Anonymous
01/20/2022 13:20
Subject: HB Woodlawn -- High School Only
Anonymous wrote:Look, Arlington Public Schools is big on magnet programs at all levels, and HB is considered the jewel among them. They're not about to throw out the baby with the bathwater. As another poster has noted, HB does a lot of things to make the model work, and they can't just change it into a 4th high school. I get it -- you're jealous of its existence.
Let me be VERY clear. Arlington has ZERO magnets. All schools are lottery.
Anonymous
01/20/2022 13:19
Subject: HB Woodlawn -- High School Only
Anonymous wrote:Look, Arlington Public Schools is big on magnet programs at all levels, and HB is considered the jewel among them. They're not about to throw out the baby with the bathwater. As another poster has noted, HB does a lot of things to make the model work, and they can't just change it into a 4th high school. I get it -- you're jealous of its existence.
Again, claiming we are jealous because we want to make best available use of public facilities. HB is a jewel simply because it’s sized is capped; so many people apply who know nothing about the program, and admission is lottery rather than an actual magnet. Get over yourself. You got yours and now want to say FU to other parents.
Anonymous
01/20/2022 12:38
Subject: HB Woodlawn -- High School Only
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I have a middle schooler and HB and this sounds like a good plan to me.
But I have always wondered why we can’t use more office space for schools? Is it the lack of grass? I get we like our green space, but lots of kids in cities have to deal with a lack of green space, and it seems like not having green space is a small price to pay for not having overcrowded schools.
How do you decide which kids get to go to schools with green space and who has to sit in an office building and do recess in a parking lot? That was why HB ended up at the Heights, because people in the surrounding neighborhoods didn’t want their kids to be forced to go to school there, and since HB is an option program no one is forced to attend.
Well, this is high school discussion, so recess is not a thing, but same priciple applies. Who doesn't get a pool, football field, full gymansium, etc.
The problem isn't not getting a pool or field. It's people insisting that all of the amenities have to be on-site.
An office building can easily accommodate a gymnasium and auditorium.
Original “green space” poster here. I seem to recall that a big obstacle to building an extra elementary schools is that there is some requirement that the site have green space. Which seemed so odd to me because isn’t it better to just reduce the green space requirement than to have overcrowded schools?
I wonder if there is an analogous requirement for middle and high schools? Obviously budget is a big issue but if there is some requirement, like having a field or a gymnasium in a certain spot, that is stopping APs from building more schools, could we re-think that requirement?
Anonymous
01/20/2022 12:32
Subject: HB Woodlawn -- High School Only
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Another thread someone suggested turning HBW into High School only, and the capacity numbers bear it out: it is a GREAT idea.
Middle School (Enrollment/Capacity)
WM 788/997
SW 888/948
DH 866/1000
GN 1099/992
KM 947/1045
TJ 861/1086
Excess MS Capacity: 619
HBW MS 243
HBW HS 457
Heights: 775
Yields: 318 new High School seats, perhaps even more if HS class sizes are bigger than MS class sizes (I can't find APS policy on that).
We could enact this next year, and for almost zero dollars we'll have added 1/2 the high school seats that we just spent $1M on supersizing WL
Added bonus, more Arlington students get a shot at HBW.
I don't care about HB, and didn't see the other thread. But what is the point of this. APS has excess capacity at both MS and HS.
No, they don't.
There is a lot of unfilled capacity at SOME middle schools - Hamm!
But there is such resistance to redistricting in a manner that fills all the schools.
And what high school capacity is there? Wakefield added trailers. WL is busting at the seams. Yorktown is hardly oozing available seats.
Anonymous
01/20/2022 12:30
Subject: HB Woodlawn -- High School Only
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I have a middle schooler and HB and this sounds like a good plan to me.
But I have always wondered why we can’t use more office space for schools? Is it the lack of grass? I get we like our green space, but lots of kids in cities have to deal with a lack of green space, and it seems like not having green space is a small price to pay for not having overcrowded schools.
How do you decide which kids get to go to schools with green space and who has to sit in an office building and do recess in a parking lot? That was why HB ended up at the Heights, because people in the surrounding neighborhoods didn’t want their kids to be forced to go to school there, and since HB is an option program no one is forced to attend.
Well, this is high school discussion, so recess is not a thing, but same priciple applies. Who doesn't get a pool, football field, full gymansium, etc.
The problem isn't not getting a pool or field. It's people insisting that all of the amenities have to be on-site.
An office building can easily accommodate a gymnasium and auditorium.
Anonymous
01/20/2022 12:29
Subject: HB Woodlawn -- High School Only
Look, Arlington Public Schools is big on magnet programs at all levels, and HB is considered the jewel among them. They're not about to throw out the baby with the bathwater. As another poster has noted, HB does a lot of things to make the model work, and they can't just change it into a 4th high school. I get it -- you're jealous of its existence.
