Anonymous
12/28/2021 12:13
Subject: Frustrated trying to figure out Tesla quality
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Ignore the people on here who clearly don't own one (the status poster for example...)
Best car I have ever owned
Not great fit and finish even in my 2017 model - but nothing major.
Incredibly fun to drive
Incredibly easy to maintain (less to go wrong...)
No wasted time at gas stations - just get in and go (how much is your time worth?)
Safety features great
The easy but somewhat fair criticism is you are paying 45% for the car, 45% for the battery and 10% for the computer. The reality is the user experience is worth multiples of what the car costs when you compare to all the alternatives
I'll never buy a gas powered car again.
Pretty much agree on all of this. If you want an electric car today, Tesla is the leader. Others are catching up - check back again in 2 years.
Disagree after test-driving several.
I also think that they are incredibly cavalier about human-factors safety issues. The lack of behind-the-wheel dials in the Model 3 is criminal relative to everything I was ever taught about cognition in human drivers. And the way they aggressively push their misnamed "Autopilot" despite several known issues is dangerous. In the US, it's hard to know how things will play out legally since our legal system is increasingly yielding to the demands of corporations, but in a more sane liability system their actions would put AI-assisted driving back years by forcing stricter regulation due to Tesla's demonstrated unwillingness to take basic precautions.
Anonymous
12/28/2021 12:07
Subject: Frustrated trying to figure out Tesla quality
I grew up in Detroit and worked at a big 3 auto company in college. Tesla quality is highly-variable. The car has some great, innovative design features, and it's impossible to argue against the fact that Tesla has made incredible contributions to the shift toward vehicle electrification. They've also innovated in other ways, such as direct-to-consumer sales. But it's a hit or miss car quality-wise.
I think a big part is that it's designed by SV engineers who think they know more than anyone [full disclosure: I'm a know-it-all SV engineer]. A friend of mine worked at Tesla in a manufacturing group, and about 5-6 years ago she was telling me her boss was interested in using data science to help with supply chain QC...stuff like sampling parts from a lot and tracking manufacturing lots. I laughed, because I did all of this with a spreadsheet and a notebook in the 90s! For whatever reason, early on Tesla opted not to learn from the things the legacy automakers did well and the lessons they'd learned from a century of mass producing consumer vehicles. They've started to hire more from legacy companies, but they're playing catch up in some ways.
If it matters, we are on our second Nissan Leaf, and DH has put in a pre-order reservation for a Cybertruck. But both he and I are on the fence of whether we'll actually want to buy it pending quality issues.
DH went to test drive a Model X a couple of years ago, and in the showroom one of the falcon doors didn't work and the back seats were stuck in an unusable position. That's in a showroom! A huge fraction of the cars have issues. People make fun of the Detroit automakers' quality, but none of them have the kind of issues that Teslas do. And stuff like the retractable door handles just feel like a part failure waiting to happen. DH and I are both trained in fields where we design for failure contingencies, longevity, and reliability...and nothing about a Tesla feels solid from that perspective.
I think a big part is that it's designed by SV engineers who think they know more than anyone [full disclosure: I'm a know-it-all SV engineer]. A friend of mine worked at Tesla in a manufacturing group, and about 5-6 years ago she was telling me her boss was interested in using data science to help with supply chain QC...stuff like sampling parts from a lot and tracking manufacturing lots. I laughed, because I did all of this with a spreadsheet and a notebook in the 90s! For whatever reason, early on Tesla opted not to learn from the things the legacy automakers did well and the lessons they'd learned from a century of mass producing consumer vehicles. They've started to hire more from legacy companies, but they're playing catch up in some ways.
If it matters, we are on our second Nissan Leaf, and DH has put in a pre-order reservation for a Cybertruck. But both he and I are on the fence of whether we'll actually want to buy it pending quality issues.
