+1. And time and again MCPS leadership seems so baffled that they're not getting the student demographics they are looking for participating in these immersion programs. It's really only workable with a SAHP or if happen to live close to the school where your kid was accepted. The dual-immersion programs sound great and were we house hunting now we'd target somewhere in one of those, but it's a shame that there's such a disparity between the experience in immersion/dual immersion and kids that get no foreign language instruction at all until MS. I'd be curious to know what they are doing at Highland as a less-resource intensive option. Kids are such sponges for learning languages when they are younger and it's a shame more effort isn't putting into language instruction at the ES level.

I'm not sure from this comment whether you know that bussing is provided for immersion programs. Now, you might decide the bus ride doesn't work for your kid or your family, but it's there. So, I put my immersion kid in before-care at our home school, they put him on the bus to the immersion program and then take him off the bus at the end of the day. From my perspective as a WOH single parent, it's exactly the same as having him at our home school.

I think some folks on this thread need to understand that the issues with hiring bilingual teachers do NOT include that:

1. None of the Hispanic people in Montgomery County speak English well enough; OR
2. All the Hispanic people are illiterate/uneducated and can't deal with the documentation requirements.

There are absolutely many highly educated, fully bilingual people in Montgomery County. The difficulty is attracting those people to teaching. There are also many fully bilingual people in Montgomery County that are not as highly educated or may have foreign credentials that can't be used here, and I just wonder how much of an effort the County is putting into giving those people help in getting the education to be able to do these jobs, if indeed it is a priority to hire bilingual teachers.

Im a fully bilingual Hispanic woman, and this is what I’ve heard from my friends as well, we used our bilingual talents in different fields and not education. There are only a handful of jobs for bilingual teachers in the county anyway so it would’ve been too competitive. Maybe if I were to go back for a second degree. Or would I have to have a degree in Spanish and English to teach? It’s really muddy and not easy to navigate what they want.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Immersion programs were never a real option for most families. Even if we won the lottery, as downtown commuters, we weren’t able to handle the transportation logistics. Many families couldn’t, especially those without cars.

It's super lame that immersion programs at a handful of schools are the only option for most kids for a foreign language before 6th grade. I don't think before/after school counts, since it's not during actual school hours and there's a difference between that and an academic subject (not on report card, presumably no recognition or continuation in MS etc). Is it really that hard to find Spanish teachers? (I'm not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely curious.)

+1. And time and again MCPS leadership seems so baffled that they're not getting the student demographics they are looking for participating in these immersion programs. It's really only workable with a SAHP or if happen to live close to the school where your kid was accepted. The dual-immersion programs sound great and were we house hunting now we'd target somewhere in one of those, but it's a shame that there's such a disparity between the experience in immersion/dual immersion and kids that get no foreign language instruction at all until MS. I'd be curious to know what they are doing at Highland as a less-resource intensive option. Kids are such sponges for learning languages when they are younger and it's a shame more effort isn't putting into language instruction at the ES level.

I know Kemp Mill ES has the two-way immersion in all grades. Most of the local students go to private school so they bus in students from other surrounding areas, mainly native Spanish speakers.

Actually, some families zoned for KMES don't want the language immersion (native English speakers) so they try to get a COSA to a different school but are not always successful. Seems there should be an English only class for those who don't want to learn a foreign language at that time. This situation is hard on many students with disabilities where learning in their native language is difficult enough.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Whether you realize it or not there are tons of fully bilingual Hispanic people in this county but many don't have the money to get the credentials. Are those credentials important? Sure. But know that part of the reason your child can't learn Spanish is because our society exploits and oppresses Hispanic people.

Just to clarify, you are okay having your child taught by an un-credentialed teacher because they are Hispanic and get a pass on meeting qualifications.

Where did you see that in what I said? I said credentials are important. Clearly this is triggering for you.

Anonymous wrote:
Whether you realize it or not there are tons of fully bilingual Hispanic people in this county but many don't have the money to get the credentials. Are those credentials important? Sure. But know that part of the reason your child can't learn Spanish is because our society exploits and oppresses Hispanic people.

