Anonymous
Post 01/09/2022 07:51     Subject: Re:Is 'job-hopping' really that bad if I continue to receive promotions & raises?
What industry?
Anonymous
Post 01/09/2022 07:49     Subject: Is 'job-hopping' really that bad if I continue to receive promotions & raises?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I started on the Hill in 2018 at under 40k. I'm now on my fourth job since leaving in 2019 at a base salary of 150k and I've been here under a year. Considering leaving again, because it's just not fulfilling anymore and the jobs I'm interviewing for are in the 175k-200k base plus bonus & equity range.


My question for the VP/exec level folks is how is this going to burn me down the line? I'm having no problems securing interviews in this market, but everything I read says don't do exactly what I'm doing. Please help me understand if I should ride my current job another few months or if I should take the director level roles should the interview lead to an offer.


Ride the wave, as your timing is impeccable. Where it will hurt is down the line in an inevitable job recession, where you will be making too much and employers will select a candidate who has a proven record of some stability (3-5 years minimum). This assumes your “promotions” are at different companies. Employees love to see progression, especially at one employee for a bit.


+1 a good old fashion recession hurts those who don’t have great resumes, as there are way to many candidates to choose from. You won’t get a chance to throughly explain your jumps and most employers don’t want to hire knowing you will leave soon, unless in this market.


This is an interesting angle to look at & promotions would be at different companies, I haven't received a title promotion in house in those last 4 years.


You have stayed anywhere long enough to get promoted in house. Do you really think companies give out promotions as prizes just because you stuck around for three months?
Anonymous
Post 01/09/2022 07:29     Subject: Is 'job-hopping' really that bad if I continue to receive promotions & raises?
Anonymous wrote:What about people who can’t ever get promoted at current jobs hopping?

Often at companies you see a CEO and Heads of Risk, Audit, Legal, HR report in to CEO. None are qualified to be CEO so no promotion opportunity. Plus with Reorgs, mergers, new CEOs or layoffs as they are highly paid they are in firing line.

Pretty much only way up start small company and work your way to big companies.

It is pretty common. Plus stay too long also looks bad.

In this job market I say hop as next recession no hopping to be done.



Some jobs are switch and bait. My precious job was supposed to be a business role, but every 6 month, my managers will change my goals - sometimes a project manager, later on he wanted me to be a python engineer. There is no one anyone can deliver in this environment - poor job fit, skill misalignment, and the only thing you will get at end of your “tenaure” is battered self esteem.

You will be surprised how many teams out there that does this.
Anonymous
Post 01/09/2022 01:23     Subject: Is 'job-hopping' really that bad if I continue to receive promotions & raises?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It will bite you when it becomes excessive. Eventually, companies won’t hire you when you become a serial job hopper, or at least a lot of doors will close.

I wouldn’t give you a chance at my firm. 4 jobs in 3 years? I’d assume you got let go.


Definitely my fear. When i interviewed with my current company they didn't even bring it up as a negative in the interview. It was more like 'wow you've had a lot of really good experiences across the industry' and that was the extent of it.


I would not want to work for a close minded person who would not give a chance. Sounds old fashioned to me. I agree that all the jobs give you a wide range of experience. You see what is done with competitors, different industries and so on. I see it no differently than a business with their constant laying off of people, merges, acquisitions, retirement buyouts. Well, an employee can “lay off” an employer. Why not?

I worked for a place that laid people off in 2-3 rounds. I was round 2. Then they hired a bunch back. They fired all those people to make their reports look better to a buyer. Where is the loyalty to the humans they employed?

You’ll be fine, OP.

Those who fear a recession probably live above their means or paycheck to paycheck. Save for a rainy say. Make hay while the sun shines.


It doesn’t matter what you want unless it’s your business…those who don’t color between the lines have to face more risk (and sometimes more reward). But when the rest comes (recession) will the plan hold. Convention says no
Anonymous
Post 01/09/2022 01:20     Subject: Re:Is 'job-hopping' really that bad if I continue to receive promotions & raises?
Anonymous wrote:Change jobs to increase salary. Companies will hire a new person into a position for more money than the people already there. This shows no appreciation for the people already in the job.