DH went to test drive a Model X a couple of years ago, and in the showroom one of the falcon doors didn't work and the back seats were stuck in an unusable position. That's in a showroom! A huge fraction of the cars have issues. People make fun of the Detroit automakers' quality, but none of them have the kind of issues that Teslas do. And stuff like the retractable door handles just feel like a part failure waiting to happen. DH and I are both trained in fields where we design for failure contingencies, longevity, and reliability...and nothing about a Tesla feels solid from that perspective.
Anonymous
12/28/2021 12:04
Subject: Frustrated trying to figure out Tesla quality
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Ignore the people on here who clearly don't own one (the status poster for example...)
Best car I have ever owned
Not great fit and finish even in my 2017 model - but nothing major.
Incredibly fun to drive
Incredibly easy to maintain (less to go wrong...)
No wasted time at gas stations - just get in and go (how much is your time worth?)
Safety features great
The easy but somewhat fair criticism is you are paying 45% for the car, 45% for the battery and 10% for the computer. The reality is the user experience is worth multiples of what the car costs when you compare to all the alternatives
I'll never buy a gas powered car again.
Agree.
If buying now again I'd buy a Tesla. If buying in 5 years it may be a brand that caught up (Porsche closest but still way behind - and expensive).
Pretty much agree on all of this. If you want an electric car today, Tesla is the leader. Others are catching up - check back again in 2 years.
Anonymous
12/28/2021 11:56
Subject: Frustrated trying to figure out Tesla quality
Anonymous wrote:Ignore the people on here who clearly don't own one (the status poster for example...)
Best car I have ever owned
Not great fit and finish even in my 2017 model - but nothing major.
Incredibly fun to drive
Incredibly easy to maintain (less to go wrong...)
No wasted time at gas stations - just get in and go (how much is your time worth?)
Safety features great
The easy but somewhat fair criticism is you are paying 45% for the car, 45% for the battery and 10% for the computer. The reality is the user experience is worth multiples of what the car costs when you compare to all the alternatives
I'll never buy a gas powered car again.
Pretty much agree on all of this. If you want an electric car today, Tesla is the leader. Others are catching up - check back again in 2 years.
Anonymous
12/28/2021 11:55
Subject: Re:Frustrated trying to figure out Tesla quality
Anonymous wrote:Our Tesla is a lemon. I don’t remember which model it is, but it cost over 110k. I think it depreciated 10 grand a year since it was bought new. It’s a pain to have it serviced and they give you “Uber credits” (during a pandemic, lol) instead of a loaner or anything to make up for the fact your luxury auto is in the shop. The service is never done when they say it should and they don’t respond to texts in a timely manner. I think it’s stupid, but my husband is trading in his lemon (he can’t stand it anymore) for one of the cheaper, newer Tesla models. Me, I have a Toyota that never needs fixing. I guess he hopes the new ones will be better? Definitely, don’t buy a luxury Tesla.
How do you not know which model you have?
Until 2 years ago, a 10K a year depreciation for a car that costs $110K is actually pretty good... but some of your points still stand. The fact that Tesla doesn't give out loaners - or when they do are not comparable cars - goes back to the fact that they are not a luxury automaker, despite the costs of their cars. You will never get BMW or Mercedes or Lexus service from a Tesla dealer. While I never ever ever would spend over $100K on a Tesla because of these issues (service and fit/quality especially), I wouldn't hesitate on the cheaper models.
You should've bought the electric Porsche.
Anonymous
12/28/2021 11:52
Subject: Frustrated trying to figure out Tesla quality
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Fit and finish is terrible. They are still new manufacturers.
They break down less because electric motors are fundamentally way way mechanically simpler than ICE. Less things to break.
I feel like I never see old Teslas on the road, which makes me suspect.
How would you know if the Tesla you are seeing is old or not? The 3 and Y both have had very slight updates that only someone who really pays attention to Tesla designs would see - at most you'd be seeing a 3 year old Model 3. For Model S and X, I see the older ones all the time, but again, the styling has changed just so slightly it would be hard to tell.
