Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m going to take the other side as a number of PPs. If DC wants to go to a strong research university (that is, a university with highly ranked graduate study programs) it is really hard to beat the UC system.

In addition to Cal and UCLA, UCSD and UCI are very strong in life sciences, math, CS. I would rank almost all programs from there above the same programs from UIUC, UMich, and UVa. (CS at UIUC an exception to that).

Nobody's saying the UC options are bad for grad school. Everybody (from CA) is saying they make sense for OOS undergrad only in the rarest of circumstances.

PP here. You misread my post.

There is a group of students who have specific professional ambitions, usually related to competitive jobs in Big Tech, finance, or consulting, or graduate study in quantitative fields or medicine, for whom exposure to graduate level coursework in their major is a critical boost.

Because UsNwR type lists do not break down educational quality and reputation by department, the best proxy is to look at professional society rank in field of interest.

You're just trying to oppositional while offering nothing of value. Go, ahead, send your kid to Irvine with hopes the finance or consulting gig at the end will make the OOS tuition worth it. Good luck with that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are very expensive from OOS and overcrowded so it's extremely common to take 5 years to graduate so you have to factor that into the cost too. I'm from CA and don't understand why someone would want to go there from OOS. Grad school at Cal or UCLA, sure. But waste of money for undergrad IMO.

Approximately 33% of UC students are community college transfers. So a third of your classmates for 4 yrs - or 5 - will be CC transfers. I don’t see the appeal when you are paying OOS tuition that rivals the price of Ivy schools.

Yeah, god forbid you have to call someone who went to community college your peer.

If you want your kids to hang with CC students, send your kids to your local CC. Save $60,000/yr.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are very expensive from OOS and overcrowded so it's extremely common to take 5 years to graduate so you have to factor that into the cost too. I'm from CA and don't understand why someone would want to go there from OOS. Grad school at Cal or UCLA, sure. But waste of money for undergrad IMO.

Approximately 33% of UC students are community college transfers. So a third of your classmates for 4 yrs - or 5 - will be CC transfers. I don’t see the appeal when you are paying OOS tuition that rivals the price of Ivy schools.

Yeah, god forbid you have to call someone who went to community college your peer.

33% CC transfers.
Translation: UC schools are overrated.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are very expensive from OOS and overcrowded so it's extremely common to take 5 years to graduate so you have to factor that into the cost too. I'm from CA and don't understand why someone would want to go there from OOS. Grad school at Cal or UCLA, sure. But waste of money for undergrad IMO.

Approximately 33% of UC students are community college transfers. So a third of your classmates for 4 yrs - or 5 - will be CC transfers. I don’t see the appeal when you are paying OOS tuition that rivals the price of Ivy schools.

Yeah, god forbid you have to call someone who went to community college your peer.

Anonymous wrote:They are very expensive from OOS and overcrowded so it's extremely common to take 5 years to graduate so you have to factor that into the cost too. I'm from CA and don't understand why someone would want to go there from OOS. Grad school at Cal or UCLA, sure. But waste of money for undergrad IMO.

Approximately 33% of UC students are community college transfers. So a third of your classmates for 4 yrs - or 5 - will be CC transfers. I don’t see the appeal when you are paying OOS tuition that rivals the price of Ivy schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m going to take the other side as a number of PPs. If DC wants to go to a strong research university (that is, a university with highly ranked graduate study programs) it is really hard to beat the UC system.

In addition to Cal and UCLA, UCSD and UCI are very strong in life sciences, math, CS. I would rank almost all programs from there above the same programs from UIUC, UMich, and UVa. (CS at UIUC an exception to that).

Nobody's saying the UC options are bad for grad school. Everybody (from CA) is saying they make sense for OOS undergrad only in the rarest of circumstances.

PP here. You misread my post.

There is a group of students who have specific professional ambitions, usually related to competitive jobs in Big Tech, finance, or consulting, or graduate study in quantitative fields or medicine, for whom exposure to graduate level coursework in their major is a critical boost.

Because UsNwR type lists do not break down educational quality and reputation by department, the best proxy is to look at professional society rank in field of interest.

The 4-year graduation rate for undergrads at UCLA is about 80%. This does not sound like it is unlikely to graduate in 4 years, nor is it much different from UVA which is around 85%

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I graduated UC Davis and I agree with most of the PPs. I loved it there, but it's not a good value for out of state. I did know some students from Hawaii, but most students were from CA.

Most of the lower division required classes are in huge lecture halls and you don't get much personal attention.

yep, weeds out those who can't hack it and need a lot of handholding.

Don't be stupid.

In 2020, around 12% of the undergrads at Cal and UCLA were OOS students, 6% at UCSD and UCSB, and 3% at UCI and UCD.

Anonymous wrote:UCs and CSUs do not require test scores anymore and CSUs don’t even require an essay as a part of the application process. They are turning into a community college system for students of poorly run school system and Covid is accelerating their downward trajectory. Definitely not worth the money.