Just to clarify, you are okay having your child taught by an un-credentialed teacher because they are Hispanic and get a pass on meeting qualifications.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Immersion programs were never a real option for most families. Even if we won the lottery, as downtown commuters, we weren’t able to handle the transportation logistics. Many families couldn’t, especially those without cars.

It's super lame that immersion programs at a handful of schools are the only option for most kids for a foreign language before 6th grade. I don't think before/after school counts, since it's not during actual school hours and there's a difference between that and an academic subject (not on report card, presumably no recognition or continuation in MS etc). Is it really that hard to find Spanish teachers? (I'm not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely curious.)

I know a few fully bilingual Latina women interested in teaching through my family and daycare and it seems like it's quite difficult for them to get teaching jobs in MCPS. They've ended up in other lower paying roles (e.g. private school teacher/paraeducator), not deeply familiar with their credentials and I'm sure it has to do with them having the wrong degrees, but it goes to show that just because you have a large Latino population if there are too many barriers to them getting the necessary credentials then you won't get as many Spanish-speaking teachers as you'd like.

I think part of the challenge is that bilingual teachers still need to be able to teach. Spanish skills are necessary but not sufficient, and they still need to be able to deal with school business (relationships with admin, filling out IEP forms, other tracking) in English. So you get a lot of teachers coming in from places that are fully bilingual and/or US territories.

Whether you realize it or not there are tons of fully bilingual Hispanic people in this county but many don't have the money to get the credentials. Are those credentials important? Sure. But know that part of the reason your child can't learn Spanish is because our society exploits and oppresses Hispanic people.

I think all of the above can be true. Systemic bias and economic exploitation are a constraining factor for many Hispanic people, particularly recent arrivals. ALSO, having credentials and regulations about who is allowed to teach in our public schools is a good thing.

For what it is worth, MCPS actively recruits teachers of color in a way that most districts do not. It is one of those initiatives that people snark about on DCUM but it's actually very worthwhile when it comes to ensuring a diverse pool of teachers. https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/press/index.aspx?page=showrelease&id=8233

I just said that

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Immersion programs were never a real option for most families. Even if we won the lottery, as downtown commuters, we weren’t able to handle the transportation logistics. Many families couldn’t, especially those without cars.

It's super lame that immersion programs at a handful of schools are the only option for most kids for a foreign language before 6th grade. I don't think before/after school counts, since it's not during actual school hours and there's a difference between that and an academic subject (not on report card, presumably no recognition or continuation in MS etc). Is it really that hard to find Spanish teachers? (I'm not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely curious.)

I know a few fully bilingual Latina women interested in teaching through my family and daycare and it seems like it's quite difficult for them to get teaching jobs in MCPS. They've ended up in other lower paying roles (e.g. private school teacher/paraeducator), not deeply familiar with their credentials and I'm sure it has to do with them having the wrong degrees, but it goes to show that just because you have a large Latino population if there are too many barriers to them getting the necessary credentials then you won't get as many Spanish-speaking teachers as you'd like.

I think part of the challenge is that bilingual teachers still need to be able to teach. Spanish skills are necessary but not sufficient, and they still need to be able to deal with school business (relationships with admin, filling out IEP forms, other tracking) in English. So you get a lot of teachers coming in from places that are fully bilingual and/or US territories.

Whether you realize it or not there are tons of fully bilingual Hispanic people in this county but many don't have the money to get the credentials. Are those credentials important? Sure. But know that part of the reason your child can't learn Spanish is because our society exploits and oppresses Hispanic people.

I think all of the above can be true. Systemic bias and economic exploitation are a constraining factor for many Hispanic people, particularly recent arrivals. ALSO, having credentials and regulations about who is allowed to teach in our public schools is a good thing.

For what it is worth, MCPS actively recruits teachers of color in a way that most districts do not. It is one of those initiatives that people snark about on DCUM but it's actually very worthwhile when it comes to ensuring a diverse pool of teachers. https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/press/index.aspx?page=showrelease&id=8233

College Gardens ES used to offer Chinese as once a week "special" when DC was there. It was not graded and more like a cultural exploration than language study. They have to offer second language because they are an IB school. Not sure if language offering will change in the future.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Immersion programs were never a real option for most families. Even if we won the lottery, as downtown commuters, we weren’t able to handle the transportation logistics. Many families couldn’t, especially those without cars.

