Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was speaking with an admissions officer at a school in the 20-40 range and they said the most interesting thing. They said their school always wants the sky high SATs because it makes them look good, increase caliber of student, etc but that there isn’t a direct correlation between students they really like and those high scores. Whereas apparently the high ACT students almost always seem intellectual curious and interesting. They hypothesized that this was because the ACT better served kids who read (intellectually curious) whereas SAT is more gamed through studying and of course, there are kids who study who are curious but you don’t need to be curious in order to want to do well on a test. Just an interesting thought I’d love some opinions on. Not saying any kid is better or worse for which test they took and the officer did say they don’t favor either test in admissions.

This is a really stupid post. Until fairly recently the overwhelming majority of applicants to schools on both coasts submitted only the SAT and applicants in the midwest submitted only the ACT. So it's not like most school have a real basis for comparison.

+1. OP appears to have an agenda. I believe OP's kid got a high score in ACT, but failed to get a high score in SAT.

I believe your kid got a high score on the SAT, but failed to get a high score on the ACT.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most kids find the ACT easier.

+ 1. ACT is much easier. In fact, what I heard is non-intellectual students submits ACT because they cannot get a high SAT score.

Source?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s interesting. The ACT rewards speed, so it makes sense that it would reward those who read a lot (more than just what’s required for school).

Anecdotally, my DC did better on the ACT, which surprised me a bit, since math is not his strong suit, and I thought he’d benefit from having more time there. But it wasn’t even close.

My DC does conform to the hypothesis. He is a voracious reader — he’s currently reading a book on the history of the Ottoman Empire for fun, and knows as much about current events and politics as just about anyone I know (and I worked on Capitol Hill). He’s near the top of his class, but he’s not going to waste his time studying stuff he’s not interested in any more than he has to, so his grades aren’t perfect. That said, his teachers give him rave reviews, because “he’s always got something interesting to say.” I think he’s going to blossom in college when he gets to focus on things that he’s passionate about, and he’s going to be one of those kids that professors enjoy teaching.

So, one anecdote in favor of the theory, I guess.

Would you mind sharing a little more about this? What level of math had he completed when he took the ACT? And how big was the difference in his score between ACT and SAT?

DP here. Look, another poster's experience on this really isn't helpful to yours or anyone else's. Just have your kid take both the SAT and ACT and see what the results are. They're often unpredictable.

Example. We had three kids take both. One got a 600 on the SAT verbal, a 710 on the math -- but a 34 on the English section of the ACT and a 30 on the math. Another got a 770 on the SAT verbal and a 660 on the math, but only had a 24 composite on the ACT and didn't crack anywhere near a 30 on any subject. The third got virtually identical scores on both. And for what it worth, the one who got the 770 on the SAT verbal was a voracious reader, and the one who got the 34 on the English ACT was not. Not even close.

Look, my kid has anxiety and hates standardized testing, so I’m trying to help them avoid having to take any more tests than they have to. Interested to know what “math is not his strong suit” meant in this context. But thanks for sharing your experience (immediately after noting that “another poster’s experience on this really isn’t helpful to yours or anyone else’s, LOL).

I’m the pp who described their kid, and I don’t remember the SAT math score, but the composite was 100s of points lower (comparatively). The tutor we hired said that he should absolutely focus on the ACT. DC was just finishing geometry when he took the SAT. What I mean by “not his strong suit” — he’s a straight A student, except for Bs in one math class, and he is in honors math, but not the top tier “AP” math track (we made the decision that he would be better off in the long run being more comfortable vs. struggling in the higher track). He had a 36 in Reading the first time, and after some tutoring, brought his math up from a 25 to a 29 and his science up from a 33 to a 36 (English was a bit lower the first time, but I don’t remember the exact ##). Anyway, he ended up with a composite of 34 (29/36/35/36), which is great (I’m very proud of him), but still pretty unbalanced.

I do agree with those above who point out that “speed” involves processing speed, as well as reading speed. Also agree that every kid is different.

