Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can’t tell you without context. I wouldn’t write return to sender.

If it’s normal disagreement. Like covid. No this is crazy to throw in the trash. Some people don’t know how to reach out. Again I have no idea why he is estranged.


I agree with the persons that children can have relationships with their aunts/uncles despite disagreements. When my moms fights with her sister, my relationship is unaffected. They fight about money because of my grandmothers estate but everyone truly loves each other.

You don't understand that estrangement is not about normal fights. It's about abusive behavior like years of gaslighting, emotional abuse and manipulation. You do not accept gifts from someone like that. The people who trivialize estrangement are either people who cannot fathom what it is to have an abusive family member or they cannot under why people in their own family have estranged from them despite repeated messages over many years that things were unhealthy.

If you have gotten to the point of estrangement, you intercept and protect your children. Children should not have their own relationship with people who are deranged.

Are you the OP? If not, you are making a lot of assumptions that aren’t supported by the minimal information that the OP has provided.

Here’s another viewpoint, based in part on my family experiences. A somewhat paranoid and exacting family member repeatedly and characteristically alienated numerous people, from family members to people in local businesses. He would then issue edicts that: No one in the family should have any contact with anyone that he had deemed problematic— based on his own, idiosyncratic reasoning. This made quite a few things difficult for his family members, including being unable to build their own close, positive relationships with extended family members.

I put this out there, PP, because the scenario that I described fits the few details that have been described at least as well as your version, which is projecting quite a lot onto the minimal information that the OP shared.

So, again, context is important— and the OP has provided very little.

NP and I agree that more info is needed, because even these couple of examples show that circumstances can vary and that can make a big difference.

In my own case, I am now estranged from my SIL who I once considered a sister and can't imagine ever rebuilding a friendship after what happened between us. On the other hand, my relationship with her doesn't have to be my kids' relationship with her. As an aunt she's stable and fine, but I realize this might not be the case in all families.

While a mature perspective, tread lightly with your assumption she’s a great aunt. My mom was estranged from her mom - my grandmother - and still permitted my grandmother to have contact with us kids over the years. In time my grandmother became increasingly abusive and toxic toward us and the same elements of her personality that led to her estrangement from my mom reared their head for us grandkids. Because my mom wasn’t present in our interactions it meant we were particularly vulnerable to my grandmother’s manipulations and nastiness.

I know you’re trying to do the right thing. But there’s a reason your estranged from this person, they did something harmful. Don’t assume they’d be any different with your kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since you don’t mention the reasons behind the estrangement, I give the BIL credit for making an effort to maintain some type of positive relationship with the kids — who did not have any input in any decisions to end their relationships with their uncle.

Kids are more than little extensions of their parents. You also don’t mention the ages of the kids, so I’ll use my imagination. Why should a 9 year old, who loves his uncle, aunt, and cousins, lose what could be lifelong positive relationships because his Dad and his uncle have a vehement disagreement about the tax code? I would let the kids have the gifts and send thank you notes — unless they, themselves, have issues with their uncle — unless the reasons for the estrangement are truly egregious.

What kids need most is a healthy immediate family unit and friends. It's bonus points if they have healthy extended family relationships, but not as crucial to their well-being as a healthy immediate unit. It is not the place of the uncle or anyone to overstep parental boundaries and gifts are not love. Yes, kids are not extensions of parents, but they are part of a family unit that needs to be respected. I would not have to kids get entangled by playing into the manipulations and sending than yous. I would let them know the relationship is not healthy and we are having space from uncle Narc for a while.

But what if it’s the father who is “unhealthy”? I’m not sure why you created “uncle Narc” — but all we know is that the two brothers are estranged. Maybe you have the right take on this. Or maybe Dad is batshit crazy, and the uncle is trying to do what he can to be a positive presence in the kids’ lives. From the information presented, we — or at least I — really don’t know.

This may be true and it takes two to tango, but the uncle is overstepping boundaries by sending gifts to the kids. It’s manipulative and invasive, particularly given that gifts alone don’t make for a “healthy relationship”. No.

Your DH is strange/a bad communicator/bad at establishing firm boundaries when it sound like he needs to.

It makes no sense that previous money was kept without responding- no matter what your stated plans to donate- that have never materialized.

Months go by and NOW he wants to send something back? He may as well write a letter if he can't communicate over the phone and simply advise the last several packages were donated and that he doesn't want further contact.

