Anonymous wrote:I would encourage some self-reflection. Are you engaging in behavior that’s detrimental to your physical and emotional well-being? My friend recently accused me of being judgmental. Truth is I have never judged her, just warned her (gently I might add) of having a relationship with a married man.

Sometimes judgment can be a good thing, like in your friend’s case. In this situation, she should be judged. Not judging her just enables her, which is seemingly what she wants considering the way she reacted to your warning. She just doesn’t like being called out for her bad behavior.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:None of the women I am close with either personally or professionally act like this. Of course, it exists, but you really can surround yourself with other people and have a full life.

This. Of course I have known a few women like OP describes, but a very small minority. Unfortunately for OP her view is twisted because she was raised by these people. So to her it normal and she most likely subconsciously gravitates to people who are like this because it is familiar to her. I suggest therapy.

+1. Just because it’s common doesn’t mean it’s normal.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Go to therapy to work your issues out. Men gossip all the time about other men.

Really, we don’t.

Uh, yeah men do. I had a guy tell me I was carbo loading. Guys comment on my workouts and fitness all the time. I think the judgment is just different. I agree it also comes from insecurity.

I don’t think you understand the meaning of the word judgement.

DP. The entire basis for unsolicited advice is judgment. Also, it’s rather ironic to claim someone doesn’t understand the meaning of a word that you, yourself, can’t even spell correctly.

My mother and her three sisters were like this when I was growing up. It made me not really trust them. I loved them, but I didn't genuinely trust them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this stuff is why i had to start avoiding some of the other moms in our neighborhood

Girl, same. I’m really attuned to this now and just check out emotionally when I sense this behavior is present. It’s a red flag and I’ve learned to steer out of it. I also think it’s way more prevalent in groups of female friends than in one on one friendships (if there are only two of you, there’s no audience for this stuff and you have to just get real). So I mostly have one on one friendships. Even within a group, like within the group of moms from my new mom group, I just don’t participate in much group stuff and mostly meet up with people one on one.

Same. I also agree as a pp said, that for some it is "normal" but I know a lot of women who choose consciously not to be this way And certainly to avoid teaching a daughter to behave this way by modeling another way. Meaning modeling boundaries and minding your own business.

Now that I'm over 50 I so don't have the time for this bs, but when younger yes it was more a part of my world because there was a lot of competing, just immense pressure when you have young children to be a perfect mother. And wife and decorator and cute, blah blah blah. Aging has been nice in this way. ...a lot of us have had losses by now and you just start to realize no one cares how you do it anyway. We're all just trying to get through the best we can. No one really gives a sh*t. And if they do, it's their issue usually. An older woman who is this petty still, I tend to think is particukarly nasty and not self aware/ has a personality issue. It's something most women outgrow in my opinion.

I find that it often decreases as a woman becomes stronger in her identity, more secure in who she is and how life works (it's not a zero sum game), becomes more educated and has life experiences beyond just her role in the home. In other words, mature, sophisticated women don't live in this kind of toxic sesspool. They have better things to do.

In other words as a woman matures and grows, it should de crease. But... Some people are deeply threatened and insecure. They are also angry and prone to envy. I avoid people like this. They can be really destructive. And after a certain time, very easy to spot.

Anonymous wrote:this stuff is why i had to start avoiding some of the other moms in our neighborhood

Girl, same. I’m really attuned to this now and just check out emotionally when I sense this behavior is present. It’s a red flag and I’ve learned to steer out of it. I also think it’s way more prevalent in groups of female friends than in one on one friendships (if there are only two of you, there’s no audience for this stuff and you have to just get real). So I mostly have one on one friendships. Even within a group, like within the group of moms from my new mom group, I just don’t participate in much group stuff and mostly meet up with people one on one.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most women are like this. It’s sad but true. Young, old, single with no kids, single with kids, married with kids, married with no kids. Black, white, asian, latina, doesn’t matter. It starts from a young age and just continues into adulthood. Girls/women can be mean as they try to establish their queen bee status or proximity to the queen bee, amongst their peer du jour. This is not earth shattering stuff— we’ve all known this. What to do about it? Call out the sh***y behavior starting at a young age. Call it out in a group of adult women sh*t talking about a "friend." "Yeah, let’s not talk about Laura, especially when she’s not here to defend herself." Or, "yep, I wouldn’t have given Billy only Oreos and skittles for lunch either, but he must be giving her a hard time about having a proper lunch. None of our business, really."

OR "Her shoes looked busted? Well, who gives a f**k, really?"

Life’s too short—- short circuit negativity!

IME women get the most status from the men they are married to, particularly if they are happily married to good men who support their real-world accomplishments.

