread is an example of why kids who can gamble on a high-value professional degree should make that bet. Obviously, scarcity is about to increase the lifetime value of many types of professional degrees.

The key to graduate schools is going to in-state or public state schools where the costs are paid largely by the state which reduces the costs for tuition. Once the degree is completed, then go to private universities for internships, fellowships, or graduate teaching assistants reduces your costs and increases your teaching experiences.

Anonymous wrote:one other thing to consider is a that student is giving up at least 8 and maybe 12 years of compounded interest. if a student were to start working and saving at age 30-32 vs. age 22. he or she will miss out on saving for those years plus the magic of compounded interest.

Is the plumber or the doctor wealthier at 42? Who knows.

one other thing to consider is a that student is giving up at least 8 and maybe 12 years of compounded interest. if a student were to start working and saving at age 30-32 vs. age 22. he or she will miss out on saving for those years plus the magic of compounded interest.

I quit law to go to nursing school. I make double my law salary as a travel nurse. It’s hard work, but it’s 36 hours a week and no after hours commitments.

Mamas, don’t let your babies grow up to be lawyers.

In college there’s AP credits, working during school, etc. Few such tricks exist for vet school or med school.

The med school process is unnecessarily classist in my opinion with requiring applicants to apply an entire year before they’d matriculate and requiring them to fly to interviews. But neither practice has deterred demand for spots.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Just as an example, there is a serious shortage of vets. My DD is a junior in college and has been taking a pre-vet curriculum and has done well academically. She worked at a vet’s office in high school and it is all she has ever wanted to do, but after a ton of research and discussions with practicing vets, she is pivoting to considering other paths because the debt to income ratio is terrifying. We saved and were able to put her through college without borrowing any money, and are not low income enough that she could qualify for any kind of need based grants, but we can’t help her further because we have to ensure our retirement savings are secure. I’m sad for her of course, but the societal impacts of this playing out across a lot of professions are profound.

This is nothing new. 20 years ago I set my vet dreams aside for the law, because of the ratio of debt to prospective income. I went to a top 3 law school and still had significant debt, but I continued living like a student and paid it off in a few years.

The golden handcuffs are real.

Yet there are constantly threads complaining about vet costs here. The debt plus the sheer capital investment to have a practice are astronomical. My vet was out last week and was trying a new ultrasound he had to get…$30k. Makes my $150 horse uterine scan seem really rather cheap!

That was 20 years ago.

Yes, it’s even worse now than the bleak picture that the PP described.

In fact, I think Vanderbilt has a higher big law % than Georgetown. And the others are like within 5%

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The student must choose wisely. And then the student must spend wisely after graduating, paying down the debt as quickly as possible, avoid being trapped by the "golden handcuffs."

I attended a T14, borrowed it all, and paid it off in a few years in BigLaw. No regrets. My general opinion is T14-or-bust, and that has been my advice to my kids. (Sure, for some people, lower rank on a giant scholarship may make sense, if they intend to practice local to the law school - depends on what the person's goal is. But to have one's career options wide open, then T14.)

It is T25 and even then all theway to T50 if you are at the top of the class. Real question though is not at the top of class at a lower school -- do you just frop it after first year?

Yes!!! I wouldn't go to any school outside of T14, but if you really want to go, you need to be at the very top of the class.

Why the arbitrary cutoff at t14? Georgetown had essentially the same employment stats as Vanderbilt, UCLA, Texas, etc

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Just as an example, there is a serious shortage of vets. My DD is a junior in college and has been taking a pre-vet curriculum and has done well academically. She worked at a vet’s office in high school and it is all she has ever wanted to do, but after a ton of research and discussions with practicing vets, she is pivoting to considering other paths because the debt to income ratio is terrifying. We saved and were able to put her through college without borrowing any money, and are not low income enough that she could qualify for any kind of need based grants, but we can’t help her further because we have to ensure our retirement savings are secure. I’m sad for her of course, but the societal impacts of this playing out across a lot of professions are profound.

This is nothing new. 20 years ago I set my vet dreams aside for the law, because of the ratio of debt to prospective income. I went to a top 3 law school and still had significant debt, but I continued living like a student and paid it off in a few years.

The golden handcuffs are real.

Yet there are constantly threads complaining about vet costs here. The debt plus the sheer capital investment to have a practice are astronomical. My vet was out last week and was trying a new ultrasound he had to get…$30k. Makes my $150 horse uterine scan seem really rather cheap!

That was 20 years ago.

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Just as an example, there is a serious shortage of vets. My DD is a junior in college and has been taking a pre-vet curriculum and has done well academically. She worked at a vet’s office in high school and it is all she has ever wanted to do, but after a ton of research and discussions with practicing vets, she is pivoting to considering other paths because the debt to income ratio is terrifying. We saved and were able to put her through college without borrowing any money, and are not low income enough that she could qualify for any kind of need based grants, but we can’t help her further because we have to ensure our retirement savings are secure. I’m sad for her of course, but the societal impacts of this playing out across a lot of professions are profound.

This is nothing new. 20 years ago I set my vet dreams aside for the law, because of the ratio of debt to prospective income. I went to a top 3 law school and still had significant debt, but I continued living like a student and paid it off in a few years.

The golden handcuffs are real.

Yet there are constantly threads complaining about vet costs here. The debt plus the sheer capital investment to have a practice are astronomical. My vet was out last week and was trying a new ultrasound he had to get…$30k. Makes my $150 horse uterine scan seem really rather cheap!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The student must choose wisely. And then the student must spend wisely after graduating, paying down the debt as quickly as possible, avoid being trapped by the "golden handcuffs."

I attended a T14, borrowed it all, and paid it off in a few years in BigLaw. No regrets. My general opinion is T14-or-bust, and that has been my advice to my kids. (Sure, for some people, lower rank on a giant scholarship may make sense, if they intend to practice local to the law school - depends on what the person's goal is. But to have one's career options wide open, then T14.)

It is T25 and even then all theway to T50 if you are at the top of the class. Real question though is not at the top of class at a lower school -- do you just frop it after first year?

Yes!!! I wouldn't go to any school outside of T14, but if you really want to go, you need to be at the very top of the class.

Unfortunately we live in a country where the top priority is maintaining a bloated military establishment. With that absorbing so much if our national resources, higher education does not get funded the way it does in most first world nations.