Drawing takes place at a table. If you get up from the table with the drawing stuff, then it all gets put away.

I am Asian, and it’s funny to me that Americans/Europeans are so strict with their toddlers but so lax with their teenagers! Asians are generally the opposite.

I have a 4yo who occasionally draws on the walls at home and I laugh and turn a blind eye because we can easily erase it and were planning to paint the walls in a few years anyway. I would never allow my child to draw on the walls at someone else’s home though (and she’s never shown any inclination to).

I save my scary voice for more important things like consistent rudeness (a problem I have noticed with American/European children) and safety issues.

Maybe she didn’t want to yell at her kid in front of you? Maybe the kid got his ass handed to him in the ride home? At 4 years old kids can understand things in the past and you don’t have to do it in the moment like with an 18 month old.

I'm not a disciplinarian at all but I definitely intervened early and strongly when my kid started writing/drawing on anything other than a piece of paper. She has never drawn on a wall but that's because we never let it get that far. When her drawing on a table started getting messy (so crayons/markers/etc getting onto the table surface, or walking around with a marker and getting ink on fabrics, etc.) I gently explained that we have to be thoughtful with drawing materials. I started training her to clean up her drawing space at 2, using a small spray bottle and a little towel. Of course she was not good at it at 2 and I did 99% of the actual cleaning. But this helped her learn that getting ink or pencil marks on other things meant having to clean up, and eventually she just got better at staying more tidy.

Now if she makes a mess she cleans it up herself or lets me know so we can clean it up together. She'd never just go draw on a wall because it's very ingrained in her that art goes on paper, or her easel, or a designated place, not on walls or furniture. I remember one time a few months ago when she was drawing in her room (she has a little art table in there and a cart with supplies that I trust her with) and she got a small bit of marker on her bedspread. She'd been drawing one of her stuffed animals and had moved from the table to the bed to get a better angle or something. She came and told me, apologized, and asked if I could help her fix the bedspread. She's 4. I think it's because I've balanced trusting her with this responsibility with lots of guidance on how to handle it.

So I wouldn't yell or admonish my kid if she drew on a wall at a friend's house, but I also wouldn't say nothing to her. I'd sit down and talk through what made her decide to do that, and explain why that was inappropriate and really inconvenient for our friend. I might not do all of this at the friend's house, though -- would depend on the situation. But yes, I'd do something. It just wouldn't necessarily be the kind of harsh discipline that some people might want or expect because I don't think that's the most effective way to teach children.

Anonymous wrote:A kid young enough to draw on the walls is young enough to need immediate correction. I also do big scary voice for important stuff, and consider drawing on the walls important. Same reaction as if a kid were stepping into the street or flooding the bathroom. You just absolutely do not do that.

Stepping out into the street is not the same! Safety issues are way more important.

My kids wouldn’t DREAM of writing on a wall. Especially not the wall of someone ELSE!

Never say never.

A kid young enough to draw on the walls is young enough to need immediate correction. I also do big scary voice for important stuff, and consider drawing on the walls important. Same reaction as if a kid were stepping into the street or flooding the bathroom. You just absolutely do not do that.

My kids are older now (high school and college) but I don't recall them ever writing on walls. I'm pretty sure I did as a child and I know my brother did. My mom gave him some rags and made him clean it off himself.

When my oldest was a toddler, a friend of mine with a son the same age encouraged her kid to draw on a wall. She had a specific wall in her house and literally handed her kid (and mine, when we were there) crayons to draw on it. FWIW, she didn't own the house (base housing.)
I just encouraged my son to play with something else at the time because I didn't want him getting in the habit of drawing on walls.

My 2.5 year old might experiment with that (she did experiment with writing on a sofa the other day) but would quickly learn that crayons stay on paper or go away. No anger or yelling, just loss of writing tool.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think either of you do a perfect job with this.

You are keeping them in line with fear and shame. Your friend isn’t keeping them in line at all.

I think ideally you would say “drawing on walls isn’t okay because it damages homes and takes a lot of work to fix. I know it’s tempting sometimes but I expect you to control yourself. You can draw on paper and hang it up on the walls. If you draw on the walls you will need to erase it or paint over it, and you will lose drawing privileges and if you do it at a friend’s house it will be a while before you will be allowed to go to a friend’s house.”

