PP, does your school have a science fair for second graders? Now I really think my child's school sucks! Before, I was just suspicious.

Can't speak for all schools, but Louise Archer's science fair is open to all students. Though, there were only about 5 or 6 2nd grade projects (out of 50 kids) (voluntary for k-2), the majority of the kids I saw at the LA AAP orientation (from LA) did them. My DD did one on her own...minimal help from me (I typed up her writing so it would look nice, but it was her writing).

PP, does your school have a science fair for second graders? Now I really think my child's school sucks! Before, I was just suspicious.

Yeah, at Louise Archer the science fair is for the entire school. Mandatory for the kids in the Center, but my 2nd-grader did it this year as well.

I found this document online and although it is a bit dated, it does give some information about appeals. Look at page 11 of the document. It appears that test scores make a huge difference in the appeal. It appears that students were more likely to get in if they submitted new test scores (although I'm sure students with high test scores were more likely to submit them). It shows that in 2004-2005, 100 people with new test scores appealed and 92 of them got in. 156 people with no test scores appealed and 60 got in. Here is the link:

http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/board.nsf/39c6389c088be51585256e56000c1bf2/2b1b2b585a5d305e852570fb004f3f9f/$FILE/Gifted%20and%20Talented%20Center%20Program.pdf

PP, does your school have a science fair for second graders? Now I really think my child's school sucks! Before, I was just suspicious.

Since the thread is titled "appeals," lets talk appeal. How much influence does the school have on the appeal process? It would seem that it would not have much because the GBRS is its input, right? So sucking up to the AART is of no use to me now that the school already trashed my child, right?

What are the best things to put in the appeal package?

I have WISC scores.

AART suggested the most recent report card. (I could also throw in the honor roll certificate, but if they see the report, don't they know DC is on honor roll?).

Do I put DC through the torture of a new writing sample? (I haven't seen what the school submitted. The AART "forgot" to pull it for me when I met with her. Do you think this means they sent a crappy one?) The AART suggested having DC write a writing sample at home. I question the value of that. Wouldn't the committee assume we helped her edit it? The AART told us to have her write a first draft and copy it onto clean paper, but not to correct "every" mistake. So I assume people must edit them, which defeats the purpose, right?

Sent in 2 non-FCPS teacher recommendations (K and 1st grade teachers from another school) with the original packet. Obviously, they didn't weigh them heavily. Do I bother with more?

Any other ideas?

I don't know exactly what else you could put in. I think the WISC scores will be of primary importance. And while it may be torture to make DC do another writing sample, if that is what the AART recommended, I would go ahead and do it. If you don't do it and the appeal is denied, you won't know if that had anything to do with it, but you'll be kicking yourself (at least I know I would). And frankly, it seems that in the Center all they do is write, so if your child really loathes writing, it may not be a good fit. It's a very writing-intensive program.

Has your child done any school projects recently that you could submit or photograph, like something really cool for the science fair, etc?

Anonymous wrote:
AAP is not a a pool restricted by maximum enrollment. They take in as many as are eligible. So PP, you should not worry about other kids because they are not the reason why your child was denied.

I don't think people worry that other children got into a Center which, in turn, resulted their child being denied. I think they feel that GBRS may not accurately represent their child, and that the committee puts too much weight on GBRS scores. This may result in children who are in need of services being denied.

Since the thread is titled "appeals," lets talk appeal. How much influence does the school have on the appeal process? It would seem that it would not have much because the GBRS is its input, right? So sucking up to the AART is of no use to me now that the school already trashed my child, right?

What are the best things to put in the appeal package?

I have WISC scores.

AART suggested the most recent report card. (I could also throw in the honor roll certificate, but if they see the report, don't they know DC is on honor roll?).

Do I put DC through the torture of a new writing sample? (I haven't seen what the school submitted. The AART "forgot" to pull it for me when I met with her. Do you think this means they sent a crappy one?) The AART suggested having DC write a writing sample at home. I question the value of that. Wouldn't the committee assume we helped her edit it? The AART told us to have her write a first draft and copy it onto clean paper, but not to correct "every" mistake. So I assume people must edit them, which defeats the purpose, right?