NP. I’m another Californian, and I agree! I would NOT attend a UC from out of state. They’re good choices for instate kids, but their national reputations are vastly overrated.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi all, I am helping a family friend on his college applications (the duties of a first-gen immigrant college grad lol). I was researching rankings and was shocked to see that 6 of the top 10 public universities are UCs. When I was applying to college (in 2016) in VA, it was normal for kids to apply to Cal, UCLA, Michigan, Wisconsin, UIUC, but never heard of anyone applying going to UC Davis or Irvine. Is it common for kids from out of state to attend UCs? Obviously, everyone knows Berkeley and LA, but are UCSD/UCI, etc underrated?

Eh, I think they're overrated as far as value for out of state students. But, if the family can afford the out of state cost, and prefers the overcrowded UCs to privates, it's their money.

OP, please make it clear to the friend that they cannot expect any financial aid from the UCs. They'll cost $65k at least. First gen kids might not know this and make the mistake of wasting app fees on unaffordable schools. Point them toward the Net Price Calculators that each college has to estimate aid.

+1

OP, can the family friend afford UCs out of state?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are very expensive from OOS and overcrowded so it's extremely common to take 5 years to graduate so you have to factor that into the cost too. I'm from CA and don't understand why someone would want to go there from OOS. Grad school at Cal or UCLA, sure. But waste of money for undergrad IMO.

Also from CA and generally agree with this. I think UCSC and Cal Poly SLO (not UC, but a state school) offer unique experiences that could make OOS worth it for certain kids. Maybe also UCSD for a kid dead set on a biotech career. But a kid who can get into Berkeley OOS and wants to study econ or whatever surely also would be admitted to strong privates offering a much better undergraduate experience for around the same $$. And UCLA, UCSB, or the rest? C'mon.

As a native Californian and UCLA grad I also agree. Not worth the money for undergrad OOS, as the PP's have said classes are impacted and graduating in 4 years is almost impossible to do. Both of my nieces are minimum 5 years, one at UCLA the other at Cal...they simply don't have the capacity to meet all of the specific needs.

Generally probably true but as a caveat: UCSB Center for Creative Studies (CCS) is lauded as “a post grad program for undergraduates”. Only approx 350 of the 26 k UCSB students are in CCS. They are accorded privileges and supports such as getting first dabs at course enrollment including post grad courses, being mentored by experts in their field of study, and being allowed to take accelerated classes in their disciplines. It’s small size, student privileges and grading system are designed to encourage self motivated students to accomplish original work as undergraduates. It is not for everyone but it is for top students who are committed to one of the nine disciplines. Most of them end up in top tier post grad programs. DC would not have attended UCSB unless also admitted to CCS. It was a wonderful and unique undergrad experience surrounded by the Pacific on three sides.

However, we probably would not have paid the hefty OOS tuition for the general UCSB College of Letters and Science even though it provides a top notch education in many different fields. (#5 for public schools, #1 for green schools for those who care, 10 national institutes and centers with many research ops, Leiden ranked it #2 in world for science research impact, and more).

Less than 5% of UCSB students are OOS. It was very friendly environment for our DC though.

UCLA, UCBerkley and UC San Diego will reduce OOS student admissions to make way for more local Cal residents. So it is going to become even harder for youth from DMV to become admitted to the UC system.

However, OP mentioned this is a first generation college student application and the UC administration take great pride in providing social mobility for first generation students, military vets and Latino youth so it may be worth a shot.

Good luck OP!

Anonymous wrote:I graduated UC Davis and I agree with most of the PPs. I loved it there, but it's not a good value for out of state. I did know some students from Hawaii, but most students were from CA.

Most of the lower division required classes are in huge lecture halls and you don't get much personal attention.

yep, weeds out those who can't hack it and need a lot of handholding.

My magnet kid decided to not apply to UCs from DC area because col is too high. DC could probably skip a semester or maybe two with all the AP/IB tests DC has taken, but col is just too high, not to mention the airfare. And I grew up in CA, and went to univ there. Even back in the 90s, it took some people 5 yrs to graduate because of how impacted some of the programs were, myself included.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m going to take the other side as a number of PPs. If DC wants to go to a strong research university (that is, a university with highly ranked graduate study programs) it is really hard to beat the UC system.

In addition to Cal and UCLA, UCSD and UCI are very strong in life sciences, math, CS. I would rank almost all programs from there above the same programs from UIUC, UMich, and UVa. (CS at UIUC an exception to that).

Nobody's saying the UC options are bad for grad school. Everybody (from CA) is saying they make sense for OOS undergrad only in the rarest of circumstances.

PP that is the UCLA grad (spouse also) two nieces currently in UC's. Exactly, graduate programs are a whole different animal. Paying 65K+ a year for a UC undergraduate degree and make no mistake it is more because CA and all of the lifestyle costs aren't cheap is not worth it. You'll be paying for 5 years in most circumstances, there are better values out there.