Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a new buzzword.

Here is an article about it. I don’t expect a man who is feeling defensive about it would get much out of the article, but if you’re genuinely curious it’s pretty eye-opening.

https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a12063822/emotional-labor-gender-equality/

It doesn’t exactly resonate with me because my marriage dynamic isn’t like this, but I know it’s common.

This is from four years ago by the way, and links articles that come before that.

One quote:
“My husband, despite his good nature and admirable intentions, still responds to criticism in a very patriarchal way. Forcing him to see emotional labor for the work it is feels like a personal attack on his character. If I were to point out random emotional labor duties I carry out—reminding him of his family’s birthdays, carrying in my head the entire school handbook and dietary guidelines for lunches, updating the calendar to include everyone’s schedules, asking his mother to babysit the kids when we go out, keeping track of what food and household items we are running low on, tidying everyone’s strewn about belongings, the unending hell that is laundry—he would take it as me saying, “Look at everything I’m doing that you’re not. You’re a bad person for ignoring me and not pulling your weight.””

+1 I'd add, it's not an accident that he does that. It's a way to deflect the conversation and put her on the wrong foot. Now she's reassuring him that he's a good person, that he's a great husband and father and he works so hard and he does so much, etc., etc. And now she feels guilty for even bringing it up, and is less likely to bring it up again, and he doesn't have to change anything.

Anonymous wrote:I understand that this is a real thing based on a societal expectation carried over from a time when most women didn’t work outside the home. What I don’t understand is why women like those on DCUM allow this to persist. You recognize it’s happening and yet you keep doing it? Why?

Sometimes it’s because men and women have different standards. My husband would rather throw out clothing than work to remove stains. If he planned birthday parties, the kids would have the same party every year, there would be no decorations, and there wouldn’t be any food for the guest with celiac disease to eat. If he planned holiday celebrations, we’d always have pizza on paper plates and very few, if any, decorations. If he was responsible for scheduling summer camps, he’d book the very first camp he looked at and he’d figure that we would figure out transportation later on. When he took dd to urgent care for a sore throat, I got texts from dh because he couldn’t fill out the paperwork. He didn’t know what medications dd takes or what doses. When I had to leave home to care for a dying parent, dh just decided dd didn’t need her medication, so he stopped giving it to her, even though it’s one that you’re not supposed to quit cold turkey.

Dh is completely capable of doing better. He chooses not to because this stuff doesn’t matter to him. It matters to me, so I take care of all of it.

Even in the most equal marriages, with the most progressive men, women tend to bear the majority of a mental load. It doesn’t always equal an unhappy marriage or relationship. Some people don’t mind it at all. But it’s remembering all the details like birthdays, homework assignments and due dates, tasks that need to be performed, grocery list, vacation plans. It adds up that is the mental load. It’s not a fad or a buzz word.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand that this is a real thing based on a societal expectation carried over from a time when most women didn’t work outside the home. What I don’t understand is why women like those on DCUM allow this to persist. You recognize it’s happening and yet you keep doing it? Why?

Because I have to.

My husband agreed he would be responsible for all medical appointments. My 9 yr old has been 3 times in her whole life and now needs one baby tooth capped and another pulled.

It’s either take things back that are supposed to be on his plate, or divorce. And I actually do love him so that’s not a good solution.

+1

Why not ask why men allow this to persist? You're accepting the framing that it is a woman's job to manage the household work.

And you keep doing it because these are often things that you can't just let slide without negative consequences, including for children who didn't have any control over it. Not doing these things means your kids don't get vaccinated or have their teeth cleaned; don't have shoes or clothes that fit and are appropriate for the weather, don't have school supplies, don't have meals.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not new, and it's not exclusive to DCUM. Who in your household keeps track of birthdays, doctors appointments, clothing sizes, early dismissals, permission slips, camp signups, holiday cards, and meal planning? Does that person also have a paid job?

Me! Full time out of the house job! all the above plus sports practice, piano, my own workout, aging parent care! No mental load here. It's called life people. Get over yourself.

This isn’t the dynamic in all marriages. It’s not in mine, for instance (I’m the wife), and maybe it isn’t in yours. But perhaps telling women who are pointing out the dynamic that they need to get over themselves, quit acting with defensiveness and get irritated with other men who refuse to see the burden their spouses carry.

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a new buzzword.

Here is an article about it. I don’t expect a man who is feeling defensive about it would get much out of the article, but if you’re genuinely curious it’s pretty eye-opening.

https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a12063822/emotional-labor-gender-equality/

It doesn’t exactly resonate with me because my marriage dynamic isn’t like this, but I know it’s common.

This is from four years ago by the way, and links articles that come before that.