Extremely gross. No one’s status should be dependent on having to marry a man, even if he supports her “real world accomplishments” whatever that means. And the idea that this is what would matter most to other women is such a self-own.

this stuff is why i had to start avoiding some of the other moms in our neighborhood

I would encourage some self-reflection. Are you engaging in behavior that’s detrimental to your physical and emotional well-being? My friend recently accused me of being judgmental. Truth is I have never judged her, just warned her (gently I might add) of having a relationship with a married man.

Anonymous wrote:Most women are like this. It’s sad but true. Young, old, single with no kids, single with kids, married with kids, married with no kids. Black, white, asian, latina, doesn’t matter. It starts from a young age and just continues into adulthood. Girls/women can be mean as they try to establish their queen bee status or proximity to the queen bee, amongst their peer du jour. This is not earth shattering stuff— we’ve all known this. What to do about it? Call out the sh***y behavior starting at a young age. Call it out in a group of adult women sh*t talking about a "friend." "Yeah, let’s not talk about Laura, especially when she’s not here to defend herself." Or, "yep, I wouldn’t have given Billy only Oreos and skittles for lunch either, but he must be giving her a hard time about having a proper lunch. None of our business, really."

OR "Her shoes looked busted? Well, who gives a f**k, really?"

Life’s too short—- short circuit negativity!

IME women get the most status from the men they are married to, particularly if they are happily married to good men who support their real-world accomplishments.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:None of the women I am close with either personally or professionally act like this. Of course, it exists, but you really can surround yourself with other people and have a full life.

This. Of course I have known a few women like OP describes, but a very small minority. Unfortunately for OP her view is twisted because she was raised by these people. So to her it normal and she most likely subconsciously gravitates to people who are like this because it is familiar to her. I suggest therapy.

This. You have to choose what is going to be normal for you, and identify and avoid toxicity. My MIL and SILs are supremely judgemental and gossipy, and it feels normal to them because they all do it. My daughter isn’t being raised that women tear each other down instead of build each other up so one SIL has been cut off and MIL has learned not to do this in our hearing (I am 200% sure she still gossips about me, but that’s for her to worry about none of my business)

Most women are like this. It’s sad but true. Young, old, single with no kids, single with kids, married with kids, married with no kids. Black, white, asian, latina, doesn’t matter. It starts from a young age and just continues into adulthood. Girls/women can be mean as they try to establish their queen bee status or proximity to the queen bee, amongst their peer du jour. This is not earth shattering stuff— we’ve all known this. What to do about it? Call out the sh***y behavior starting at a young age. Call it out in a group of adult women sh*t talking about a "friend." "Yeah, let’s not talk about Laura, especially when she’s not here to defend herself." Or, "yep, I wouldn’t have given Billy only Oreos and skittles for lunch either, but he must be giving her a hard time about having a proper lunch. None of our business, really."

OR "Her shoes looked busted? Well, who gives a f**k, really?"

Life’s too short—- short circuit negativity!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because so many women close their minds and stop being interesting after age 25. After they get married and have kids, they just want to protect their little domains, and they look down on anyone who lives their lives differently.

This is harsh and I don’t entirely agree with it, but if there’s any kernel of truth here, I think it’s evolutionary. We’re all essentially mama polar bears teaching our cubs to survive in the wild. Society doesn’t always look kindly on people who go against the grain, and moms are disproportionately blamed for everything “wrong” with the their children, particularly if they’re girls. So when they’re overly critical, they might be attempting to smooth a path before their kid, but also protecting their own image. And it become a vicious cycle, generation after generation.

This does not explain why women do it to their peers though. I agree with PPs that it's not every woman (or even a majority) but I have absolutely encountered women who are extremely critical of other women's parenting or the way they keep their house or manage their marriage. Actually -- ha -- we've all seen it because that behavior is extremely prevalent on this website! Go check out the baby name thread going on right now where multiple women are explaining that they judge and eyeroll other women who give their babies more popular names. That's exactly the kind of behavior I've encountered IRL too -- judgment of super personal choices that do not impact the person doing the criticizing at all.

I have always assumed it comes from a place of unacknowledged insecurity. Everyone has insecurities, but some people really fear that side of themselves and refuse to admit to themselves or others that they ever worry about anything. And I think that translates to acting superior, judging people, or putting others down. It's a way of asserting power to help them get over that nagging feeling in the back of their mind that maybe they might not have it all figured out, which terrifies them.

Or at least that's my armchair diagnosis. I avoid people like this in my personal life but have encountered it at work more than once. It seems most common in women with school age kids or teens, I have no idea why since I've never had either.