Anonymous
01/18/2022 17:44
Subject: South Asian male applicants
Ok. Here is some advice you can actually use. Forget HYPSM and most of the ivies, except maybe Cornell maybe. Don't count on these schools or waste your ED/SCEA card on them. You will most probably come up empty and frustrated
If you are able to
1) flag that you don't need aid. It makes a difference even if everybody tells you it doesn't. Once you get in, you can apply for aid for years 2-4. and reveal your real need. You are going to have to eat the first year cost to boost your chances. Don't submit any aid forms or Fafsa or anything else.
2) Target one of the following schools during the ED round: WashU, Emory, Vanderbilt, Uchicago, Duke, CMU, NYU but don't count on it
3) Avoid showing that your child wants to do CS, Econ, Engineering, business, pre-med. If possible tailor your app to highlight another major with his EC's
4) Have a backup plan for the state flagship. That's probably where he will most probably land.
Sorry. But that's the reality for the South Asian male today. It sucks, but it's what it is
If you are able to
1) flag that you don't need aid. It makes a difference even if everybody tells you it doesn't. Once you get in, you can apply for aid for years 2-4. and reveal your real need. You are going to have to eat the first year cost to boost your chances. Don't submit any aid forms or Fafsa or anything else.
2) Target one of the following schools during the ED round: WashU, Emory, Vanderbilt, Uchicago, Duke, CMU, NYU but don't count on it
3) Avoid showing that your child wants to do CS, Econ, Engineering, business, pre-med. If possible tailor your app to highlight another major with his EC's
4) Have a backup plan for the state flagship. That's probably where he will most probably land.
Sorry. But that's the reality for the South Asian male today. It sucks, but it's what it is
Anonymous
01/18/2022 17:35
Subject: South Asian male applicants
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This website has much data to show why you need not worry...
https://lesshighschoolstress.com/
Less selective universities are very capable of providing an excellent education.
Give me a break. OP wants to know how it is possible to get in the very selective universities. This "don't stress" narrative is absurd to feed to someone, when their kid has virtually no chance to get into a school, but their next door neighbor does, even with less accomplishment. "Don't stress" is some BS gaslighting in the face of discrimination.
OP's son will do well because that's who he is, regardless of where he goes to school. She's not worried that he's going to be digging ditches. That is not the point. And she doesn't have to have the same criteria as you. If this worries her, it worries her. That's valid.
Unless their next-door neighbor is first gen or URM, that probably isn't true. You said less accomplishment, so eliminate athletes. An unhooked white male has the same chance of getting in as an unhooked South Asian male- virtually zero. White numbers look better because of hooked students, but the unhooked ones have the same impossible odds.
you want to cry over unhooked white applicants - look to athletes, legacies and donors. All white.
The fact that most of these students are white shows that unhooked white applicants also may have had opportunities that Asian students do not.
Asian-raced American face all kinds of discrimination and adversity... and that's fine? No additional considerations for you?
Also, where I live there are very few white students so the chances of my neighbor being an URM is high. So yeah. Brownie for you; not for you.
Sure, the fact that a kid that your kid has never even been in that same state as let alone met making a football team totally means that your kid has an advantage
Oh, does it not feel good when someone makes assumptions about your circumstances based on your skin color?
Anonymous
01/18/2022 17:35
Subject: South Asian male applicants
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Any south Asian male student parents on? Or do any of you have any ideas of how the admission season is panning out for them? It is very tough in our school---south Asian boys even with very high stats and scores and good ECs did not get into ED. Worried parent of a South Asian male junior. Please no politics.
Do you understand that nearly all admissions decisions tend to be a lot more nuanced than just stats and test scores?
Do you also understand that a LOT of kids with very high stats and scores of all races and genders are having trouble gaining admission to their top choices?
OP here: Yes, I do. It is just hard(er) when a URM student whose parents are very well to do and who has lower stats and non spectacular ECs gets into a selective college and the South Asian student does not. We would have to be ostriches to deny this is happening. And I am talking about a South Asian applicant who has won hackathons and national competitions versus a candidate who has just participated in a school varsity sports teams and school clubs.
