Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Test optional is a smokescreen to perpetuate admission discrimination and everyone knows it. Can’t wait for the Supreme Court to rule on these “holistic” policies. Low achievers love them but I hope everyone who supports test optional chooses a degree optional doctor for their next major surgery.

So, what's your definition of a "low achiever" who gets into a top 20 school without submitting a test score? Obviously, they bring other sterling credentials outside of sitting for a 3 hour test.

Your race and the educational attainment of your *parent(s)* are not credentials.

what if they're an athlete with low test scores getting in on their ability to throw a ball?

At least that's skill that required some degree of discipline and work on top of raw talent.

Skin tone requires no such thing, nor does the fact that my dad went to trade school.

so getting through medical school and residency wouldn't also demonstrate some degree of discipline and work? Your argument is getting worse, not better.

Anonymous wrote:With so much grade inflation, there is really no other way to gauge how a student actually performs other than some sort of test everyone has to take. We have to find some middle ground between the wealthy who can game the system and the poor who now get to game the system by not having to report a score.

I think the 10 million free resources provided to prep for the test accomplishes this, but it will never be enough. You can assign a high achieving student to be a proxy and take the test for a low income student and somehow it won't be enough. Because maybe you had to go to a website to sign up for the service and there are way too many barriers to accomplish this. (To be clear, it is not the low income families saying this. It's the agenda pushers.)

What would actually need to change is the inherent culture around academics/professionalism/achievement among their families, and that's not a thing that can be manufactured. And should it be? Is there something wrong with having a different worldview and priorities?

It's less that wealthy students are taking advantage of testing than wealthy students have no choice but to take the test.

They have no chance in hell if they go test optional. For the more selective schools.

Anonymous wrote:Test optional is a smokescreen to perpetuate admission discrimination and everyone knows it. Can’t wait for the Supreme Court to rule on these “holistic” policies. Low achievers love them but I hope everyone who supports test optional chooses a degree optional doctor for their next major surgery.

Walk me through how you see the Supreme Court decision going.

The Supreme Court is going to mandate that colleges use a test?

With so much grade inflation, there is really no other way to gauge how a student actually performs other than some sort of test everyone has to take. We have to find some middle ground between the wealthy who can game the system and the poor who now get to game the system by not having to report a score.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Years ago an admissions officer told me that like braces, a high test score mostly just tells you that the family has money.

Yup. Direct correlation between income and standardized test scores.

GPA too as well as access to most impressive outside activities so....???

As well as good coaching on writing essays. EVERYTHING in the process favors higher income students. Test scores are actually one of the few areas where a really determined, under-resourced student can put in the time with Khan Academy to work on bringing up their score.

Test optional sucks ASS!!!

Anonymous wrote:Test optional is a smokescreen to perpetuate admission discrimination and everyone knows it. Can’t wait for the Supreme Court to rule on these “holistic” policies. Low achievers love them but I hope everyone who supports test optional chooses a degree optional doctor for their next major surgery.

I'm sure you'd be singing the same tune if your kid(s) scored low, right? Of course not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Test optional is a smokescreen to perpetuate admission discrimination and everyone knows it. Can’t wait for the Supreme Court to rule on these “holistic” policies. Low achievers love them but I hope everyone who supports test optional chooses a degree optional doctor for their next major surgery.

So, what's your definition of a "low achiever" who gets into a top 20 school without submitting a test score? Obviously, they bring other sterling credentials outside of sitting for a 3 hour test.

Your race and the educational attainment of your *parent(s)* are not credentials.

what if they're an athlete with low test scores getting in on their ability to throw a ball?

At least that's skill that required some degree of discipline and work on top of raw talent.

Skin tone requires no such thing, nor does the fact that my dad went to trade school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Test optional is a smokescreen to perpetuate admission discrimination and everyone knows it. Can’t wait for the Supreme Court to rule on these “holistic” policies. Low achievers love them but I hope everyone who supports test optional chooses a degree optional doctor for their next major surgery.

In a world of dumb points, this one is way up there. Are you currently asking your doctor for a standardized test score they took when they were 16? And using that as a proxy for their medical talent? You deserve the results of all your bad decisions.

I absolutely check where my prospective doctors went to undergrad, med school and residency. I did this yesterday when looking for a rheumatologist, in fact.

They wouldn't get into Yale, Vanderbilt or Northwestern undergrad in the first place with a 21 ACT. So do I know their exact SAT? No, but I know they did undergrad at a top school and reasonable conclusions can be drawn about their "standardized test score when they were 16": it was high!

Do I know their MCAT? Still no -- but if that MCAT was shit, we can all agree that Stanford medical school wouldn't have selected them. And so on.

While we're on the topic, I also don't want the vision impaired pilot, the firefighter with no upper body strength who uses a cane, or the trial attorney with a profound speech apraxia.

Strong correlation between test scores and general intelligence. It’s funny how the people who complain incessantly about standardized tests are inevitably low performers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Test optional is a smokescreen to perpetuate admission discrimination and everyone knows it. Can’t wait for the Supreme Court to rule on these “holistic” policies. Low achievers love them but I hope everyone who supports test optional chooses a degree optional doctor for their next major surgery.

So, what's your definition of a "low achiever" who gets into a top 20 school without submitting a test score? Obviously, they bring other sterling credentials outside of sitting for a 3 hour test.

Your race and the educational attainment of your *parent(s)* are not credentials.

what if they're an athlete with low test scores getting in on their ability to throw a ball?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Test optional is a smokescreen to perpetuate admission discrimination and everyone knows it. Can’t wait for the Supreme Court to rule on these “holistic” policies. Low achievers love them but I hope everyone who supports test optional chooses a degree optional doctor for their next major surgery.

So, what's your definition of a "low achiever" who gets into a top 20 school without submitting a test score? Obviously, they bring other sterling credentials outside of sitting for a 3 hour test.

Your race and the educational attainment of your *parent(s)* are not credentials.

Anonymous wrote:Test optional is a smokescreen to perpetuate admission discrimination and everyone knows it. Can’t wait for the Supreme Court to rule on these “holistic” policies. Low achievers love them but I hope everyone who supports test optional chooses a degree optional doctor for their next major surgery.

In a world of dumb points, this one is way up there. Are you currently asking your doctor for a standardized test score they took when they were 16? And using that as a proxy for their medical talent? You deserve the results of all your bad decisions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Years ago an admissions officer told me that like braces, a high test score mostly just tells you that the family has money.

Yup. Direct correlation between income and standardized test scores.

GPA too as well as access to most impressive outside activities so....???