-no idea who the abuser/toxic one is in this relationship, but OP your DH needs to do better.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can’t tell you without context. I wouldn’t write return to sender.

If it’s normal disagreement. Like covid. No this is crazy to throw in the trash. Some people don’t know how to reach out. Again I have no idea why he is estranged.


I agree with the persons that children can have relationships with their aunts/uncles despite disagreements. When my moms fights with her sister, my relationship is unaffected. They fight about money because of my grandmothers estate but everyone truly loves each other.

You don't understand that estrangement is not about normal fights. It's about abusive behavior like years of gaslighting, emotional abuse and manipulation. You do not accept gifts from someone like that. The people who trivialize estrangement are either people who cannot fathom what it is to have an abusive family member or they cannot under why people in their own family have estranged from them despite repeated messages over many years that things were unhealthy.

If you have gotten to the point of estrangement, you intercept and protect your children. Children should not have their own relationship with people who are deranged.

Are you the OP? If not, you are making a lot of assumptions that aren’t supported by the minimal information that the OP has provided.

Here’s another viewpoint, based in part on my family experiences. A somewhat paranoid and exacting family member repeatedly and characteristically alienated numerous people, from family members to people in local businesses. He would then issue edicts that: No one in the family should have any contact with anyone that he had deemed problematic— based on his own, idiosyncratic reasoning. This made quite a few things difficult for his family members, including being unable to build their own close, positive relationships with extended family members.

I put this out there, PP, because the scenario that I described fits the few details that have been described at least as well as your version, which is projecting quite a lot onto the minimal information that the OP shared.

So, again, context is important— and the OP has provided very little.

NP and I agree that more info is needed, because even these couple of examples show that circumstances can vary and that can make a big difference.

In my own case, I am now estranged from my SIL who I once considered a sister and can't imagine ever rebuilding a friendship after what happened between us. On the other hand, my relationship with her doesn't have to be my kids' relationship with her. As an aunt she's stable and fine, but I realize this might not be the case in all families.

The Gifts aren't for YOU. the gifts are for your children from their uncle.

now its possible that you have a very good reason for not liking/talking to your brother.

explain to your children why you don't like their uncle.

its possible for them to have a healthy relationship with their uncle (unless hes a molester or otherwise abusive) even though you don't like him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can’t tell you without context. I wouldn’t write return to sender.

If it’s normal disagreement. Like covid. No this is crazy to throw in the trash. Some people don’t know how to reach out. Again I have no idea why he is estranged.


I agree with the persons that children can have relationships with their aunts/uncles despite disagreements. When my moms fights with her sister, my relationship is unaffected. They fight about money because of my grandmothers estate but everyone truly loves each other.

You don't understand that estrangement is not about normal fights. It's about abusive behavior like years of gaslighting, emotional abuse and manipulation. You do not accept gifts from someone like that. The people who trivialize estrangement are either people who cannot fathom what it is to have an abusive family member or they cannot under why people in their own family have estranged from them despite repeated messages over many years that things were unhealthy.

If you have gotten to the point of estrangement, you intercept and protect your children. Children should not have their own relationship with people who are deranged.

Are you the OP? If not, you are making a lot of assumptions that aren’t supported by the minimal information that the OP has provided.

Here’s another viewpoint, based in part on my family experiences. A somewhat paranoid and exacting family member repeatedly and characteristically alienated numerous people, from family members to people in local businesses. He would then issue edicts that: No one in the family should have any contact with anyone that he had deemed problematic— based on his own, idiosyncratic reasoning. This made quite a few things difficult for his family members, including being unable to build their own close, positive relationships with extended family members.

I put this out there, PP, because the scenario that I described fits the few details that have been described at least as well as your version, which is projecting quite a lot onto the minimal information that the OP shared.

So, again, context is important— and the OP has provided very little.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can’t tell you without context. I wouldn’t write return to sender.

If it’s normal disagreement. Like covid. No this is crazy to throw in the trash. Some people don’t know how to reach out. Again I have no idea why he is estranged.


I agree with the persons that children can have relationships with their aunts/uncles despite disagreements. When my moms fights with her sister, my relationship is unaffected. They fight about money because of my grandmothers estate but everyone truly loves each other.

You don't understand that estrangement is not about normal fights. It's about abusive behavior like years of gaslighting, emotional abuse and manipulation. You do not accept gifts from someone like that. The people who trivialize estrangement are either people who cannot fathom what it is to have an abusive family member or they cannot under why people in their own family have estranged from them despite repeated messages over many years that things were unhealthy.