Anonymous
01/20/2022 12:28
Subject: HB Woodlawn -- High School Only
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I have a middle schooler and HB and this sounds like a good plan to me.
But I have always wondered why we can’t use more office space for schools? Is it the lack of grass? I get we like our green space, but lots of kids in cities have to deal with a lack of green space, and it seems like not having green space is a small price to pay for not having overcrowded schools.
How do you decide which kids get to go to schools with green space and who has to sit in an office building and do recess in a parking lot? That was why HB ended up at the Heights, because people in the surrounding neighborhoods didn’t want their kids to be forced to go to school there, and since HB is an option program no one is forced to attend.
Exactly, one solution is to make complelling option schools like HB in a variety of niche office or small lot locations. But Arlington Tech has not drawn students like HBW does, so its a dicey solution -- they could build it and they WON'T come.
AT is doing fine. They get hundreds of applicants each year.
Also, it's a brand new program and is not unusual to take time to garner credibility, public awareness, and desirability. AT doesn't currently have space to expand. If you've been paying any attention, you would know the Career Center site plans have continually been stalled, limiting the program's ability to grow. And remember, it's maximum size was always intended to be small, not much larger than HB.
Anonymous
01/20/2022 12:26
Subject: HB Woodlawn -- High School Only
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I have a middle schooler and HB and this sounds like a good plan to me.
But I have always wondered why we can’t use more office space for schools? Is it the lack of grass? I get we like our green space, but lots of kids in cities have to deal with a lack of green space, and it seems like not having green space is a small price to pay for not having overcrowded schools.
How do you decide which kids get to go to schools with green space and who has to sit in an office building and do recess in a parking lot? That was why HB ended up at the Heights, because people in the surrounding neighborhoods didn’t want their kids to be forced to go to school there, and since HB is an option program no one is forced to attend.
They don't do "recess" in high school.
And that is not why HB ended up at the Heights. HB moved because the people around the Stratford building (now Hamm) wanted a "walkable" middle school for their kids.
Anonymous
01/20/2022 12:22
Subject: HB Woodlawn -- High School Only
Anonymous wrote:HB can’t be a fourth comprehensive high school because it has no field space for sports.
The admin makes the HB model work by eliminating non teaching staff like guidance counselors and psychologists etc and having everyone in admin teach classes, including principals etc. (And assigning each kid one teacher per year to be their TA or guidance counselor). That way they keep the school running at slightly smaller class sizes on the same amount of money as other schools because they don’t pay for counselors etc.
I would guess that if you tried to turn everything into a high school HB could lose about a quarter (?) of its teachers right off the bat who focus more on middle school teaching than high school. I think there would also be problems with providing proper guidance by teachers when you don’t have a history with the kids and when you get assigned more kids to counsel because all your classes are now high school size enrollment.
Not to mention the integration the school does at the middle school level with the Shriver program.
Basically you are saying just use HB for its building and strip away the rest of the program that previously gave it purpose and identity.
Man, I fought like hell 10 years ago to get the school board to turn Kenmore into a fourth comprehensive high school but could not make it happen. Now my kid is in middle school at HB and you want to kick him out for this weird idea that clearly comes from a place of not knowing or understanding anything about the philosophy of the school at all, you just want empty seats? I feel for your cause (and I was the one sounding the alarm ten years ago and also tried to get parents of younger kids involved at that time, where were you?) but I do not wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
First of all, nobody would kick your kid out. They aren't going to just eliminate the MS program and send everyone back to their assigned middle school. They would phase it out by no longer enrolling 6th graders.
Nevertheless, this is a prime example of the problem of HB pushback. Once you're in, don't dare change anything or take anything away from me. Although I understand you weren't advocating for changing HB ten years ago (presumably) before your kid got in. I' with you on the 4th hs at Kenmore and fought for that myself, too.
I also support HB being a small program - that's the point. Some kids really do need a smaller environment. Not all kids thrive in a 2,000+ school. I do believe the program could still be larger and serve the needed purpose, though.
Anonymous
01/20/2022 12:22
Subject: HB Woodlawn -- High School Only
Ha! Most of the SB members a couple of years ago had really big soft spots for option programs (BK, RG has kids at HB, MO and the MPSA program, etc.). I think that this may have been dead in the water then, but it should be ok now.
Anonymous
01/20/2022 12:16
Subject: HB Woodlawn -- High School Only
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Another thread someone suggested turning HBW into High School only, and the capacity numbers bear it out: it is a GREAT idea.
Middle School (Enrollment/Capacity)
WM 788/997
SW 888/948
DH 866/1000
GN 1099/992
KM 947/1045
TJ 861/1086
Excess MS Capacity: 619
HBW MS 243
HBW HS 457
Heights: 775
Yields: 318 new High School seats, perhaps even more if HS class sizes are bigger than MS class sizes (I can't find APS policy on that).
