Anonymous
Post 12/08/2021 11:28     Subject: Should NATO/ US planes bomb the Russian military massing on the Ukraine border?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If the Russian troops advance I am good with a NATO alliance providing air support.

We need to give it up on Nordstream 2. All the parties to the actual agreement want that to happen. It's not ideal, but as demonstrated by Russian troops at the border of Ukraine we have much bigger fish to fry. If we let Putin take Ukraine we have massive problems in the area. Europe cares, but Europe can't do it on its own.


Why do WE have a massive problem in the area? Exactly what is our interest in a tiny country with a failing economy that's just as authoritarian and corrupt as Russia?

Look. There is something the world doesn't understand, and it's that there is really no such thing as independent Ukraine. There is no real history of sovereignty in the Ukraine outside of the last 20-30 years, and there is also the truth that independence is the lot of the strong and the rich. There is no such thing as independence for small, weak, poor countries. They have to have a patron and depend on someone. The only difference is in how much they enjoy the relationship. If they do, it's called strategic collaboration, if they don't, it's oppression. So keep that in mind as you discuss "independent" Ukraine.


1. Ukraine is not a tiny country. It is the 2nd largest by area in Europe. It has over 50 million people.
2. The Ruthenians/Kievan Rus have a long and well documented history dating back to the 9th century. It has always been separate from the Muscovites (ie: Russians).

Anonymous
Post 12/08/2021 11:17     Subject: Should NATO/ US planes bomb the Russian military massing on the Ukraine border?
Anonymous wrote:I don't think there is any mininterpretation to intentions. The Russians have already invaded Ukraine and have been involved in an ongoing campaign in Donbas.

The Russians do not have the right to dictate what happens in another country's borders. The US and Europeans have made it clear that any military action will be met with swift (pardon the pun) reaction that will decimate the Russian economy.

If the Russian want to back down, they can continue with their fossil fuel exports and association with the global economy, which servers their money laundering oligarchs.

Does the US have the right? Because it seems like the US does it all the time.
Anonymous
Post 12/08/2021 10:57     Subject: Should NATO/ US planes bomb the Russian military massing on the Ukraine border?
Anonymous wrote:If the Russian troops advance I am good with a NATO alliance providing air support.

We need to give it up on Nordstream 2. All the parties to the actual agreement want that to happen. It's not ideal, but as demonstrated by Russian troops at the border of Ukraine we have much bigger fish to fry. If we let Putin take Ukraine we have massive problems in the area. Europe cares, but Europe can't do it on its own.


Why do WE have a massive problem in the area? Exactly what is our interest in a tiny country with a failing economy that's just as authoritarian and corrupt as Russia?

Look. There is something the world doesn't understand, and it's that there is really no such thing as independent Ukraine. There is no real history of sovereignty in the Ukraine outside of the last 20-30 years, and there is also the truth that independence is the lot of the strong and the rich. There is no such thing as independence for small, weak, poor countries. They have to have a patron and depend on someone. The only difference is in how much they enjoy the relationship. If they do, it's called strategic collaboration, if they don't, it's oppression. So keep that in mind as you discuss "independent" Ukraine.
Anonymous
Post 12/08/2021 10:51     Subject: Should NATO/ US planes bomb the Russian military massing on the Ukraine border?
Anonymous wrote:The world just needs to adopt green energy faster. It'll obliterate the Russian economy, which is overly reliant on oil with almost no diversification. How are they going to pay for soldiers, bombs, tanks, etc. in the future? The best weapon out there is to ditch oil and fossil fuels.


Please do! I'm sure Ukrainians look forward to winter without heat.
Anonymous
Post 12/08/2021 10:51     Subject: Should NATO/ US planes bomb the Russian military massing on the Ukraine border?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The world just needs to adopt green energy faster. It'll obliterate the Russian economy, which is overly reliant on oil with almost no diversification. How are they going to pay for soldiers, bombs, tanks, etc. in the future? The best weapon out there is to ditch oil and fossil fuels.


It would obliterate several other economies as well, perhaps even our own.


With the Russian economy obliterated, don't forget that the Ukraine will have to use pork lard to stay warm in winter.
Anonymous
Post 12/08/2021 10:50     Subject: Should NATO/ US planes bomb the Russian military massing on the Ukraine border?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The Europeans aren’t interested in Ukraine so why should we be? Ukraine’s not worth one American life or penny.


The Baltics, Poland and Romania all care what happens and they are all NATO allies. Armenia and Georgia also care.


But Russia cares too and you can't really deny that for sheer reasons of proximity, Russia has many more reasons to be concerned about Ukraine than the US. I mean you don't think that the US would be entirely indifferent to the developments, say, in Canada or Mexico?
Anonymous
Post 12/08/2021 10:30     Subject: Should NATO/ US planes bomb the Russian military massing on the Ukraine border?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Just ban Bitcoin if you really want to f#ck with the Russians.


I think the whole point of Bitcoin is no one has the power to ban Bitcoin? I admit I know nothing about Bitcoun, but I thought that was the entire point of it.


It is the new "mob money"
Anonymous
Post 12/08/2021 10:29     Subject: Should NATO/ US planes bomb the Russian military massing on the Ukraine border?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If the Russian troops advance I am good with a NATO alliance providing air support.

