Anonymous wrote:I'm with you, op. I see many friends struggling to get their husbands on board with childcare etc when it seemed so obvious to me before kids that he wasn't going to be that kind of dad.

And to those who say look to the family and upbringing, I believe there's a lot of truth to that but also see many people actively working to be the opposite kind of parent they had. Parenting is so much easier when you had a good role model, but having a bad one can be a pretty good motivator to do better.

Yes, I completely agree with this, PP!

I'm with you, op. I see many friends struggling to get their husbands on board with childcare etc when it seemed so obvious to me before kids that he wasn't going to be that kind of dad.

And to those who say look to the family and upbringing, I believe there's a lot of truth to that but also see many people actively working to be the opposite kind of parent they had. Parenting is so much easier when you had a good role model, but having a bad one can be a pretty good motivator to do better.

Anonymous wrote:I would add to this, OP, to look at your future spouse’s family of origin for clues about how your life will go. Is MIL doing all the work? Does FIL help clean up when you visit? What is the history of that family?

DH helps with chores and housework because that’s what his father did. MIL was managing bipolar and mostly ok but there were periods when FIL was completely in charge of holding the family together. I didn’t realize how important this was but it is.

NP, but this. SO MUCH THIS. I wish I had been able to spend more time around my DH’s family before we married, but they lived in the Midwest, and visits were few and far between. My eyes have been opened, but unfortunately it didn’t happen until after our kids were born.
I come from a family where childcare and household tasks were split nearly evenly between my parents. DH’s mom took care of EVERYTHING while also working full time…and now I do, too.

Anonymous wrote:I'm here visiting from the General Parenting Forum, where people are complaining about their spouses not doing their share of housework or childcare or errand running/organizing or what have you. My DH meanwhile was out shoveling yesterday with two small kids "helping" him, and that's after he made lunch and dinner and started the dishwasher. This is just a normal day for us, and I stayed back to deal with Christmas cleanup, laundry etc. Neither of us need any congratulations but it seems our situation is not the norm.

You may be busy thinking about how your partner measures up in terms of looks or some kind of status but all that will fade in importance when life gets busy and you realize where your priorities Really are. So think about what your partner does now, how much s/he pitches in, how much s/he thinks about you both as a team vs two competing individuals and you'll have a much more useful lens into the future.

/endrant

Yes! I remember complaining to my mom that an ex-boyfriend never did the dishes and her response was "no man does more to clean up once he gets married." Truer words were never spoken! I ended up dumping the guy and marrying someone who does do the dishes (and much more than that!).

Of course it's not *all* the bad partners.

Anyway, gotta go make dinner!

We hire a service for the season that comes to plow throughout the winter at each snowfall. Much better than being out there shoveling.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not that hard to rule out a traditional male view. Harder to vet supposed male feminists. All of them trying to get into your pants with varying tactics.

One must be extremely observant.

Very true.

To the 21:00 poster, this is anonymous so not sure what I'd get from bragging, humbly or otherwise. If we want more kindness and equality in the world, we have to start keeping people accountable. Wishful thinking is what gets many people into bad marriages.

I love the Arab watermelon proverb, btw. Hadn't heard it before.

-OP

The way you phrased your op was definitely self-congratulatory and without any self-awareness whatsoever. Do you really think that most women are so completely focused on superficiality while you were sooo smart and loved DH for his kind heart? Give me a break. You got lucky, plenty of women who focused on “important things” ended up picking a dud anyway. Life can be arbitrary and cruel sometimes, the sooner you learn this, the better.

I agree. This was written by someone who got lucky but views it as “choices”. Life is long and people change and not always for the best and sometimes someone who was fantastic when you were young and dating just isn’t when you are older and life is a lot harder. Could you have always known that? Maybe not. But blaming people for not having foresight ten-15 years the line isn’t particularly helpful.

Whatever you want to tell yourself. *shrug*

OF COURSE, it's possible people change, of course some of it is luck, of course people may and do have difficulties in life that cannot be foreseen. But so so many people just want to not be alone and ignore the huge red flags. If s/he's not offering to wash the dishes after you make him/her dinner, you can count on them not washing dishes in 10 years.

Sorry, I question your premise. I don’t think all the bad partners out there are just out waving their red flags. And I say that as someone who is happy with their spouse. Of course hindsight is 20/20, but life doesn’t just work that way where such difficult decisions are sooo obvious.

PS I'm not blaming anyone. I'm not on those threads saying "well, you should have known." I'm on this forum because so many are at the stage where they may be able to choose a little more wisely, insist a little more on getting the respect they deserve.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not that hard to rule out a traditional male view. Harder to vet supposed male feminists. All of them trying to get into your pants with varying tactics.

One must be extremely observant.

Very true.

To the 21:00 poster, this is anonymous so not sure what I'd get from bragging, humbly or otherwise. If we want more kindness and equality in the world, we have to start keeping people accountable. Wishful thinking is what gets many people into bad marriages.

I love the Arab watermelon proverb, btw. Hadn't heard it before.

