Anonymous wrote:OP, unless it is a long drive, just hit it and quit it. Keep it short and sweet so there is no time to be awkward. Unless she straight up disinvites you, just keep it superficial and shorten the visit.

This made me LOL and I desperately needed that laugh!! Thank you. I am not OP, but we keep visits short, sweet and in public to keep mom behaving and to have some connection to her without LOSING.MY.MIND! Now to psych myself up for the next visit I will keep chanting in head..."Just hit it and quit it! You've got this!"

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, why are people so...people-y?

I'd just make different plans. "I am sorry you feel that way, I enjoy our visits. Larla and I are going to take the dog hiking tomorrow instead, let me know if you'd like to reschedule for another weekend."

And then maybe make plans to do something together? The weather is nice now, go for a walk, have lunch together outside, plant flowers. Sitting around talking gets old.

This is what I"d do, as well. And, I'd add that "if you would like to talk more specifically about whatever your concern is, we can do that. Until then, and until you would like to reschedule, I don't know what else we can do for you."

If you're just now seeing your mom as a toxic narcissist, maybe she had dementia? Try to get her some help. It's she's always been this, her therapy and peirce your DD from her. You don't have to play her games

Grandma can suggest activities too! How come my dad would always take kids to tennis, or park or ice cream or ask them what they wanted to do?

Your mom is playing victim games and she is the star of her own drama.
Surely, this is not the first time she pulled something like this? If this is unusual behavior for her, is she exhibiting some dementia traits?
No adult with any brain should blame an 11 year old for not connecting. Nobody but an emotional vampire. She literarily told you, her granddaughter needs to fulfill some emotional void of hers.
Heck, no.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you explain this to your kid though?

I mean seriously Fuk the grumpy manipulative grandma, what about the kid???

When my kid was young I would explain that grandma sometimes struggled with big feelings, just like kids do, and that I had empathy for that but would always make the decision that made the most sense for our family. As she got older I was able to explain more clearly about the dynamic and why I chose to handle it the way I did. My kid is pretty savvy about these sorts of things now and in some ways I think she's benefitted from dealing with someone like my mom because I'm sure she will meet other people like this in life.

Would I have preferred she have an emotionally mature grandmother who understood how to manage her own needs and emotions without manipulation and sympathy-seeking? Of course. But it is what it is and I've made the most of it.

That is SO going to bite you in the ass later.

What on earth do you recommend then? Lying? Gaslighting? All you can really do is be matter of fact about it and hold yourself to a higher standard than your own mother held herself too. You can't change your mom and you can't totally wall your kid or yourself off from her without causing other problems.

+1000

I guess I'm an outlier b/c my first thought is that your mom has the stereotypical old-person anxiety. She feels awkward about the dead silence after conversation has ended and there's not much else to say. She probably feels like an inadequate host b/c you're bored . She's trying to give you an "out" by calling you b/c that would help her feel better about not you visiting.

It might seem silly that she's so focused and anxious about a visit that has such long dead silences. For most of us, we're content sitting quietly or just being in the same room watching tv.. We don't have to be talking to show that we (still) enjoy each other's company.
But old people are wired differently. Their perception of a "nice visit" is actively engaging in conversation, telling stories, etc
. I'm guess your mom also offers food and drink ad nauseum?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you explain this to your kid though?

I mean seriously Fuk the grumpy manipulative grandma, what about the kid???

When my kid was young I would explain that grandma sometimes struggled with big feelings, just like kids do, and that I had empathy for that but would always make the decision that made the most sense for our family. As she got older I was able to explain more clearly about the dynamic and why I chose to handle it the way I did. My kid is pretty savvy about these sorts of things now and in some ways I think she's benefitted from dealing with someone like my mom because I'm sure she will meet other people like this in life.

Would I have preferred she have an emotionally mature grandmother who understood how to manage her own needs and emotions without manipulation and sympathy-seeking? Of course. But it is what it is and I've made the most of it.

That is SO going to bite you in the ass later.

What on earth do you recommend then? Lying? Gaslighting? All you can really do is be matter of fact about it and hold yourself to a higher standard than your own mother held herself too. You can't change your mom and you can't totally wall your kid or yourself off from her without causing other problems.

OP, unless it is a long drive, just hit it and quit it. Keep it short and sweet so there is no time to be awkward. Unless she straight up disinvites you, just keep it superficial and shorten the visit.

Anonymous wrote:If it were me, I’d ask your mother directly why she is purposely undermining her relationship with your daughter. Be clear that you will not relay to your daughter the complaints your mother expressed (she clearly wants you to). Daughter is 11 and has been a perfectly lovely guest in your opinion and you won’t burden your daughter with mislaid guilt. And speaking of hurtful, I’d tell your mother that her criticisms of your daughter are also very hurtful so you’ll gladly take a break rather than risk exposing your child to Manipulative, abusive behavior by an adult who is supposed to be a loving grandparent.

Different poster, but this is advice when the person is rational. I used to try this sort of thing and it set off rage fits. If you want to be in your parent's life without major dramatics you learn how to work it. OP, have you read Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents? Very useful.

If it were me, I’d ask your mother directly why she is purposely undermining her relationship with your daughter. Be clear that you will not relay to your daughter the complaints your mother expressed (she clearly wants you to). Daughter is 11 and has been a perfectly lovely guest in your opinion and you won’t burden your daughter with mislaid guilt. And speaking of hurtful, I’d tell your mother that her criticisms of your daughter are also very hurtful so you’ll gladly take a break rather than risk exposing your child to Manipulative, abusive behavior by an adult who is supposed to be a loving grandparent.

Anonymous wrote:Can you suggest an activity together instead? I dread visiting my in laws because we just sit. Could you go on a walk, visit something like the zoo, do a craft together, bake cookies, etc?

I'd say this is a good idea. Another would be for your mm and DD to spend an afternoon together doing something. 3 people all different generations "connecting" by sitting in a living room chatting doesn't sound to me like a thing. It sounds really, really, really dull. For that matter, why in the living room instead of at a kitchen table where you are physically closer?

She is being manipulative. Don't go. Do a fun activity with your daughter and if she asks why you didn't visit grandma say grandma cancelled.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you explain this to your kid though?

I mean seriously Fuk the grumpy manipulative grandma, what about the kid???

When my kid was young I would explain that grandma sometimes struggled with big feelings, just like kids do, and that I had empathy for that but would always make the decision that made the most sense for our family. As she got older I was able to explain more clearly about the dynamic and why I chose to handle it the way I did. My kid is pretty savvy about these sorts of things now and in some ways I think she's benefitted from dealing with someone like my mom because I'm sure she will meet other people like this in life.

Would I have preferred she have an emotionally mature grandmother who understood how to manage her own needs and emotions without manipulation and sympathy-seeking? Of course. But it is what it is and I've made the most of it.

That is SO going to bite you in the ass later.

Anonymous wrote:I used to reinforce this stuff with my mom and it got worse. Now my response would be

Me: "Just to be clear, you don't want us to come, is that correct?"

Mom: fish for compliments, fish for compliments.

Me: I am at work and have to go because I have a meeting. I need a final answer. Do you want us to come or not?"

Mom: "Yes, come."

Then when I see her I am cheerful and do not mention the interaction. If she gets too needy, negative and manipulative I say "Great seeing you mom! We have to leave for X, Y, Z"

+1 I put on my game face and do the same thing. I refuse to play those games.