We could enact this next year, and for almost zero dollars we'll have added 1/2 the high school seats that we just spent $1M on supersizing WL
Added bonus, more Arlington students get a shot at HBW.
That was my post! Glad someone else is excited about this idea. Any time I brought it up to SB members in the past, I got a lecture about HBW only works if it is 6-12?!?!
Oh good grief. Kanninen certainly had to be one of thos board members you spoke to. She was an HB parent, you know.
Nevertheless, this will be the argument from the HB community and the likely-prospects for future HB community. So, start preparing the rebuttals now.
Anonymous
01/20/2022 12:03
Subject: HB Woodlawn -- High School Only
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Another thread someone suggested turning HBW into High School only, and the capacity numbers bear it out: it is a GREAT idea.
Middle School (Enrollment/Capacity)
WM 788/997
SW 888/948
DH 866/1000
GN 1099/992
KM 947/1045
TJ 861/1086
Excess MS Capacity: 619
HBW MS 243
HBW HS 457
Heights: 775
Yields: 318 new High School seats, perhaps even more if HS class sizes are bigger than MS class sizes (I can't find APS policy on that).
We could enact this next year, and for almost zero dollars we'll have added 1/2 the high school seats that we just spent $1M on supersizing WL
Added bonus, more Arlington students get a shot at HBW.
I don't care about HB, and didn't see the other thread. But what is the point of this. APS has excess capacity at both MS and HS.
It only has “excess” in high school because they are cramming 3000 students into 2000 ft print WL by turning over office space.
Anonymous
01/20/2022 11:49
Subject: HB Woodlawn -- High School Only
Anonymous wrote:HB can’t be a fourth comprehensive high school because it has no field space for sports.
The admin makes the HB model work by eliminating non teaching staff like guidance counselors and psychologists etc and having everyone in admin teach classes, including principals etc. (And assigning each kid one teacher per year to be their TA or guidance counselor). That way they keep the school running at slightly smaller class sizes on the same amount of money as other schools because they don’t pay for counselors etc.
I would guess that if you tried to turn everything into a high school HB could lose about a quarter (?) of its teachers right off the bat who focus more on middle school teaching than high school.I think there would also be problems with providing proper guidance by teachers when you don’t have a history with the kids and when you get assigned more kids to counsel because all your classes are now high school size enrollment.
Not to mention the integration the school does at the middle school level with the Shriver program.
Basically you are saying just use HB for its building and strip away the rest of the program that previously gave it purpose and identity.
Man, I fought like hell 10 years ago to get the school board to turn Kenmore into a fourth comprehensive high school but could not make it happen. Now my kid is in middle school at HB and you want to kick him out for this weird idea that clearly comes from a place of not knowing or understanding anything about the philosophy of the school at all, you just want empty seats? I feel for your cause (and I was the one sounding the alarm ten years ago and also tried to get parents of younger kids involved at that time, where were you?) but I do not wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Ok they can go and new teachers will be hired
Students will form new relationships.
Basically I agree with you, get rid of the program and use the space.
Anonymous
01/20/2022 11:18
Subject: HB Woodlawn -- High School Only
Anonymous wrote:Another thread someone suggested turning HBW into High School only, and the capacity numbers bear it out: it is a GREAT idea.
Middle School (Enrollment/Capacity)
WM 788/997
SW 888/948
DH 866/1000
GN 1099/992
KM 947/1045
TJ 861/1086
Excess MS Capacity: 619
HBW MS 243
HBW HS 457
Heights: 775
Yields: 318 new High School seats, perhaps even more if HS class sizes are bigger than MS class sizes (I can't find APS policy on that).
We could enact this next year, and for almost zero dollars we'll have added 1/2 the high school seats that we just spent $1M on supersizing WL
Added bonus, more Arlington students get a shot at HBW.
I don't care about HB, and didn't see the other thread. But what is the point of this. APS has excess capacity at both MS and HS.
Anonymous
01/20/2022 10:09
Subject: HB Woodlawn -- High School Only
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I have a middle schooler and HB and this sounds like a good plan to me.
But I have always wondered why we can’t use more office space for schools? Is it the lack of grass? I get we like our green space, but lots of kids in cities have to deal with a lack of green space, and it seems like not having green space is a small price to pay for not having overcrowded schools.
How do you decide which kids get to go to schools with green space and who has to sit in an office building and do recess in a parking lot? That was why HB ended up at the Heights, because people in the surrounding neighborhoods didn’t want their kids to be forced to go to school there, and since HB is an option program no one is forced to attend.
Well I wasn’t sure but as I read your comment I had an idea: if the school is somehow special and not everyone gets to attend, no green space for them? Also HB has a playground they go to so it maybe doesn’t always have to be a parking lot.
Tbh I have not looked into this carefully and I’m sure most people commenting here know more about the implications of everything, I just always wondered why schools *have* to have green space.