My child is still a junior so I am not talking about my student.
When the differences are obvious nuances kind of become irrelevant.
Schools value students ec's not because they are measures of value, but because they want students who will contribute in diverse ways to the school community. So they want athletes who will populate their intramural clubs, musicians for the marching band and other music groups, club leaders who will form and lead clubs, people who will host hack-a-thons etc. These aren't meant to be some measure of relative merit--schools select a community. So the hackathon kid is in competition with the other hackathon kids more than the sports team captains or the artists or musicians or social activists. So the more accurate evidence of there being potential racial bias in your example would be if the hackathon winning/national competition Asian kid with higher stats was not accepted while a non-Asia hackathon losing kid who didn't qualify for the national competition with lower stats applying to the same major.
And note--you seem to downplay varsity sports in favor of winning hackathons--but sports are valued in the US and US colleges. Even if athletes don't play on the college teams there is a belief that varsity athletic performance is evidence of discipline, collaboration and achievement. It's not seen as less meritocratic or relevant than programming skills. You may disagree with this, but it has long been a meaningful part of the conception of merit in the US college system.
Yeah because hackathons don’t promote discipline, collaboration and achievement. Spare me your platitudes about athletes being special for doing nothing more than any other student who is committed to an activity.
I didn't say that at all. I just said that winning a hackathon isn't any better either as OP suggested by saying the other candidate "just" had a varsity sports team as opposed to winning hackathon. I actually am more the hackathon type than an athlete personally--but it's not like a school is going to want a thousand hackers and no sports.
Anonymous
01/18/2022 17:33
Subject: South Asian male applicants
Send your kid to a SLAC
Send your kid to a school that really wants him like an Alabama (have you any idea how much expansion is happening in Huntsville?), Univ of South Carolina, or ASU that gives him tons of money, Honors College, and research/mentoring opportunities right from the beginning.
I’m sorry to hear this is happening so often nowadays. Your child sounds incredible.
Send your kid to a school that really wants him like an Alabama (have you any idea how much expansion is happening in Huntsville?), Univ of South Carolina, or ASU that gives him tons of money, Honors College, and research/mentoring opportunities right from the beginning.
I’m sorry to hear this is happening so often nowadays. Your child sounds incredible.
Anonymous
01/18/2022 17:29
Subject: South Asian male applicants
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Any south Asian male student parents on? Or do any of you have any ideas of how the admission season is panning out for them? It is very tough in our school---south Asian boys even with very high stats and scores and good ECs did not get into ED. Worried parent of a South Asian male junior. Please no politics.
Do you understand that nearly all admissions decisions tend to be a lot more nuanced than just stats and test scores?
Do you also understand that a LOT of kids with very high stats and scores of all races and genders are having trouble gaining admission to their top choices?
OP here: Yes, I do. It is just hard(er) when a URM student whose parents are very well to do and who has lower stats and non spectacular ECs gets into a selective college and the South Asian student does not. We would have to be ostriches to deny this is happening. And I am talking about a South Asian applicant who has won hackathons and national competitions versus a candidate who has just participated in a school varsity sports teams and school clubs.
My child is still a junior so I am not talking about my student.
When the differences are obvious nuances kind of become irrelevant.
Schools value students ec's not because they are measures of value, but because they want students who will contribute in diverse ways to the school community. So they want athletes who will populate their intramural clubs, musicians for the marching band and other music groups, club leaders who will form and lead clubs, people who will host hack-a-thons etc. These aren't meant to be some measure of relative merit--schools select a community. So the hackathon kid is in competition with the other hackathon kids more than the sports team captains or the artists or musicians or social activists. So the more accurate evidence of there being potential racial bias in your example would be if the hackathon winning/national competition Asian kid with higher stats was not accepted while a non-Asia hackathon losing kid who didn't qualify for the national competition with lower stats applying to the same major.