By changing jobs, I increased my income by tens of thousands. That helped my retirement accounts a lot. During recessions, I was laid off. After all that, I decided I’m basically a free agent.

Save as much as you can and you can have financial freedoms in 10-15 years.


That’s a farce, as I’m assuming you are not properly calculating 3.2 percent inflation on average each year on your current spend levels nor assuming reasonable and sustainable market gains. If you save 15 years of salary, you can spend 60-70 percent of that after taxes. And then a portion Ian needed to sustain your expenses for this 15 years. Even if you could magically save 40% of the gross, you could only sustain your current living for no more than 15 years, without any surprise expenses, etc.

FIRE is a dangerous game and it’s called that because most will get burnt. If you don’t have at least $5M in invested assets, you can’t retire before age 40. It’s simple math and historical analysis.
Anonymous
Post 01/09/2022 01:08     Subject: Is 'job-hopping' really that bad if I continue to receive promotions & raises?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It will bite you when it becomes excessive. Eventually, companies won’t hire you when you become a serial job hopper, or at least a lot of doors will close.

I wouldn’t give you a chance at my firm. 4 jobs in 3 years? I’d assume you got let go.


Definitely my fear. When i interviewed with my current company they didn't even bring it up as a negative in the interview. It was more like 'wow you've had a lot of really good experiences across the industry' and that was the extent of it.


I would not want to work for a close minded person who would not give a chance. Sounds old fashioned to me. I agree that all the jobs give you a wide range of experience. You see what is done with competitors, different industries and so on. I see it no differently than a business with their constant laying off of people, merges, acquisitions, retirement buyouts. Well, an employee can “lay off” an employer. Why not?

I worked for a place that laid people off in 2-3 rounds. I was round 2. Then they hired a bunch back. They fired all those people to make their reports look better to a buyer. Where is the loyalty to the humans they employed?

You’ll be fine, OP.

Those who fear a recession probably live above their means or paycheck to paycheck. Save for a rainy say. Make hay while the sun shines.
Anonymous
Post 01/09/2022 01:03     Subject: Is 'job-hopping' really that bad if I continue to receive promotions & raises?
Its pretty normal in some fields, especially IT. My spouse did that before being at a job for 4-6 years.
Anonymous
Post 01/09/2022 01:01     Subject: Re:Is 'job-hopping' really that bad if I continue to receive promotions & raises?
Change jobs to increase salary. Companies will hire a new person into a position for more money than the people already there. This shows no appreciation for the people already in the job.

By changing jobs, I increased my income by tens of thousands. That helped my retirement accounts a lot. During recessions, I was laid off. After all that, I decided I’m basically a free agent.

Save as much as you can and you can have financial freedoms in 10-15 years.
Anonymous
Post 01/09/2022 00:45     Subject: Is 'job-hopping' really that bad if I continue to receive promotions & raises?
Am I reading correctly that you intend for your working life to be about 13 years in total? Good luck with that.
Anonymous
Post 01/08/2022 23:50     Subject: Is 'job-hopping' really that bad if I continue to receive promotions & raises?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How can a series of jobs you’ve had under a year “not be fulfilling anymore?” As an executive who does a lot of hiring, that’s a big red flag for me - either about your judgement and what you want or your willingness to actually do any work.

The more senior you get the less possible it is to actually get onboarded and build the relationships and momentum to get things done in such a short time period. I’d be asking a lot of questions about your accomplishments and would want to speak with references in your case. My assumption you’d have to overcome is that you leave and get a new job right around when an employer expects you to be delivering your first results and that you’d do the same to me.


I think the lack of fulfillment comes from employers overselling the vision they have for myself and the company. I've turned down a few jobs because the question 'how do you see me fitting into both the company and what does my day-to-do role look like in your eyes?' I left the last company because my project wrapped up & I got put on a project that wasn't in my area of expertise to 'figure it out'. That just doesn't sit well for me professionally to be whipped around like that.