We need to give it up on Nordstream 2. All the parties to the actual agreement want that to happen. It's not ideal, but as demonstrated by Russian troops at the border of Ukraine we have much bigger fish to fry. If we let Putin take Ukraine we have massive problems in the area. Europe cares, but Europe can't do it on its own.

Without credible ground forces, air power in of itself cannot significantly alter the battle space, especially against a foe that will contest any air ops. Air power cannot seize and hold ground. The Ukraine Army is not credible or capable of doing this with or without air support. It will only escalate to a wider war and Ukraine is not worth that. Sure, use all the non-kinetic tools at our disposal to get the Russians to stand down but war, as we have seen over and over for two decades of failure, is not the answer.


Yep, all of this. Bottom line: Is America going to go war with Russia over Ukraine? Doubtful.
Anonymous
Post 12/08/2021 10:27     Subject: Should NATO/ US planes bomb the Russian military massing on the Ukraine border?
Anonymous wrote:The world just needs to adopt green energy faster. It'll obliterate the Russian economy, which is overly reliant on oil with almost no diversification. How are they going to pay for soldiers, bombs, tanks, etc. in the future? The best weapon out there is to ditch oil and fossil fuels.


It would obliterate several other economies as well, perhaps even our own.
Anonymous
Post 12/08/2021 09:45     Subject: Should NATO/ US planes bomb the Russian military massing on the Ukraine border?
Anonymous wrote:If the Russian troops advance I am good with a NATO alliance providing air support.

We need to give it up on Nordstream 2. All the parties to the actual agreement want that to happen. It's not ideal, but as demonstrated by Russian troops at the border of Ukraine we have much bigger fish to fry. If we let Putin take Ukraine we have massive problems in the area. Europe cares, but Europe can't do it on its own.

Without credible ground forces, air power in of itself cannot significantly alter the battle space, especially against a foe that will contest any air ops. Air power cannot seize and hold ground. The Ukraine Army is not credible or capable of doing this with or without air support. It will only escalate to a wider war and Ukraine is not worth that. Sure, use all the non-kinetic tools at our disposal to get the Russians to stand down but war, as we have seen over and over for two decades of failure, is not the answer.
Anonymous
Post 12/08/2021 09:41     Subject: Should NATO/ US planes bomb the Russian military massing on the Ukraine border?
The world just needs to adopt green energy faster. It'll obliterate the Russian economy, which is overly reliant on oil with almost no diversification. How are they going to pay for soldiers, bombs, tanks, etc. in the future? The best weapon out there is to ditch oil and fossil fuels.
Anonymous
Post 12/08/2021 09:30     Subject: Should NATO/ US planes bomb the Russian military massing on the Ukraine border?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Just ban Bitcoin if you really want to f#ck with the Russians.


I think the whole point of Bitcoin is no one has the power to ban Bitcoin? I admit I know nothing about Bitcoun, but I thought that was the entire point of it.


You can ban US banks from transacting with it, converting USD fiat into BTC, providing trading/custodial services, etc. Basically, if US banks don't transact with it then the market collapses. The entire point of BTC is to get around Western sanctions and money laundering laws.

It should surprise no one that the whitepaper for BTC was published right before the Obama administration came to power and Russia began it's aggressive push into influencing former Soviet states. In an era of individual glory and clout chasing, the only individuals who would want to remain anonymous as "Satoshi Nakamoto" is a nation-state.

The dominance of the USD is the American people's greatest source of power.


Anonymous
Post 12/08/2021 09:26     Subject: Should NATO/ US planes bomb the Russian military massing on the Ukraine border?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The Europeans aren’t interested in Ukraine so why should we be? Ukraine’s not worth one American life or penny.


The Baltics, Poland and Romania all care what happens and they are all NATO allies. Armenia and Georgia also care.

And we’ll defend our NATO allies as per the treaty. Armenia and Georgia are as big of political basket cases as Ukraine. Abkhazia and South Ossetia for all intents and purposes are long broken away from Georgia and remain supported by Russia.
We have zero responsibility to defend Ukraine. I suppose though the Pentagon, eager to forget the defeats of the last twenty years, is just itching for a fight and the MIC is hungry for more $$$.
Anonymous
Post 12/08/2021 09:23     Subject: Should NATO/ US planes bomb the Russian military massing on the Ukraine border?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The Europeans aren’t interested in Ukraine so why should we be? Ukraine’s not worth one American life or penny.


The Baltics, Poland and Romania all care what happens and they are all NATO allies. Armenia and Georgia also care.


Will they commit troops? Station them on the border?


They all already have troops at their Russian border, except for Romania which borders Ukraine.
Anonymous
Post 12/08/2021 09:22     Subject: Should NATO/ US planes bomb the Russian military massing on the Ukraine border?
If the Russian troops advance I am good with a NATO alliance providing air support.

We need to give it up on Nordstream 2. All the parties to the actual agreement want that to happen. It's not ideal, but as demonstrated by Russian troops at the border of Ukraine we have much bigger fish to fry. If we let Putin take Ukraine we have massive problems in the area. Europe cares, but Europe can't do it on its own.