Anonymous wrote:What about the Lourie Center? I have no experience with them, but I think they support more significant social emotional needs.

They start in PK and end at 5th. The older you are, the harder it is to get in since they don't have much time to work with you

What about the Lourie Center? I have no experience with them, but I think they support more significant social emotional needs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here again - this last post is so helpful. The advice we were given by our psychiatrist on the SESES program is that it includes kids with really extreme forms of aggression or social emotional needs and therefore means we'd be putting our DS in a classroom with other extreme kids. Wouldn't it be better to keep him in a mainstream classroom and give him the social emotional resources needed to succeed?

It really depends. Sometimes, being the "only" kid with these problems can be isolating and stressful, and lead to anxiety and worse problems. Being with other kids who share the same problems and where it can be discussed openly can be freeing, allowing kids to acknowledge that they are struggling and help them work toward a solution. A specialized classroom, with a teacher who understands and can implement supportive policies, can be more helpful than an undertrained and underpaid aide.

Other times, the problems of other kids in the classroom can be overwhelming, to both students and the teachers, and no one gets their needs met.

PP with kid at RICA. Friendships are so much easier here. In his class, everyone has issues. Some are the same as his and some are different. But no one excludes a kid for having a meltdown or having to go to the tension reduction room. They all realize that they do will be or have been there. These kids are also much more empathetic to each other. Kids hang out after school and on weekend and parents don’t judge either.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - what i mean by social emotional is that he has low frustration tolerance and when he gets angered (in the classroom) he will throw things, yell at other kids, elope (the classroom and sometimes the building). So yes, aggression and low frustration coupled with anger. We just started him on Abilify, which seems to be helping a bit. We have IEP meeting tomorrow and will ask for a one on one aid, but we aren't confident MCPS will provide that. If MCPS won't provide the services he needs, and Diener and Auburn don't take aggressive kids, where do we turn? He's only 8.

Your list is missing KTS. You actually might be able to get a private placement with that profile. Do you have an advocate?

Katherine Thomas School will not take kids with aggressive behaviors--they are even less likely to than Auburn or Diener. And there is zero chance of a private placement if an SESES program hasn't even been tried.

What is KTS? No, we don't have an advocate yet but are looking. Any recommendations on good advocates would be really helpful. Thanks!

Anonymous wrote:OP here - what i mean by social emotional is that he has low frustration tolerance and when he gets angered (in the classroom) he will throw things, yell at other kids, elope (the classroom and sometimes the building). So yes, aggression and low frustration coupled with anger. We just started him on Abilify, which seems to be helping a bit. We have IEP meeting tomorrow and will ask for a one on one aid, but we aren't confident MCPS will provide that. If MCPS won't provide the services he needs, and Diener and Auburn don't take aggressive kids, where do we turn? He's only 8.

Your list is missing KTS. You actually might be able to get a private placement with that profile. Do you have an advocate?

Anonymous wrote:Diener definitely has kids with some pretty big social-emotional issues. I don't know about throwing things and eloping, but if you can get that under control, you might be able to make the case.

When we toured Auburn several years ago, they definitely had kids who threw things and eloped out of the classroom (I don't know about the building). Since we didn't end up going there, I don't know if the parents were happy about how it was handled.

Anonymous wrote:OP here again - this last post is so helpful. The advice we were given by our psychiatrist on the SESES program is that it includes kids with really extreme forms of aggression or social emotional needs and therefore means we'd be putting our DS in a classroom with other extreme kids. Wouldn't it be better to keep him in a mainstream classroom and give him the social emotional resources needed to succeed?

It really depends. Sometimes, being the "only" kid with these problems can be isolating and stressful, and lead to anxiety and worse problems. Being with other kids who share the same problems and where it can be discussed openly can be freeing, allowing kids to acknowledge that they are struggling and help them work toward a solution. A specialized classroom, with a teacher who understands and can implement supportive policies, can be more helpful than an undertrained and underpaid aide.

Other times, the problems of other kids in the classroom can be overwhelming, to both students and the teachers, and no one gets their needs met.