FWIW, my kid has pretty severe test anxiety (nausea, the whole bit), and taking the test multiple times was a good thing. One really helpful thing that the tutoring did was force my kid to take timed practice tests. Obviously, a motivated kid can do this on their own, but a kid with anxiety is less likely to do it voluntarily. He learned a lot of substance and test-taking strategies from the tutor, but it was also a form of anxiety “exposure therapy.” By the time he got to the second ACT, he was so much more confident and “desensitized,” for lack of a better word.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was speaking with an admissions officer at a school in the 20-40 range and they said the most interesting thing. They said their school always wants the sky high SATs because it makes them look good, increase caliber of student, etc but that there isn’t a direct correlation between students they really like and those high scores. Whereas apparently the high ACT students almost always seem intellectual curious and interesting. They hypothesized that this was because the ACT better served kids who read (intellectually curious) whereas SAT is more gamed through studying and of course, there are kids who study who are curious but you don’t need to be curious in order to want to do well on a test. Just an interesting thought I’d love some opinions on. Not saying any kid is better or worse for which test they took and the officer did say they don’t favor either test in admissions.

This is a really stupid post. Until fairly recently the overwhelming majority of applicants to schools on both coasts submitted only the SAT and applicants in the midwest submitted only the ACT. So it's not like most school have a real basis for comparison.

+1. OP appears to have an agenda. I believe OP's kid got a high score in ACT, but failed to get a high score in SAT.

Anonymous wrote:Most kids find the ACT easier.

+ 1. ACT is much easier. In fact, what I heard is non-intellectual students submits ACT because they cannot get a high SAT score.

Anonymous wrote:Figuring out which test to take is as easy as downloading a sample SAT from the CB and a sample ACT from ACT and taking both.

One of my kids was stronger per by 150 points on the SAT. TJ kid with ADHD/ slow processing speed. His verbal was consistent across SAT/ACT. But math was much higher on SAT. He ended up with a 740 V/780 M. He could not break a 30 on math ACT without using extended time. And he hated using extended time because he didn’t need it on verbal and science, and it made the test too long to sustain attention. So, he submitted a high SAT.

My other kids is the stereotypical wonky reader described above. SAT of 1370 (730V/640M). Concordance is a 30 ACT, 27M, 34V.

Her ACT OTOH was a 34– concordance of 1510 SAT. 36 Eng, 36 Reading, 33 Science, 31 math. Concordance is 800 V, 710 M. ACT was 140 points higher.

Have your kid take the practice tests and figure out which test works best for them. It can make a huge difference.

Interesting to read this. My kid tried the ACT and got 36s on the reading/eng/science sections but got a 30 on math, which really surprised us since he's really strong in math. He said he just ran out of time. Wonder if the SAT will be a better test for him for the same reason as your son...although I never particularly thought of him as having slow processing speed.

Figuring out which test to take is as easy as downloading a sample SAT from the CB and a sample ACT from ACT and taking both.

One of my kids was stronger per by 150 points on the SAT. TJ kid with ADHD/ slow processing speed. His verbal was consistent across SAT/ACT. But math was much higher on SAT. He ended up with a 740 V/780 M. He could not break a 30 on math ACT without using extended time. And he hated using extended time because he didn’t need it on verbal and science, and it made the test too long to sustain attention. So, he submitted a high SAT.

My other kids is the stereotypical wonky reader described above. SAT of 1370 (730V/640M). Concordance is a 30 ACT, 27M, 34V.

Her ACT OTOH was a 34– concordance of 1510 SAT. 36 Eng, 36 Reading, 33 Science, 31 math. Concordance is 800 V, 710 M. ACT was 140 points higher.

Have your kid take the practice tests and figure out which test works best for them. It can make a huge difference.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s interesting. The ACT rewards speed, so it makes sense that it would reward those who read a lot (more than just what’s required for school).