That’s what I have done. I don’t know, parenting is hard. Your friend has good intentions and is probably trying to avoid shame-based parenting but it’s too permissive.

Op here, that would have sounded quite perfect to me. Very good points. Not that it is what I would have naturally implemented myself, you are correct that I am too much in the shame based parenting. I am trying to wrap my head around an acceptable alternative for me. I don’t use fear and shame for everything at all, but some behaviors still make me revert to that more traditional disciplinarian option. And i do feel conflicted about it.

It is so hard! Sometimes I think about it this way: I treat my kids like adults, in that if I was a boss or a manager I wouldn’t just say “oh try to do better next time” but I also would try to avoid using fear or shame. Let them know what I expect from them and why and that they didn’t meet them, but keep in mind how I want them to feel about themselves and that it’s important to maintain a good relationship.

There are some good parenting books about this and I can give you recommendations if you’re interested.

But I do share your surprise that the mom didn’t offer the kid a chance to make things right. That she just let you deal with the wall is not cool.

Was it a drop off playdate? Maybe the friend thought you already disciplined the child?

I have special needs kids and I warn people not to leave writing implements out

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I gently correct my kids, I don’t make a scene at other people house. Performance parenting is annoying.

You sound over the top for a normal childhood issue.

OP here, that’s exactly how some of my American friends make me feel. And back home I would totally quote you to explain the difference in parenting “gently correcting” your child, calling writing on other peoples home “normal issue” when we would see this as a sign the child is out of control and not properly disciplined at home. I say that last part without judgment, when I go back home I now find the discipline too strict. I guess I am navigating somewhere in the middle right now.

DP here, I think you are conflating two issues. First, that the child drew on your wall means the child is poorly disciplined. I tend to agree with you, but kids do mess up and four is very young.
Second, that the parent did not chastise the child in front of you. There, I think you are wrong. In your OP you seem to be bothered that the mom didn't scold her kid enough, and multiple PPs have said that even if they might yell or punish at home they won't do it at your house. That's less of a discipline issue than a social manners issue. I don't think you can conclude much about at-home parenting from your friend's response in your home.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think either of you do a perfect job with this.

You are keeping them in line with fear and shame. Your friend isn’t keeping them in line at all.

I think ideally you would say “drawing on walls isn’t okay because it damages homes and takes a lot of work to fix. I know it’s tempting sometimes but I expect you to control yourself. You can draw on paper and hang it up on the walls. If you draw on the walls you will need to erase it or paint over it, and you will lose drawing privileges and if you do it at a friend’s house it will be a while before you will be allowed to go to a friend’s house.”

That’s what I have done. I don’t know, parenting is hard. Your friend has good intentions and is probably trying to avoid shame-based parenting but it’s too permissive.

Op here, that would have sounded quite perfect to me. Very good points. Not that it is what I would have naturally implemented myself, you are correct that I am too much in the shame based parenting. I am trying to wrap my head around an acceptable alternative for me. I don’t use fear and shame for everything at all, but some behaviors still make me revert to that more traditional disciplinarian option. And i do feel conflicted about it.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think either of you do a perfect job with this.

You are keeping them in line with fear and shame. Your friend isn’t keeping them in line at all.

I think ideally you would say “drawing on walls isn’t okay because it damages homes and takes a lot of work to fix. I know it’s tempting sometimes but I expect you to control yourself. You can draw on paper and hang it up on the walls. If you draw on the walls you will need to erase it or paint over it, and you will lose drawing privileges and if you do it at a friend’s house it will be a while before you will be allowed to go to a friend’s house.”

That’s what I have done. I don’t know, parenting is hard. Your friend has good intentions and is probably trying to avoid shame-based parenting but it’s too permissive.

Oh and I would *not* say this in front of you. I would have explained gently exactly why it wasn’t okay and like a PP I would have had them try to clean it off and offered to paint over if that didn’t work.

And kids are always going to screw up. At your house or at another house. You can’t expect perfection of them.