It's super lame that immersion programs at a handful of schools are the only option for most kids for a foreign language before 6th grade. I don't think before/after school counts, since it's not during actual school hours and there's a difference between that and an academic subject (not on report card, presumably no recognition or continuation in MS etc). Is it really that hard to find Spanish teachers? (I'm not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely curious.)

I know a few fully bilingual Latina women interested in teaching through my family and daycare and it seems like it's quite difficult for them to get teaching jobs in MCPS. They've ended up in other lower paying roles (e.g. private school teacher/paraeducator), not deeply familiar with their credentials and I'm sure it has to do with them having the wrong degrees, but it goes to show that just because you have a large Latino population if there are too many barriers to them getting the necessary credentials then you won't get as many Spanish-speaking teachers as you'd like.

I think part of the challenge is that bilingual teachers still need to be able to teach. Spanish skills are necessary but not sufficient, and they still need to be able to deal with school business (relationships with admin, filling out IEP forms, other tracking) in English. So you get a lot of teachers coming in from places that are fully bilingual and/or US territories.

Whether you realize it or not there are tons of fully bilingual Hispanic people in this county but many don't have the money to get the credentials. Are those credentials important? Sure. But know that part of the reason your child can't learn Spanish is because our society exploits and oppresses Hispanic people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Generally, MCPS is stuck in the 1970s-80s as far as foreign language learning goes.

Not the OP, but I've definitely thought the same. Such a waste for a supposedly progressive district! Instead of wasting time with Ibram Kendi, it would be much more helpful to teach Spanish in ES.

Yep. But it is clear that MCPS is more interested in pushing a political agenda on our kids than actually providing a solid education.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Immersion programs were never a real option for most families. Even if we won the lottery, as downtown commuters, we weren’t able to handle the transportation logistics. Many families couldn’t, especially those without cars.

It's super lame that immersion programs at a handful of schools are the only option for most kids for a foreign language before 6th grade. I don't think before/after school counts, since it's not during actual school hours and there's a difference between that and an academic subject (not on report card, presumably no recognition or continuation in MS etc). Is it really that hard to find Spanish teachers? (I'm not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely curious.)

I know a few fully bilingual Latina women interested in teaching through my family and daycare and it seems like it's quite difficult for them to get teaching jobs in MCPS. They've ended up in other lower paying roles (e.g. private school teacher/paraeducator), not deeply familiar with their credentials and I'm sure it has to do with them having the wrong degrees, but it goes to show that just because you have a large Latino population if there are too many barriers to them getting the necessary credentials then you won't get as many Spanish-speaking teachers as you'd like.

I think part of the challenge is that bilingual teachers still need to be able to teach. Spanish skills are necessary but not sufficient, and they still need to be able to deal with school business (relationships with admin, filling out IEP forms, other tracking) in English. So you get a lot of teachers coming in from places that are fully bilingual and/or US territories.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Immersion programs were never a real option for most families. Even if we won the lottery, as downtown commuters, we weren’t able to handle the transportation logistics. Many families couldn’t, especially those without cars.

It's super lame that immersion programs at a handful of schools are the only option for most kids for a foreign language before 6th grade. I don't think before/after school counts, since it's not during actual school hours and there's a difference between that and an academic subject (not on report card, presumably no recognition or continuation in MS etc). Is it really that hard to find Spanish teachers? (I'm not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely curious.)

As the OTES parent above, yes, it is hard to find teachers fluent in Spanish who also speak sufficient English and who meet the other requirements to be a teacher in MCPS, which are substantial. I'm deeply grateful for the bilingual teachers we have and that the program ended up at our home school. If second language instruction is important to you, it's worth looking in bounds for one of these schools.

Anonymous wrote:Immersion programs were never a real option for most families. Even if we won the lottery, as downtown commuters, we weren’t able to handle the transportation logistics. Many families couldn’t, especially those without cars.

We live in Olney and would have loved to put our kids in the Spanish immersion but it was not realistic given the transportation issues. I don’t think the immersion program is spread out enough throughout the county because many areas are ignored.