Sent in 2 non-FCPS teacher recommendations (K and 1st grade teachers from another school) with the original packet. Obviously, they didn't weigh them heavily. Do I bother with more?

Any other ideas?

I imagine test prep can only help so much, though. Seriously someone with a 139 and 150 even if they were prepped has to be pretty darn bright.

No, they are not. The CogAT and NNAT are ability tests, not IQ tests, so the scores do not directly correlate with IQ.

Furthermore google cogat test prep. It is possible to "prep" your child for the cogat's. This (IMHO) would be gaming he system. Frankly, I could not imagine sending my 2nd grader in for test prep, but I bet some people do just that.

...I just don't see how someone with 130s through 150 scores being excluded.

are these essentially IQ scores? if so, i agree.

No, they are not. The CogAT and NNAT are ability tests, not IQ tests, so the scores do not directly correlate with IQ.

However, there are two tests that parents can choose to have administered and that FCPS will accept. They are the WISC-IV and the Stanford-Binet. Those are IQ tests.

We just got his WISC testing done and here are the scores -
VCI - 121 - 92 % (superior)
Perceptual - 135 - 99 (Very superior)
working memory - 123 - 94% (superior)
processing speed - 118 - 88% (high average)
Full scale - 132 - 98% (Very superior) .

his WISC is 132 = his IQ is 132. that's quite gifted (Very superior) to me.

Actually forget the GBRS. Just go by grades. MY DD had straight Os in Kindergarten and !st grade. Why test her? Why run a GBRS. Just put her in. There is areason why they look at many things not just one.

AAP is not a a pool restricted by maximum enrollment. They take in as many as are eligible. So PP, you should not worry about other kids because they are not the reason why your child was denied.

And if you believe the teachers were unfair in the GBRS then you should focus on the appeal. That is why an appeals process was set up. And more than half the appeals are successful. Good luck!

I think grades at this level can also be subjective....heck grades at any level are subjective. I know one of my professors in the first year of grad school never graded my final....He put it on to of the file cabinet; he could not see it but I could.

As for appealing, be ready to make the best case. For us, I was ready to have a full on evaluation to show that the test scores to not represent her "giftedness", but did not need to.

One other thing, AAP is not appropriate for all children, even smart ones. I know one child (on my softball team) who is very smart, but would not be good in the GT environment...she feels the need to do everything perfectly and would drown under the effort.

are these essentially IQ scores? if so, i agree.

No, they are not. The CogAT and NNAT are ability tests, not IQ tests, so the scores do not directly correlate with IQ.

However, there are two tests that parents can choose to have administered and that FCPS will accept. They are the WISC-IV and the Stanford-Binet. Those are IQ tests.

Anonymous wrote:...I just don't see how someone with 130s through 150 scores being excluded.

are these essentially IQ scores? if so, i agree.

PP, I can't tell. Were you agreeing with or arguing against the blue quoted text?

Anonymous wrote:It isn't black and white.


Test scores should help schools to identify gifted kids who weren't previously recognized as such, but those scores don't really seem to do much except get a child into the pool.

Low GBRS appears to be enough to keep children out of services. On these boards, I've only seen one report where a child got in with high test scores, yet low GBRS. There are a plethora of those who got in with "low" test scores, but a high GBRS.

Obviously, it is a tough job for the selection committee. There are many shades of gray. But there are cracks and gifted children are falling through.

Actually forget the GBRS. Just go by grades. MY DD had straight Os in Kindergarten and !st grade. Why test her? Why run a GBRS. Just put her in. There is areason why they look at many things not just one.

AAP is not a a pool restricted by maximum enrollment. They take in as many as are eligible. So PP, you should not worry about other kids because they are not the reason why your child was denied.

And if you believe the teachers were unfair in the GBRS then you should focus on the appeal. That is why an appeals process was set up. And more than half the appeals are successful. Good luck!