And note--you seem to downplay varsity sports in favor of winning hackathons--but sports are valued in the US and US colleges. Even if athletes don't play on the college teams there is a belief that varsity athletic performance is evidence of discipline, collaboration and achievement. It's not seen as less meritocratic or relevant than programming skills. You may disagree with this, but it has long been a meaningful part of the conception of merit in the US college system.
Yeah because hackathons don’t promote discipline, collaboration and achievement. Spare me your platitudes about athletes being special for doing nothing more than any other student who is committed to an activity.
Anonymous
01/18/2022 17:27
Subject: South Asian male applicants
Send your kid abroad.
Anonymous
01/18/2022 17:17
Subject: South Asian male applicants
Anonymous wrote:This website has much data to show why you need not worry...
https://lesshighschoolstress.com/
Less selective universities are very capable of providing an excellent education.
Same poster as above.
Just for fun, I decided to look at the education of the associates (relatively recent hires) at the law firm mentioned on the website mentioned above. I only looked at those who seemed to have a South Asian surname and who went to college in the US.
NAME UNDERGRAD LAW
Amarnani Stevens Institute of Technology Yeshiva U
Bhasin City U of New York (Hunter) NYU
Goel Drexel Northwestern
Joshi Penn State Penn
Kaur U Dayton Yale
Kooragayala Emory Northwestern
Mehta U North Carolina Chapel Hill U Virginia
Prasad Brown Boston College
Somani William and Mary U Virginia
The Ivies, Stanford, Duke, MIT, etc. are wonderful places to get an education, but they are by no means the only path to a position with a very desirable employer.
Anonymous
01/18/2022 17:14
Subject: Re:South Asian male applicants
I’ll assume this thread is about UVA.
Anonymous
01/18/2022 17:13
Subject: South Asian male applicants
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Any south Asian male student parents on? Or do any of you have any ideas of how the admission season is panning out for them? It is very tough in our school---south Asian boys even with very high stats and scores and good ECs did not get into ED. Worried parent of a South Asian male junior. Please no politics.
Do you understand that nearly all admissions decisions tend to be a lot more nuanced than just stats and test scores?
Do you also understand that a LOT of kids with very high stats and scores of all races and genders are having trouble gaining admission to their top choices?
OP here: Yes, I do. It is just hard(er) when a URM student whose parents are very well to do and who has lower stats and non spectacular ECs gets into a selective college and the South Asian student does not. We would have to be ostriches to deny this is happening. And I am talking about a South Asian applicant who has won hackathons and national competitions versus a candidate who has just participated in a school varsity sports teams and school clubs.
My child is still a junior so I am not talking about my student.
When the differences are obvious nuances kind of become irrelevant.
Schools value students ec's not because they are measures of value, but because they want students who will contribute in diverse ways to the school community. So they want athletes who will populate their intramural clubs, musicians for the marching band and other music groups, club leaders who will form and lead clubs, people who will host hack-a-thons etc. These aren't meant to be some measure of relative merit--schools select a community. So the hackathon kid is in competition with the other hackathon kids more than the sports team captains or the artists or musicians or social activists. So the more accurate evidence of there being potential racial bias in your example would be if the hackathon winning/national competition Asian kid with higher stats was not accepted while a non-Asia hackathon losing kid who didn't qualify for the national competition with lower stats applying to the same major.
And note--you seem to downplay varsity sports in favor of winning hackathons--but sports are valued in the US and US colleges. Even if athletes don't play on the college teams there is a belief that varsity athletic performance is evidence of discipline, collaboration and achievement. It's not seen as less meritocratic or relevant than programming skills. You may disagree with this, but it has long been a meaningful part of the conception of merit in the US college system.