One quote:
“My husband, despite his good nature and admirable intentions, still responds to criticism in a very patriarchal way. Forcing him to see emotional labor for the work it is feels like a personal attack on his character. If I were to point out random emotional labor duties I carry out—reminding him of his family’s birthdays, carrying in my head the entire school handbook and dietary guidelines for lunches, updating the calendar to include everyone’s schedules, asking his mother to babysit the kids when we go out, keeping track of what food and household items we are running low on, tidying everyone’s strewn about belongings, the unending hell that is laundry—he would take it as me saying, “Look at everything I’m doing that you’re not. You’re a bad person for ignoring me and not pulling your weight.””

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not new, and it's not exclusive to DCUM. Who in your household keeps track of birthdays, doctors appointments, clothing sizes, early dismissals, permission slips, camp signups, holiday cards, and meal planning? Does that person also have a paid job?

Me! Full time out of the house job! all the above plus sports practice, piano, my own workout, aging parent care! No mental load here. It's called life people. Get over yourself.

But yes that is the mental load you’re just refusing to call it that. “Life” includes both mental labor and physical labor. If you’re doing it all you are in fact carrying the mental load.

It’s not a new buzzword.

Here is an article about it. I don’t expect a man who is feeling defensive about it would get much out of the article, but if you’re genuinely curious it’s pretty eye-opening.

https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a12063822/emotional-labor-gender-equality/

It doesn’t exactly resonate with me because my marriage dynamic isn’t like this, but I know it’s common.

Anonymous wrote:It's not new, and it's not exclusive to DCUM. Who in your household keeps track of birthdays, doctors appointments, clothing sizes, early dismissals, permission slips, camp signups, holiday cards, and meal planning? Does that person also have a paid job?

Me! Full time out of the house job! all the above plus sports practice, piano, my own workout, aging parent care! No mental load here. It's called life people. Get over yourself.

Anonymous wrote:I understand that this is a real thing based on a societal expectation carried over from a time when most women didn’t work outside the home. What I don’t understand is why women like those on DCUM allow this to persist. You recognize it’s happening and yet you keep doing it? Why?

Because sometimes showing the inequality, sharing how you feel about the inequality, encouraging your spouse to step up, cajoling your spouse, threatening, crying-none of that changes the situation.

Like one of the pp, I'm now divorced.

I remember heading into work one day knowing I was going to work a 12 which included a stressful event. I told my then-spouse. "I'm going to have a long stressful day at work. I should be home by 7:00 and it would really mean a lot to me if you would make dinner or order something so I can eat when I get home (always too stressed to eat at events)." Spouse says okay. Got home at 7:00, " how was your day, what's for dinner?" Silence. "We talked about it this morning and you were going to handle dinner." "I didn't know what you would want so I waited for you."

That times 365 will drive a person batty. I handed this person on a platter the small task that would make me very happy and make me feel loved and they couldn't/wouldn't/didn't do it. Two years later, spouse says, "I feel like you are always mad at me." And I was.

Anonymous wrote:I really don't understand this term "mental" load, maybe menial load, physical load, but mental - no, that's not right.

I also call it “administrative load” because it’s what the admin staff at my job do. But it’s *not* physical load. DH will do the physical work of cleaning bottles if I remind him a few times. He will never ever take over monitoring how many more feeds the baby will have before we need to wash bottles again and thus notice himself it’s time to do it. That’s the mental part.

Anonymous wrote:I understand that this is a real thing based on a societal expectation carried over from a time when most women didn’t work outside the home. What I don’t understand is why women like those on DCUM allow this to persist. You recognize it’s happening and yet you keep doing it? Why?

Because in many cases men choose to believe that this mental load either doesn’t exist or isn’t that time consuming. That is why it is so helpful to discuss these things because it validates and gives language to open the discussion with your partner.

Anonymous wrote:I understand that this is a real thing based on a societal expectation carried over from a time when most women didn’t work outside the home. What I don’t understand is why women like those on DCUM allow this to persist. You recognize it’s happening and yet you keep doing it? Why?

Because I have to.

My husband agreed he would be responsible for all medical appointments. My 9 yr old has been 3 times in her whole life and now needs one baby tooth capped and another pulled.

It’s either take things back that are supposed to be on his plate, or divorce. And I actually do love him so that’s not a good solution.

The real question is what is with all the men on DCUM who can't grasp the concept of the "mental load" of family planning and household management? My DH gets it and so do most of the men I know. But DCUM has this cadre of men who are like the middle aged, married (or divorced) version of an intel -- they think women are stupid and evil and blame them for all of their problems.

Mental load, second shift, etc. -- these ideas have been around since the 80s and 90s. But these guys don't pay attention because they do. not. care.

I understand that this is a real thing based on a societal expectation carried over from a time when most women didn’t work outside the home. What I don’t understand is why women like those on DCUM allow this to persist. You recognize it’s happening and yet you keep doing it? Why?