Anonymous wrote:Define an alcoholic… I’m interested in what a person’s definition is of an alcoholic.

Here’s the legal definition…

Alcoholism is an illness marked by consumption of alcoholic beverages at a level that interferes with physical or mental health, and social, family, or occupational responsibilities. Alcoholism is a type of addiction.

It's not about the amount of alcohol that is consumed.

It’s not about the frequency that alcohol is consumed.

It’s about the level impairment that the person drinking experiences and their inability to stop drinking even though they are risking their health, safety, relationships, careers, and reputation.

In short, if your spouse tells you how hard it is to live with you because of your drinking, and you won’t stop, you’ve got a problem.

Define an alcoholic… I’m interested in what a person’s definition is of an alcoholic.

Here’s the legal definition…

Alcoholism is an illness marked by consumption of alcoholic beverages at a level that interferes with physical or mental health, and social, family, or occupational responsibilities. Alcoholism is a type of addiction.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should divorce an alcoholic

Holy overreaction alert. Yikes.

Hopefully the person that said “ You should divorce an alcoholic” never gets called for jury duty. The defendant doesn’t stand a chance.

Anonymous wrote:The tone of this board towards people with alcohol use disorder is just insane.

The advice literally every time is just - oh f him, divorce.

Its hurtful, its not even based in medical evidence, and its wrong.

If the person with the addiction is actively seeking or in treatment, its a complete world of difference over someone in denial or not trying to fix the issue.

I say that as someone with 3 yrs sobriety.

I so agree!

-5 years sober

My mother realized she was married to an alcoholic when their first offspring was about a year old. There was a job loss, financial problems, a messy car accident and financial problems all stemming from alcohol abuse. She threatened to leave him and he made the decision to join AA, which he was very successful with. He regained his career, they had four more kids and stayed married for decades until my mother's death.

Out of five siblings, two have been married to or had long term partners who were alcoholics or addicted to drugs (medical profession); two have had later stage alcohol problems, and one (me) is known to drink too much from time to time.

This is all anecdotal, but I wish you the best, OP. I've heard good things about Alanon and AA literally saved my father's life. He died ten years ago and I miss him a great deal.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Abuse, Addiction, Adultery = Divorce

Addiction can be much more complex and not always an automatic, simple "divorce." Have you ever loved, liked and treasured someone who was not cheating, not abusive, a good person, with so much positive to offer (and being offered daily), who also could not cope without whatever substance dulls that person's very individual mental or emotional or physical pain? I'm guessing you have not. Just rabbiting on about "addiction = divorce" is so very, very simplistic. Real humans, and real love, are not that simplistic. But that's DCUM for you: Reduce everything to a formula and claim it can be applied everywhere, all the time, to every situation.

Alcoholic and not abusive is doing some heavy lifting …. by its nature alcoholism abuses the non-alcoholic family members because alcoholism almost always comes with some of the following - lying, blame-shifting, not meeting responsibilities, manipulating, taking advantage of someone, etc.

If you know someone who has been an alcoholic without doing those things, then I think you have found a unicorn.

And, BTW, just because we divorce an alcoholic, doesn’t mean we don’t love them. TBH, the most loving thing I could do was divorce my alcoholic spouse - it woke him the f%£? up and he started to take treatment seriously.

Divorcing my alcoholic spouse also was the most loving thing I could do for my kids. They grew up without addiction in the household. Safe. With a healthy parent teaching and modeling about substance abuse. Both of them reached college without substance abuse, and, knock on wood, will avoid that fate. If that turns out to be true, divorcing their dad will have broken a 3 generation cycle of alcoholism.

It was the most loving thing I could do.

I divorced mine. I think it's a good option if he isn't actively recovering. Especially if you DON'T have kids, get out now. It's a lifetime of hurt if you don't.

As my mother told me while I agonized over the decision to divorce, "You can always remarry him later if you want to." So far that hasn't happened.

Anonymous wrote:The tone of this board towards people with alcohol use disorder is just insane.

The advice literally every time is just - oh f him, divorce.

Its hurtful, its not even based in medical evidence, and its wrong.

If the person with the addiction is actively seeking or in treatment, its a complete world of difference over someone in denial or not trying to fix the issue.