This is true. I got my first job in law school because I was a music major undergrad (the job was in a law firm). The partner thought that if I had the discipline to be a musician, I would be a good worker. His daughter was an ice skater and he knew how much discipline that takes and what you give up. He assumed music was the same. I had the grades like every other candidate he was considering, but I had something else that showed my work ethic. I think colleges view applications through a similar lens. They see things through your activities that tell them about the kind of student and community member you might be. I think winning a hackathon is cool, but if they already have several kids with similar accomplishments, they may decline in favor of someone who can contribute something different. It’s more of an art than a science, which is why people struggle since they are trying to find the “formula” and there isn’t one.
Anonymous
01/18/2022 17:06
Subject: South Asian male applicants
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Any south Asian male student parents on? Or do any of you have any ideas of how the admission season is panning out for them? It is very tough in our school---south Asian boys even with very high stats and scores and good ECs did not get into ED. Worried parent of a South Asian male junior. Please no politics.
Do you understand that nearly all admissions decisions tend to be a lot more nuanced than just stats and test scores?
Do you also understand that a LOT of kids with very high stats and scores of all races and genders are having trouble gaining admission to their top choices?
OP here: Yes, I do. It is just hard(er) when a URM student whose parents are very well to do and who has lower stats and non spectacular ECs gets into a selective college and the South Asian student does not. We would have to be ostriches to deny this is happening. And I am talking about a South Asian applicant who has won hackathons and national competitions versus a candidate who has just participated in a school varsity sports teams and school clubs.
My child is still a junior so I am not talking about my student.
When the differences are obvious nuances kind of become irrelevant.
Schools value students ec's not because they are measures of value, but because they want students who will contribute in diverse ways to the school community. So they want athletes who will populate their intramural clubs, musicians for the marching band and other music groups, club leaders who will form and lead clubs, people who will host hack-a-thons etc. These aren't meant to be some measure of relative merit--schools select a community. So the hackathon kid is in competition with the other hackathon kids more than the sports team captains or the artists or musicians or social activists. So the more accurate evidence of there being potential racial bias in your example would be if the hackathon winning/national competition Asian kid with higher stats was not accepted while a non-Asia hackathon losing kid who didn't qualify for the national competition with lower stats applying to the same major.
And note--you seem to downplay varsity sports in favor of winning hackathons--but sports are valued in the US and US colleges. Even if athletes don't play on the college teams there is a belief that varsity athletic performance is evidence of discipline, collaboration and achievement. It's not seen as less meritocratic or relevant than programming skills. You may disagree with this, but it has long been a meaningful part of the conception of merit in the US college system.
Nicely put.
Anonymous
01/18/2022 17:02
Subject: South Asian male applicants
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Any south Asian male student parents on? Or do any of you have any ideas of how the admission season is panning out for them? It is very tough in our school---south Asian boys even with very high stats and scores and good ECs did not get into ED. Worried parent of a South Asian male junior. Please no politics.
Do you understand that nearly all admissions decisions tend to be a lot more nuanced than just stats and test scores?
Do you also understand that a LOT of kids with very high stats and scores of all races and genders are having trouble gaining admission to their top choices?
OP here: Yes, I do. It is just hard(er) when a URM student whose parents are very well to do and who has lower stats and non spectacular ECs gets into a selective college and the South Asian student does not. We would have to be ostriches to deny this is happening. And I am talking about a South Asian applicant who has won hackathons and national competitions versus a candidate who has just participated in a school varsity sports teams and school clubs.
My child is still a junior so I am not talking about my student.
When the differences are obvious nuances kind of become irrelevant.
Schools value students ec's not because they are measures of value, but because they want students who will contribute in diverse ways to the school community. So they want athletes who will populate their intramural clubs, musicians for the marching band and other music groups, club leaders who will form and lead clubs, people who will host hack-a-thons etc. These aren't meant to be some measure of relative merit--schools select a community. So the hackathon kid is in competition with the other hackathon kids more than the sports team captains or the artists or musicians or social activists. So the more accurate evidence of there being potential racial bias in your example would be if the hackathon winning/national competition Asian kid with higher stats was not accepted while a non-Asia hackathon losing kid who didn't qualify for the national competition with lower stats applying to the same major.