OP here again - this last post is so helpful. The advice we were given by our psychiatrist on the SESES program is that it includes kids with really extreme forms of aggression or social emotional needs and therefore means we'd be putting our DS in a classroom with other extreme kids. Wouldn't it be better to keep him in a mainstream classroom and give him the social emotional resources needed to succeed?

Anonymous wrote:Diener definitely has kids with some pretty big social-emotional issues. I don't know about throwing things and eloping, but if you can get that under control, you might be able to make the case.

I am not aware of them having kids that throw or elope and I am not sure they would handle it well. That is beyond their capabilities and I don't believe they would take it on. They don't really handle social emotional well, IMHO, but I am not sure who does. Auburn has a more ABA like approach. OP, in your situation, I would stick with public and work on the meds.

Anonymous wrote:OP here again - thanks for this last message. It's helpful. Yes he's in a traditional mainstream classroom, and yes we are considering the the SESES program. Unfortunately the closest SESES school to us doesn't have any openings and is understaffed, and the next closest one requires a long bus ride which DS would likely not be willing to do. From what I've read a one on one aid is a good next step. I don't understand why that would be restrictive, in fact I thought it would be the opposite (i.e. when DS needs a break from the noise in the classroom the aid would be able to walk him around a bit instead of having him elope on his own). Have others seen one on one aids be overly restrictive? Thanks for all the feedback. This is so new to us.

Well, the first problem is that they won't be able to find an aide. They are woefully understaffed and nobody is applying for positions, particularly para-educators. You are going to get really hard pushback and will probably not get a 1:1 without a lawyer at this point because they simply don't have one to give. They're going to say no and you will have to fight it, and honestly if an SESES classroom has not even been tried, you would probably not win. Because being in an SESES classroom without a 1:1 is often seen as less far along the "least restrictive environment" continuum than being in a mainstream classroom with an adult attached to you all day.

Aides are often treated like a panacea but they really are not--they are not skilled instructors, and kids can develop learned helplessness and dependence on them and it can be socially isolating because other kids are going to be hesitant to approach and include another child in play who comes with an adult always tagging along (though aggressive behavior may be creating some of this dynamic already, unfortunately). The goal is to have your DS develop the skills to independently manage his behavior and emotions, not displace the responsibility onto an adult. A 1:1 could be a good short term solution, like if you are waiting for a good point to transfer him to an SESES program where he will be taught these skills, but it's a band-aid and not a cure.

Diener definitely has kids with some pretty big social-emotional issues. I don't know about throwing things and eloping, but if you can get that under control, you might be able to make the case.

Anonymous wrote:OP here again - thanks for this last message. It's helpful. Yes he's in a traditional mainstream classroom, and yes we are considering the the SESES program. Unfortunately the closest SESES school to us doesn't have any openings and is understaffed, and the next closest one requires a long bus ride which DS would likely not be willing to do. From what I've read a one on one aid is a good next step. I don't understand why that would be restrictive, in fact I thought it would be the opposite (i.e. when DS needs a break from the noise in the classroom the aid would be able to walk him around a bit instead of having him elope on his own). Have others seen one on one aids be overly restrictive? Thanks for all the feedback. This is so new to us.

It's not that 1:1 aides *are* necessarily restrictive, it's that school systems consider them restrictive, so they use LRE as an excuse to send kids to self-contained classrooms instead of providing (more expensive) aides. Since they would be sending your child far away, which is itself more restrictive, you have a good argument for trying the aide. But you may be more successful with an advocate.

They don’t want to pay for 1:1 aides.

OP here again - thanks for this last message. It's helpful. Yes he's in a traditional mainstream classroom, and yes we are considering the the SESES program. Unfortunately the closest SESES school to us doesn't have any openings and is understaffed, and the next closest one requires a long bus ride which DS would likely not be willing to do. From what I've read a one on one aid is a good next step. I don't understand why that would be restrictive, in fact I thought it would be the opposite (i.e. when DS needs a break from the noise in the classroom the aid would be able to walk him around a bit instead of having him elope on his own). Have others seen one on one aids be overly restrictive? Thanks for all the feedback. This is so new to us.