If you have gotten to the point of estrangement, you intercept and protect your children. Children should not have their own relationship with people who are deranged.

Are you the OP? If not, you are making a lot of assumptions that aren’t supported by the minimal information that the OP has provided.

If someone has made it clear they don't think it is healthy for them and their family to be around you right now, it is downright creepy to send gifts. Gifts are absolutely used as forms of manipulation. That's why most ethical jobs place limits on what you can accept if you can accept anything at all. A gift is a way to force interaction because you then have an excuse to find out if it was received. It also creates un-needed drama for the children. it's gross.

Anonymous wrote:Can’t tell you without context. I wouldn’t write return to sender.

If it’s normal disagreement. Like covid. No this is crazy to throw in the trash. Some people don’t know how to reach out. Again I have no idea why he is estranged.


I agree with the persons that children can have relationships with their aunts/uncles despite disagreements. When my moms fights with her sister, my relationship is unaffected. They fight about money because of my grandmothers estate but everyone truly loves each other.

You don't understand that estrangement is not about normal fights. It's about abusive behavior like years of gaslighting, emotional abuse and manipulation. You do not accept gifts from someone like that. The people who trivialize estrangement are either people who cannot fathom what it is to have an abusive family member or they cannot under why people in their own family have estranged from them despite repeated messages over many years that things were unhealthy.

If you have gotten to the point of estrangement, you intercept and protect your children. Children should not have their own relationship with people who are deranged.

Can’t tell you without context. I wouldn’t write return to sender.

If it’s normal disagreement. Like covid. No this is crazy to throw in the trash. Some people don’t know how to reach out. Again I have no idea why he is estranged.


I agree with the persons that children can have relationships with their aunts/uncles despite disagreements. When my moms fights with her sister, my relationship is unaffected. They fight about money because of my grandmothers estate but everyone truly loves each other.

Cards, letters, or packages from our estranged family members go straight into the trash without opening. I use the USPS informed delivery app to see when things are coming so I can intercept them.

DO NOT do “Return to Sender”. You are just looking for more trouble at that point. Use or donate (or get the courage to have a conversation with the person to understand if there is a genuine desire to mend the relationship.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since you don’t mention the reasons behind the estrangement, I give the BIL credit for making an effort to maintain some type of positive relationship with the kids — who did not have any input in any decisions to end their relationships with their uncle.

Kids are more than little extensions of their parents. You also don’t mention the ages of the kids, so I’ll use my imagination. Why should a 9 year old, who loves his uncle, aunt, and cousins, lose what could be lifelong positive relationships because his Dad and his uncle have a vehement disagreement about the tax code? I would let the kids have the gifts and send thank you notes — unless they, themselves, have issues with their uncle — unless the reasons for the estrangement are truly egregious.

What kids need most is a healthy immediate family unit and friends. It's bonus points if they have healthy extended family relationships, but not as crucial to their well-being as a healthy immediate unit. It is not the place of the uncle or anyone to overstep parental boundaries and gifts are not love. Yes, kids are not extensions of parents, but they are part of a family unit that needs to be respected. I would not have to kids get entangled by playing into the manipulations and sending than yous. I would let them know the relationship is not healthy and we are having space from uncle Narc for a while.

But what if it’s the father who is “unhealthy”? I’m not sure why you created “uncle Narc” — but all we know is that the two brothers are estranged. Maybe you have the right take on this. Or maybe Dad is batshit crazy, and the uncle is trying to do what he can to be a positive presence in the kids’ lives. From the information presented, we — or at least I — really don’t know.

Buying love is not the way to be a positive presence. Really when someone sets a boundary you just have to respect it. if you know there is abuse you get CPS involved, but otherwise leave it alone. Sending gifts adds un-needed drama/ Now, if the kids reach out to the uncle that is something else. They are pretty capable at an early age especially with everyone getting phones.

If you view all the gifts that you have ever given or received as “buying love”, I find that very sad.

We don’t know what the estrangement is about or how old the kids are. We also don’t know what the uncle’s relationship with the kids and OP prior to the estrangement with Dad. I also have absolutely no idea what the OP means by “the final nail” — and there are multiple ways that it could be interpreted. I do understand your point about “ Un-needed drama”, although without more information, I disagree. I will say though, that tightly closed family units with dramatic estrangements are concerning. Dad is actively estranged from a sibling, OP seems to be placating Dad. It could be a healthy family. It could also be a very unhealthy one. If so, I hope that the kids are at least old enough to be in school, where someone might notice if a CPS call were, indeed, indicated at some point.