Tesla quality can be a bit all over the place. There are significantly fewer parts than a traditional gas powered car, so in that way, they are much more reliable. The vast majority of issues you see with newer 3s and Ys has to do more with fit and finish, and in this case, Tesla basically doesn't care. It is pretty common to see misaligned panels and zero attention to detail in the assembly process. They are also known for using lesser quality paint that can chip/scratch more easily than traditional manufacturers.
But, they have a leg up on charging, range, over the air updates, etc. The problem is people compare them to other vehicles as if they are a luxury manufacturer of automobiles, and so expect perfection, high quality customer service (very hit or miss) and other things you'd find in luxury cars like quiet cabins, heads up displays, etc. But they are not a luxury manufacturer and so you don't have the fit/finish and customer service that would match a BMW or Mercedes, but at pricing approaching the lower range of those competitors offerings.
Full disclosure: We own a newer Tesla 3. Is it a great car? Mostly - it is certainly a very good car with some funny quirks. Would I buy it again? Sure, considering the current available electric offerings. Am I in love with it? No. Do I think Elon Musk is our lord and savior? No - but many Tesla fanatics do.
Model S and X came out in 2013 and 2015. Those are not old cars. https://carbuzz.com/news/old-tesla-models-are-getting-a-massive-upgrade
I drive a 2010 car and I don’t even consider THAT old.
I didn't say they were old. I said the older models, compared to the newer 3 and Y.
Anonymous
12/28/2021 11:30
Subject: Frustrated trying to figure out Tesla quality
Ignore the people on here who clearly don't own one (the status poster for example...)
Best car I have ever owned
Not great fit and finish even in my 2017 model - but nothing major.
Incredibly fun to drive
Incredibly easy to maintain (less to go wrong...)
No wasted time at gas stations - just get in and go (how much is your time worth?)
Safety features great
The easy but somewhat fair criticism is you are paying 45% for the car, 45% for the battery and 10% for the computer. The reality is the user experience is worth multiples of what the car costs when you compare to all the alternatives
I'll never buy a gas powered car again.
Best car I have ever owned
Not great fit and finish even in my 2017 model - but nothing major.
Incredibly fun to drive
Incredibly easy to maintain (less to go wrong...)
No wasted time at gas stations - just get in and go (how much is your time worth?)
Safety features great
The easy but somewhat fair criticism is you are paying 45% for the car, 45% for the battery and 10% for the computer. The reality is the user experience is worth multiples of what the car costs when you compare to all the alternatives
I'll never buy a gas powered car again.
Anonymous
12/28/2021 11:29
Subject: Re:Frustrated trying to figure out Tesla quality
Our Tesla is a lemon. I don’t remember which model it is, but it cost over 110k. I think it depreciated 10 grand a year since it was bought new. It’s a pain to have it serviced and they give you “Uber credits” (during a pandemic, lol) instead of a loaner or anything to make up for the fact your luxury auto is in the shop. The service is never done when they say it should and they don’t respond to texts in a timely manner. I think it’s stupid, but my husband is trading in his lemon (he can’t stand it anymore) for one of the cheaper, newer Tesla models. Me, I have a Toyota that never needs fixing. I guess he hopes the new ones will be better? Definitely, don’t buy a luxury Tesla.
Anonymous
12/28/2021 11:15
Subject: Frustrated trying to figure out Tesla quality
Overall, there are fewer things that can go wrong. We’ve had a few minor issues on our Teslas. Recently though it’s been almost impossible to get service work done given that the service centers haven’t scaled sufficiently to meet demand.
So the challenge isn’t the rare chance that something breaks, it’s how long it’ll take to get it fixed. Fortunately, issues are almost all minor so mostly just annoying.
So the challenge isn’t the rare chance that something breaks, it’s how long it’ll take to get it fixed. Fortunately, issues are almost all minor so mostly just annoying.