I say that as someone with 3 yrs sobriety.

Congratulations on your sobriety. I suspect if OP’s husband were in treatment it wouldn’t be an aha moment that he’s an alcoholic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What defines an alcoholic on this forum? A beer every night? Or downing an entire bottle of vodka a night? Or a glass of wine a week?

Cause almost every post here has been about how “my spouse is an alcoholic”.

Uh, mine referred to himself as an alcoholic. Once he started drinking he couldn't stop. Went out for dinner and had 9 cocktails, but got high first. Does that meet your test?

I’m PP. got it. Yeah that’s a major problem. I only asked because some people here consider a 3-5 beers a week as “alcoholic”. But 9 cocktails in one night is definitely a problem.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What defines an alcoholic on this forum? A beer every night? Or downing an entire bottle of vodka a night? Or a glass of wine a week?

Cause almost every post here has been about how “my spouse is an alcoholic”.

Uh, mine referred to himself as an alcoholic. Once he started drinking he couldn't stop. Went out for dinner and had 9 cocktails, but got high first. Does that meet your test?

NP. Yours does sound like an alcoholic. My non drinking family refers to my cousin who will have 2-3 beers at a BBQ and maybe only drinks 1 day a week- an alcoholic. They couldn't believe that my cousin and her husband had a WHOLE bottle of wine at Christmas dinner. You know- 4 glasses for 2 people.

Anonymous wrote:Abuse, Addiction, Adultery = Divorce

Addiction can be much more complex and not always an automatic, simple "divorce." Have you ever loved, liked and treasured someone who was not cheating, not abusive, a good person, with so much positive to offer (and being offered daily), who also could not cope without whatever substance dulls that person's very individual mental or emotional or physical pain? I'm guessing you have not. Just rabbiting on about "addiction = divorce" is so very, very simplistic. Real humans, and real love, are not that simplistic. But that's DCUM for you: Reduce everything to a formula and claim it can be applied everywhere, all the time, to every situation.

Anonymous wrote:What defines an alcoholic on this forum? A beer every night? Or downing an entire bottle of vodka a night? Or a glass of wine a week?

Cause almost every post here has been about how “my spouse is an alcoholic”.

Uh, mine referred to himself as an alcoholic. Once he started drinking he couldn't stop. Went out for dinner and had 9 cocktails, but got high first. Does that meet your test?

Abuse, Addiction, Adultery = Divorce

Divorce him

If he gets his act together and stays sober for several years, if you're both available then and wanted, you could get remarried.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The tone of this board towards people with alcohol use disorder is just insane.

The advice literally every time is just - oh f him, divorce.

Its hurtful, its not even based in medical evidence, and its wrong.

If the person with the addiction is actively seeking or in treatment, its a complete world of difference over someone in denial or not trying to fix the issue.

I say that as someone with 3 yrs sobriety.

The alcoholic doesn’t want the divorce. Because it’s always about the alcoholic, their needs, their problems.

+1. Ex-wife of an alcoholic here. I get what the three years sober poster says - my kids are at high risk for mental illness and substance abuse, and I would never want someone to look at them and say automatic divorce if they happened to develop an alcohol problem.

And yet, having had the experience with their Dad….. I don’t even think the alcoholic understands the havoc they have wrought, let alone make amends. Amends, IME, seems to be an apology, with the expectation of the obligation of acceptance and no effort to make reparations. I have lost so much by allowing myself to get tangled up with DH, and my kids have been so deeply hurt. When we first met and I learned of his long family history of alcoholism, I should have run in the opposite direction without looking back.

“Actively seeking treatment” is a really low bar. It takes years and a lot of work and the ability to have critical self-insight for an alcoholic to come to a place where they can be a healthy relationship partner. IME, much of that time while the alcoholic is “actively seeking treatment”, the family that surrounds the alcoholic is both doing work on their behalf and suffer harm from them. It is a tremendous drain and wound that I think goes un acknowledged and unaddressed and means that those family members are not able to focus on themselves and their own development.

That is why I divorced. Because I recognized that to stay together was to continue to expose ourselves to that drain of resources and energy and to continue to put ourselves at risk. I am sure I will be criticized as unsympathetic for saying so, but that is our truth.