And note--you seem to downplay varsity sports in favor of winning hackathons--but sports are valued in the US and US colleges. Even if athletes don't play on the college teams there is a belief that varsity athletic performance is evidence of discipline, collaboration and achievement. It's not seen as less meritocratic or relevant than programming skills. You may disagree with this, but it has long been a meaningful part of the conception of merit in the US college system.
Anonymous
01/18/2022 17:00
Subject: South Asian male applicants
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This website has much data to show why you need not worry...
https://lesshighschoolstress.com/
Less selective universities are very capable of providing an excellent education.
Give me a break. OP wants to know how it is possible to get in the very selective universities. This "don't stress" narrative is absurd to feed to someone, when their kid has virtually no chance to get into a school, but their next door neighbor does, even with less accomplishment. "Don't stress" is some BS gaslighting in the face of discrimination.
OP's son will do well because that's who he is, regardless of where he goes to school. She's not worried that he's going to be digging ditches. That is not the point. And she doesn't have to have the same criteria as you. If this worries her, it worries her. That's valid.
+1 million
South Asian boys will do just fine with their strong work ethic, supportive families and their good educational foundation.
That doesn’t mean that OP doesn’t need to be concerned about her son’s chances for college.
Anonymous
01/18/2022 16:47
Subject: South Asian male applicants
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This website has much data to show why you need not worry...
https://lesshighschoolstress.com/
Less selective universities are very capable of providing an excellent education.
Give me a break. OP wants to know how it is possible to get in the very selective universities. This "don't stress" narrative is absurd to feed to someone, when their kid has virtually no chance to get into a school, but their next door neighbor does, even with less accomplishment. "Don't stress" is some BS gaslighting in the face of discrimination.
OP's son will do well because that's who he is, regardless of where he goes to school. She's not worried that he's going to be digging ditches. That is not the point. And she doesn't have to have the same criteria as you. If this worries her, it worries her. That's valid.
Unless their next-door neighbor is first gen or URM, that probably isn't true. You said less accomplishment, so eliminate athletes. An unhooked white male has the same chance of getting in as an unhooked South Asian male- virtually zero. White numbers look better because of hooked students, but the unhooked ones have the same impossible odds.
you want to cry over unhooked white applicants - look to athletes, legacies and donors. All white.
The fact that most of these students are white shows that unhooked white applicants also may have had opportunities that Asian students do not.
Asian-raced American face all kinds of discrimination and adversity... and that's fine? No additional considerations for you?
Also, where I live there are very few white students so the chances of my neighbor being an URM is high. So yeah. Brownie for you; not for you.
Sure, the fact that a kid that your kid has never even been in that same state as let alone met making a football team totally means that your kid has an advantage
Anonymous
01/18/2022 16:29
Subject: South Asian male applicants
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Any south Asian male student parents on? Or do any of you have any ideas of how the admission season is panning out for them? It is very tough in our school---south Asian boys even with very high stats and scores and good ECs did not get into ED. Worried parent of a South Asian male junior. Please no politics.
Do you understand that nearly all admissions decisions tend to be a lot more nuanced than just stats and test scores?
Do you also understand that a LOT of kids with very high stats and scores of all races and genders are having trouble gaining admission to their top choices?
OP here: Yes, I do. It is just hard(er) when a URM student whose parents are very well to do and who has lower stats and non spectacular ECs gets into a selective college and the South Asian student does not. We would have to be ostriches to deny this is happening. And I am talking about a South Asian applicant who has won hackathons and national competitions versus a candidate who has just participated in a school varsity sports teams and school clubs.
My child is still a junior so I am not talking about my student.
When the differences are obvious nuances kind of become irrelevant.
Anonymous
01/18/2022 16:02
Subject: Re:South Asian male applicants
You need to look at where they are applying and not getting in ED. Is it Stanford, Harvard, and the like? If so, almost no one gets in ED to those schools, or under regular admissions for that matter. Acceptance rates under 5% and there are more qualified kids than spots.