Secondarily, I find companies interview as if it's a sales pitch of 'look at what we have, it's so beautiful and you can be a part of it' and then next thing I know the job is much different. I.e. for my current role I was brought on to be the 'outward face of the company' but i'm spending 20+ hours a week doing back office stuff off the cuff because last minute a client decides they want something and since i'm at the senior manager level the execs just pass it off to me to figure out. It seems like they brought me on and don't know how to utilize me, so I'm stuck 'floating' and plugging holes as they arise in a very reactive manner, not proactively pushing towards a collective goal of the company.

My first two jobs I LOVED, I just couldn't realistically live in DC comfortably for under the 100k mark. Im fully confident that I'd receive great references from those people at the VP & senior director level. The last one and this one have seemed to be a slight bait and switch or at the very least, a wilful admission of what the job was like.


I appreciate you sharing your input, you are exactly who I'd like to hear from. I'm not *miserable* here, I just know under a year this isn't a place I'll be long term.


Yes, everyone goes through that but your are either really unlucky or appear not to be able to weather adversity for a relatively longer period of time. More than likely, since you had such large increases, you are chasing the dollar. Works great now. Very painful when the market is tight. There is an art to managing a career and seldom does short tenure to chase dollars work. Otherwise, why wouldn’t everyone be doing that? But, savy planners know that isn’t the best path for a career path (especially when things get tight).
Anonymous
Post 01/08/2022 23:46     Subject: Is 'job-hopping' really that bad if I continue to receive promotions & raises?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It will bite you when it becomes excessive. Eventually, companies won’t hire you when you become a serial job hopper, or at least a lot of doors will close.

I wouldn’t give you a chance at my firm. 4 jobs in 3 years? I’d assume you got let go.


Definitely my fear. When i interviewed with my current company they didn't even bring it up as a negative in the interview. It was more like 'wow you've had a lot of really good experiences across the industry' and that was the extent of it.


Yeah, maybe in recent times. But the music will stop and you will not get the next job in a worsening economy when many others are competing with you. The long term negative of big jumps is that you are now at $150 with less than 1 year in the job, competing against those with several years of demonstrated loyalty at the same or lessor amount. When the hiring environment switches to value hires instead of scarcity hires (and it will, it always does…1992-1996, 2008-2011, and we are now due)


Fair. I appreciate your input! I live very frugally and am part of the FIRE community so if I took a huge hit and had to go from 200k-100k it wouldn't impact my quality of life too much, but it definitely would impact my retirement plans(if that makes sense). My 'working life' is probably 10 more years & I left that part out of the initial post.


The problem is that the hit would be down to zero as no one will hire you during a recession at $100 if you were making $150 - especially since you already demonstrated money is your driver. There are good and bad forces at work when you hit $150 with little experience and are unlucky enough not to have any tenure beyond a year.
Anonymous
Post 01/08/2022 23:41     Subject: Is 'job-hopping' really that bad if I continue to receive promotions & raises?
What about people who can’t ever get promoted at current jobs hopping?

Often at companies you see a CEO and Heads of Risk, Audit, Legal, HR report in to CEO. None are qualified to be CEO so no promotion opportunity. Plus with Reorgs, mergers, new CEOs or layoffs as they are highly paid they are in firing line.

Pretty much only way up start small company and work your way to big companies.

It is pretty common. Plus stay too long also looks bad.

In this job market I say hop as next recession no hopping to be done.

Anonymous
Post 01/08/2022 23:22     Subject: Is 'job-hopping' really that bad if I continue to receive promotions & raises?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How can a series of jobs you’ve had under a year “not be fulfilling anymore?” As an executive who does a lot of hiring, that’s a big red flag for me - either about your judgement and what you want or your willingness to actually do any work.

The more senior you get the less possible it is to actually get onboarded and build the relationships and momentum to get things done in such a short time period. I’d be asking a lot of questions about your accomplishments and would want to speak with references in your case. My assumption you’d have to overcome is that you leave and get a new job right around when an employer expects you to be delivering your first results and that you’d do the same to me.


I think the lack of fulfillment comes from employers overselling the vision they have for myself and the company. I've turned down a few jobs because the question 'how do you see me fitting into both the company and what does my day-to-do role look like in your eyes?' I left the last company because my project wrapped up & I got put on a project that wasn't in my area of expertise to 'figure it out'. That just doesn't sit well for me professionally to be whipped around like that.