Anonymous
12/28/2021 11:09
Subject: Frustrated trying to figure out Tesla quality
People buy Tesla for status. That’s it. So you have a new car for a few years then discard. That’s how the CR ratings make sense
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/lexus-lincoln-tesla-consumer-reports-reliability-data-list/
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/lexus-lincoln-tesla-consumer-reports-reliability-data-list/
Anonymous
12/28/2021 11:07
Subject: Frustrated trying to figure out Tesla quality
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Fit and finish is terrible. They are still new manufacturers.
They break down less because electric motors are fundamentally way way mechanically simpler than ICE. Less things to break.
I feel like I never see old Teslas on the road, which makes me suspect.
How would you know if the Tesla you are seeing is old or not? The 3 and Y both have had very slight updates that only someone who really pays attention to Tesla designs would see - at most you'd be seeing a 3 year old Model 3. For Model S and X, I see the older ones all the time, but again, the styling has changed just so slightly it would be hard to tell.
Tesla quality can be a bit all over the place. There are significantly fewer parts than a traditional gas powered car, so in that way, they are much more reliable. The vast majority of issues you see with newer 3s and Ys has to do more with fit and finish, and in this case, Tesla basically doesn't care. It is pretty common to see misaligned panels and zero attention to detail in the assembly process. They are also known for using lesser quality paint that can chip/scratch more easily than traditional manufacturers.
But, they have a leg up on charging, range, over the air updates, etc. The problem is people compare them to other vehicles as if they are a luxury manufacturer of automobiles, and so expect perfection, high quality customer service (very hit or miss) and other things you'd find in luxury cars like quiet cabins, heads up displays, etc. But they are not a luxury manufacturer and so you don't have the fit/finish and customer service that would match a BMW or Mercedes, but at pricing approaching the lower range of those competitors offerings.
Full disclosure: We own a newer Tesla 3. Is it a great car? Mostly - it is certainly a very good car with some funny quirks. Would I buy it again? Sure, considering the current available electric offerings. Am I in love with it? No. Do I think Elon Musk is our lord and savior? No - but many Tesla fanatics do.
Model S and X came out in 2013 and 2015. Those are not old cars. https://carbuzz.com/news/old-tesla-models-are-getting-a-massive-upgrade
I drive a 2010 car and I don’t even consider THAT old.
Anonymous
12/28/2021 10:59
Subject: Frustrated trying to figure out Tesla quality
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If you’re even remotely concerned about reliability, whether out of practicality or costs, you should probably consider something other than a Tesla. No different than a Land Rover. Don’t buy one unless you’re comfortable with possibility of unexpected trips to the service department and/or repair bills - not saying either are definite, but deciding based solely off of probability.
Do you know how warranties work?
I have a neighbor's whose X has been sitting for months now waiting for warranty repairs. A warranty does nothing if there are no parts available
Anonymous
12/28/2021 10:40
Subject: Frustrated trying to figure out Tesla quality
They're fine, especially if you buy new. I really haven't had any more problems than I have had with my Toyota SUV. Probably fewer.
If you need body work, they have to go to a shop that specializes because of how the car is designed. Driving out to Chantilly after we were rear ended wasn't the most fun since the Tysons dealer is a few blocks from our house. But not a huge deal.
I love it because it is the best electric on the market right now and it is fun and fast and safe.
If you need body work, they have to go to a shop that specializes because of how the car is designed. Driving out to Chantilly after we were rear ended wasn't the most fun since the Tysons dealer is a few blocks from our house. But not a huge deal.
I love it because it is the best electric on the market right now and it is fun and fast and safe.
Anonymous
12/28/2021 10:34
Subject: Frustrated trying to figure out Tesla quality
Seems that even DCUM makes it super hard to figure out tesla quality, lol.
Anonymous
12/28/2021 10:13
Subject: Frustrated trying to figure out Tesla quality
Anonymous wrote:If you’re even remotely concerned about reliability, whether out of practicality or costs, you should probably consider something other than a Tesla. No different than a Land Rover. Don’t buy one unless you’re comfortable with possibility of unexpected trips to the service department and/or repair bills - not saying either are definite, but deciding based solely off of probability.
Do you know how warranties work?