-OP

The way you phrased your op was definitely self-congratulatory and without any self-awareness whatsoever. Do you really think that most women are so completely focused on superficiality while you were sooo smart and loved DH for his kind heart? Give me a break. You got lucky, plenty of women who focused on “important things” ended up picking a dud anyway. Life can be arbitrary and cruel sometimes, the sooner you learn this, the better.

I agree. This was written by someone who got lucky but views it as “choices”. Life is long and people change and not always for the best and sometimes someone who was fantastic when you were young and dating just isn’t when you are older and life is a lot harder. Could you have always known that? Maybe not. But blaming people for not having foresight ten-15 years the line isn’t particularly helpful.

Whatever you want to tell yourself. *shrug*

OF COURSE, it's possible people change, of course some of it is luck, of course people may and do have difficulties in life that cannot be foreseen. But so so many people just want to not be alone and ignore the huge red flags. If s/he's not offering to wash the dishes after you make him/her dinner, you can count on them not washing dishes in 10 years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not that hard to rule out a traditional male view. Harder to vet supposed male feminists. All of them trying to get into your pants with varying tactics.

One must be extremely observant.

Very true.

To the 21:00 poster, this is anonymous so not sure what I'd get from bragging, humbly or otherwise. If we want more kindness and equality in the world, we have to start keeping people accountable. Wishful thinking is what gets many people into bad marriages.

I love the Arab watermelon proverb, btw. Hadn't heard it before.

-OP

The way you phrased your op was definitely self-congratulatory and without any self-awareness whatsoever. Do you really think that most women are so completely focused on superficiality while you were sooo smart and loved DH for his kind heart? Give me a break. You got lucky, plenty of women who focused on “important things” ended up picking a dud anyway. Life can be arbitrary and cruel sometimes, the sooner you learn this, the better.

I agree. This was written by someone who got lucky but views it as “choices”. Life is long and people change and not always for the best and sometimes someone who was fantastic when you were young and dating just isn’t when you are older and life is a lot harder. Could you have always known that? Maybe not. But blaming people for not having foresight ten-15 years the line isn’t particularly helpful.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think marriage is as mysterious as a watermelon. Just ask. Do you see yourself with a SAHM or someone with a career? Why? This was second date conversation for us. We had a love at first sight encounter and were in our late 20s, so I knew I wasn’t going to waste time with anyone who had incompatible values. It was clear to me after one conversation that DH wanted a wife with a career and understood what that meant. He has stood up to every promise. Most guys are straightforward, and you can also tell how they will be around the house by seeing if they have cooking skills and keep their place clean. You can see if they are good with kids by how they treat kids of friends and family members. You’ll probably be sick or stressed with work/life in the course of dating, and if they bring you soup and tuck you in then you know if they’ll support you. People tell you who they are.

Sometimes people tell you who they are. Sometimes they don’t. DH had absolutely no interest in children, and is an extremely good parent. I got lucky. He is also very invested in the cleanliness of our home, despite no real clues to that inclination before. I got lucky. He also cares more and more and more about his health as time goes on, after not being terribly smart about his health in his twenties. Got lucky again, am unlucky in other things. I cannot really think of any clues about these developments other than DH seemed generally reasonable and not stupid. I’m not a brilliant husband chooser or anything and it could have gone the other way. I have friends who married perfectly nice men who developed big problems later. They are just human.

People change over the course of a relationship. A LOT. I have changed tremendously. I was once anxiety-ridden- I’m like a completely different person now. DH would have been very justified in not staying with the old iteration of me but he married me anyway. He got lucky- it could just as easily gone the other way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not that hard to rule out a traditional male view. Harder to vet supposed male feminists. All of them trying to get into your pants with varying tactics.

One must be extremely observant.

Very true.

To the 21:00 poster, this is anonymous so not sure what I'd get from bragging, humbly or otherwise. If we want more kindness and equality in the world, we have to start keeping people accountable. Wishful thinking is what gets many people into bad marriages.

I love the Arab watermelon proverb, btw. Hadn't heard it before.

-OP

The way you phrased your op was definitely self-congratulatory and without any self-awareness whatsoever. Do you really think that most women are so completely focused on superficiality while you were sooo smart and loved DH for his kind heart? Give me a break. You got lucky, plenty of women who focused on “important things” ended up picking a dud anyway. Life can be arbitrary and cruel sometimes, the sooner you learn this, the better.

I don’t think marriage is as mysterious as a watermelon. Just ask. Do you see yourself with a SAHM or someone with a career? Why? This was second date conversation for us. We had a love at first sight encounter and were in our late 20s, so I knew I wasn’t going to waste time with anyone who had incompatible values. It was clear to me after one conversation that DH wanted a wife with a career and understood what that meant. He has stood up to every promise. Most guys are straightforward, and you can also tell how they will be around the house by seeing if they have cooking skills and keep their place clean. You can see if they are good with kids by how they treat kids of friends and family members. You’ll probably be sick or stressed with work/life in the course of dating, and if they bring you soup and tuck you in then you know if they’ll support you. People tell you who they are.