Secondarily, I find companies interview as if it's a sales pitch of 'look at what we have, it's so beautiful and you can be a part of it' and then next thing I know the job is much different. I.e. for my current role I was brought on to be the 'outward face of the company' but i'm spending 20+ hours a week doing back office stuff off the cuff because last minute a client decides they want something and since i'm at the senior manager level the execs just pass it off to me to figure out. It seems like they brought me on and don't know how to utilize me, so I'm stuck 'floating' and plugging holes as they arise in a very reactive manner, not proactively pushing towards a collective goal of the company.

My first two jobs I LOVED, I just couldn't realistically live in DC comfortably for under the 100k mark. Im fully confident that I'd receive great references from those people at the VP & senior director level. The last one and this one have seemed to be a slight bait and switch or at the very least, a wilful admission of what the job was like.


I appreciate you sharing your input, you are exactly who I'd like to hear from. I'm not *miserable* here, I just know under a year this isn't a place I'll be long term.


I’m the exec PP and you come across with a very junior mindset in this post. Senior manager titles are not going to be “the outward face of the company.” And ability to figure out things that aren’t exactly in your wheelhouse is exactly what separates a director from a manager. One person’s “whipped around” is another person’s opportunity for growth.

Again the thing I’d be thinking about is what you’ve actually accomplished in these roles. Your career story should be a balance of what you’ve achieved and how you’ve grown in every role. I don’t see how you could have much of that story for these last two. Personally my advice would be to use this place you know you don’t want to be forever to practice some mindset and people skills that will serve you better in the next role. Get some real accomplishments before you hop.
Anonymous
Post 01/08/2022 22:22     Subject: Is 'job-hopping' really that bad if I continue to receive promotions & raises?
Anonymous wrote:How can a series of jobs you’ve had under a year “not be fulfilling anymore?” As an executive who does a lot of hiring, that’s a big red flag for me - either about your judgement and what you want or your willingness to actually do any work.

The more senior you get the less possible it is to actually get onboarded and build the relationships and momentum to get things done in such a short time period. I’d be asking a lot of questions about your accomplishments and would want to speak with references in your case. My assumption you’d have to overcome is that you leave and get a new job right around when an employer expects you to be delivering your first results and that you’d do the same to me.


I think the lack of fulfillment comes from employers overselling the vision they have for myself and the company. I've turned down a few jobs because the question 'how do you see me fitting into both the company and what does my day-to-do role look like in your eyes?' I left the last company because my project wrapped up & I got put on a project that wasn't in my area of expertise to 'figure it out'. That just doesn't sit well for me professionally to be whipped around like that.

Secondarily, I find companies interview as if it's a sales pitch of 'look at what we have, it's so beautiful and you can be a part of it' and then next thing I know the job is much different. I.e. for my current role I was brought on to be the 'outward face of the company' but i'm spending 20+ hours a week doing back office stuff off the cuff because last minute a client decides they want something and since i'm at the senior manager level the execs just pass it off to me to figure out. It seems like they brought me on and don't know how to utilize me, so I'm stuck 'floating' and plugging holes as they arise in a very reactive manner, not proactively pushing towards a collective goal of the company.

My first two jobs I LOVED, I just couldn't realistically live in DC comfortably for under the 100k mark. Im fully confident that I'd receive great references from those people at the VP & senior director level. The last one and this one have seemed to be a slight bait and switch or at the very least, a wilful admission of what the job was like.


I appreciate you sharing your input, you are exactly who I'd like to hear from. I'm not *miserable* here, I just know under a year this isn't a place I'll be long term.
Anonymous
Post 01/08/2022 22:17     Subject: Is 'job-hopping' really that bad if I continue to receive promotions & raises?
Anonymous wrote:It will bite you when it becomes excessive. Eventually, companies won’t hire you when you become a serial job hopper, or at least a lot of doors will close.

I wouldn’t give you a chance at my firm. 4 jobs in 3 years? I’d assume you got let go.


If that’s the case, she can stay at the current job.