Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am guessing you went to a mid-tier law school and are now gleeful about telling the Duke guy to "take a number".

No I went to a T6. I'm just a little appalled by his attitude, is all.

A what?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this post should have the title - Arrogant Federal Attorney Complains About Arrogant Big Firm Attorney -- Are All Attorneys Arrogant?

HA! I thought the same thing.bkarma is a B OP. Try to be nice.

+1 you both sound pretty obnoxious and entitled, OP. And I say that as someone who was at a prestigious litigating Fed agency for many years - yes, we got a bunch of biglaw applicants, but by and large, most of them were very well qualified for the job. And in the end since my office was a exit to biglaw counsel/partner, most of them went right back after doing a 3-5 year stint anyway.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this post should have the title - Arrogant Federal Attorney Complains About Arrogant Big Firm Attorney -- Are All Attorneys Arrogant?

HA! I thought the same thing.bkarma is a B OP. Try to be nice.

I was extremely nice to this guy in person and I will continue to try to help him out with his job search as much as I can. I just came here to complain about his attitude, is all.

I've seen a lot of the things mentioned on here as well. I've been with an agency for about 6 years, after 7 in biglaw.

If I were a biglaw attorney applying for federal jobs, I would just do whatever I can to show interest, knowledge, and experience relevant to the specific office and position. And just be mindful of the fact that, at least in my office, we have quite a few career feds who are going to be sensitive to your demeanor and reasons for applying. I know others in my office get down on candidates when it's clear they just want or need out of biglaw, and/or feel that we would be lucky to have them by virtue of their biglaw experience. Federal hiring is such a slog, no one wants to invest time hiring and developing someone who is just using this as a temporary landing spot.

The biglaw attorneys that I work with are PITAs at my agency. While they might be great attorneys, they're used to having secretaries, paralegals, and junior associates do their work. None of which are present in my agency. The griping over simple tasks is unreal and they are very slow at them.

Anonymous wrote:Interesting comment about trial experience. I look for attorneys who write well enough to win their cases on a motion.

True. The legal field went long ago from needing litigation skills to paper pushing.

Anonymous wrote:I think this post should have the title - Arrogant Federal Attorney Complains About Arrogant Big Firm Attorney -- Are All Attorneys Arrogant?

HA! I thought the same thing.bkarma is a B OP. Try to be nice.

I’m writing this from the perspective of a moderately successful attorney married to a big law attorney.

1. I have the sense that some people who leave big law at that stage have a chip on their shoulder because they are just finding out that they aren’t cut out for partner.

2. The crap big law firms feed you about how Uber special their firms are can make you feel overly important.

3. *When comparing equal work*, like document production v document production, I do think that big law attorneys and attorneys in positions as competitive as theirs produce better work on the whole. I think we should be honest with ourselves and say that when you have no chance of losing your job or being pushed out, some people are going to be less-motivated to do good-quality work. Also if you’re getting paid the typical attorney salary, you aren’t paid to work yourself ragged to produce good quality work and gain commensurate experience. So big law associates might see a disparity in quality of other attorneys v big law attorneys and assume that it’s them, they’re the cause of the quality (and it could be true).

5. Big law attorneys often don’t realize that as they keep doing their general litigation, others are specializing in a way that offers more value. They don’t know the value of those they are competing against because they have their noses to the grindstone and nobody sees enough value in them to mentor them and let them know.

6. I think big law is heavily populated with entitled white men who act like this.

I cannot believe the arrogance of an attorney from the private sector thinking that he is well qualified for a vacancy advertised by a federal agency.

I think this post should have the title - Arrogant Federal Attorney Complains About Arrogant Big Firm Attorney -- Are All Attorneys Arrogant?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP had me until, "And that it takes them 5+ years in biglaw to get the same level of responsibility that we give to first year honors attorneys at my agency." I doubt that is true. It certainly is not at my agency. OP should also realize that what she does is not all that unique. In my experience, I know I can train anyone, so academic credentials are important to me.

Our honors attorneys manage their own cases completely. They are the principal drafters of all their own briefs, motions, discovery requests, etc., they conduct their own depositions, negotiate with counter-parties, and regularly argue in district court. I've never met a biglaw associate who did any of those things in less than 5 years.

My agency and group might be especially good at giving high quality experience to young attorneys, but in general most fed attorneys are getting a lot more responsibility earlier on than most biglaw attorneys.

They draft the brief, motions, discovery, and no one looks it over ... right. What do you think big firm litigation associates do?

Anonymous wrote:I am reluctant to hire 6th or 7th year associates from large law firms. I am not interested in hiring someone who wants to join my agency as their back up plan now that they realize they cannot make partner. You need to convince me that the reason you are applying is not just because you are about to be passed over for partnership. I look for 3rd to 5th year associates. They are more likely to be leaving on their own accord.

Same here. If you've hit up-or-out, you're going to have to have some actual evidence that you're interested in public service besides it being your Plan B. I've seen it happen, but younger associates are usually better -- some always planned to work for a few years to pay down loans, some realized that they hated Biglaw -- and they don't tend to think that they know everything yet.

Anonymous wrote:OP sounds like a mean girl to me seeking revenge on people who went to top schools.

If you cannot help him, just let him know OP so he can move on to someone who can. Try being decent during the holiday season.

I went to crappy state law school and have enough influence/power to help people regardless of where they went o school. I don't begrudge the Harvards of the world.

OP here. I guess my rant came off a little too ranty, but I was actually extremely nice and gentle with this person during our conversation. And I am genuinely happy to help in how I can, including reviewing and providing feedback on his resume and passing it along when I can. His attitude is what threw me off.

Interesting comment about trial experience. I look for attorneys who write well enough to win their cases on a motion.

Anonymous wrote:OP had me until, "And that it takes them 5+ years in biglaw to get the same level of responsibility that we give to first year honors attorneys at my agency." I doubt that is true. It certainly is not at my agency. OP should also realize that what she does is not all that unique. In my experience, I know I can train anyone, so academic credentials are important to me.

Our honors attorneys manage their own cases completely. They are the principal drafters of all their own briefs, motions, discovery requests, etc., they conduct their own depositions, negotiate with counter-parties, and regularly argue in district court. I've never met a biglaw associate who did any of those things in less than 5 years.

My agency and group might be especially good at giving high quality experience to young attorneys, but in general most fed attorneys are getting a lot more responsibility earlier on than most biglaw attorneys.