Exactly contect is everything.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since you don’t mention the reasons behind the estrangement, I give the BIL credit for making an effort to maintain some type of positive relationship with the kids — who did not have any input in any decisions to end their relationships with their uncle.

Kids are more than little extensions of their parents. You also don’t mention the ages of the kids, so I’ll use my imagination. Why should a 9 year old, who loves his uncle, aunt, and cousins, lose what could be lifelong positive relationships because his Dad and his uncle have a vehement disagreement about the tax code? I would let the kids have the gifts and send thank you notes — unless they, themselves, have issues with their uncle — unless the reasons for the estrangement are truly egregious.

What kids need most is a healthy immediate family unit and friends. It's bonus points if they have healthy extended family relationships, but not as crucial to their well-being as a healthy immediate unit. It is not the place of the uncle or anyone to overstep parental boundaries and gifts are not love. Yes, kids are not extensions of parents, but they are part of a family unit that needs to be respected. I would not have to kids get entangled by playing into the manipulations and sending than yous. I would let them know the relationship is not healthy and we are having space from uncle Narc for a while.

But what if it’s the father who is “unhealthy”? I’m not sure why you created “uncle Narc” — but all we know is that the two brothers are estranged. Maybe you have the right take on this. Or maybe Dad is batshit crazy, and the uncle is trying to do what he can to be a positive presence in the kids’ lives. From the information presented, we — or at least I — really don’t know.

Buying love is not the way to be a positive presence. Really when someone sets a boundary you just have to respect it. if you know there is abuse you get CPS involved, but otherwise leave it alone. Sending gifts adds un-needed drama/ Now, if the kids reach out to the uncle that is something else. They are pretty capable at an early age especially with everyone getting phones.

Why would the kids reach out to the uncle when he suddenly ignores him? Wouldn't it be disrespecting a boundary to respond to the kids if they reached out to him? When mommy and daddy don't want that?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since you don’t mention the reasons behind the estrangement, I give the BIL credit for making an effort to maintain some type of positive relationship with the kids — who did not have any input in any decisions to end their relationships with their uncle.

Kids are more than little extensions of their parents. You also don’t mention the ages of the kids, so I’ll use my imagination. Why should a 9 year old, who loves his uncle, aunt, and cousins, lose what could be lifelong positive relationships because his Dad and his uncle have a vehement disagreement about the tax code? I would let the kids have the gifts and send thank you notes — unless they, themselves, have issues with their uncle — unless the reasons for the estrangement are truly egregious.

What kids need most is a healthy immediate family unit and friends. It's bonus points if they have healthy extended family relationships, but not as crucial to their well-being as a healthy immediate unit. It is not the place of the uncle or anyone to overstep parental boundaries and gifts are not love. Yes, kids are not extensions of parents, but they are part of a family unit that needs to be respected. I would not have to kids get entangled by playing into the manipulations and sending than yous. I would let them know the relationship is not healthy and we are having space from uncle Narc for a while.

But what if it’s the father who is “unhealthy”? I’m not sure why you created “uncle Narc” — but all we know is that the two brothers are estranged. Maybe you have the right take on this. Or maybe Dad is batshit crazy, and the uncle is trying to do what he can to be a positive presence in the kids’ lives. From the information presented, we — or at least I — really don’t know.

Buying love is not the way to be a positive presence. Really when someone sets a boundary you just have to respect it. if you know there is abuse you get CPS involved, but otherwise leave it alone. Sending gifts adds un-needed drama/ Now, if the kids reach out to the uncle that is something else. They are pretty capable at an early age especially with everyone getting phones.

If you view all the gifts that you have ever given or received as “buying love”, I find that very sad.

We don’t know what the estrangement is about or how old the kids are. We also don’t know what the uncle’s relationship with the kids and OP prior to the estrangement with Dad. I also have absolutely no idea what the OP means by “the final nail” — and there are multiple ways that it could be interpreted. I do understand your point about “ Un-needed drama”, although without more information, I disagree. I will say though, that tightly closed family units with dramatic estrangements are concerning. Dad is actively estranged from a sibling, OP seems to be placating Dad. It could be a healthy family. It could also be a very unhealthy one. If so, I hope that the kids are at least old enough to be in school, where someone might notice if a CPS call were, indeed, indicated at some point.