Anecdotally, my DC did better on the ACT, which surprised me a bit, since math is not his strong suit, and I thought he’d benefit from having more time there. But it wasn’t even close.

My DC does conform to the hypothesis. He is a voracious reader — he’s currently reading a book on the history of the Ottoman Empire for fun, and knows as much about current events and politics as just about anyone I know (and I worked on Capitol Hill). He’s near the top of his class, but he’s not going to waste his time studying stuff he’s not interested in any more than he has to, so his grades aren’t perfect. That said, his teachers give him rave reviews, because “he’s always got something interesting to say.” I think he’s going to blossom in college when he gets to focus on things that he’s passionate about, and he’s going to be one of those kids that professors enjoy teaching.

So, one anecdote in favor of the theory, I guess.

Would you mind sharing a little more about this? What level of math had he completed when he took the ACT? And how big was the difference in his score between ACT and SAT?

DP here. Look, another poster's experience on this really isn't helpful to yours or anyone else's. Just have your kid take both the SAT and ACT and see what the results are. They're often unpredictable.

Example. We had three kids take both. One got a 600 on the SAT verbal, a 710 on the math -- but a 34 on the English section of the ACT and a 30 on the math. Another got a 770 on the SAT verbal and a 660 on the math, but only had a 24 composite on the ACT and didn't crack anywhere near a 30 on any subject. The third got virtually identical scores on both. And for what it worth, the one who got the 770 on the SAT verbal was a voracious reader, and the one who got the 34 on the English ACT was not. Not even close.

Look, my kid has anxiety and hates standardized testing, so I’m trying to help them avoid having to take any more tests than they have to. Interested to know what “math is not his strong suit” meant in this context. But thanks for sharing your experience (immediately after noting that “another poster’s experience on this really isn’t helpful to yours or anyone else’s, LOL).

C'mon now. My point was that all three were completely different so you can't draw conclusions from anyone's anecdotes. LOTS of kids are anxious and hate standardized tests -- mine included But guess what? If you want your kid to get into a decent college they have to take them. My hunch is that your helicoptering and agonizing over which test to take is only adding to the anxiety. You're inflating their importance to your kid instead of downplaying them. If you really want to help, you'd be telling your kid that the beauty of the system is that you have two options rather than one, so just exercise both and take it from there. If your kid only takes one, being anxious they'll always be second-guessing that decision.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s interesting. The ACT rewards speed, so it makes sense that it would reward those who read a lot (more than just what’s required for school).

Anecdotally, my DC did better on the ACT, which surprised me a bit, since math is not his strong suit, and I thought he’d benefit from having more time there. But it wasn’t even close.

My DC does conform to the hypothesis. He is a voracious reader — he’s currently reading a book on the history of the Ottoman Empire for fun, and knows as much about current events and politics as just about anyone I know (and I worked on Capitol Hill). He’s near the top of his class, but he’s not going to waste his time studying stuff he’s not interested in any more than he has to, so his grades aren’t perfect. That said, his teachers give him rave reviews, because “he’s always got something interesting to say.” I think he’s going to blossom in college when he gets to focus on things that he’s passionate about, and he’s going to be one of those kids that professors enjoy teaching.

So, one anecdote in favor of the theory, I guess.

Would you mind sharing a little more about this? What level of math had he completed when he took the ACT? And how big was the difference in his score between ACT and SAT?

DP here. Look, another poster's experience on this really isn't helpful to yours or anyone else's. Just have your kid take both the SAT and ACT and see what the results are. They're often unpredictable.

Example. We had three kids take both. One got a 600 on the SAT verbal, a 710 on the math -- but a 34 on the English section of the ACT and a 30 on the math. Another got a 770 on the SAT verbal and a 660 on the math, but only had a 24 composite on the ACT and didn't crack anywhere near a 30 on any subject. The third got virtually identical scores on both. And for what it worth, the one who got the 770 on the SAT verbal was a voracious reader, and the one who got the 34 on the English ACT was not. Not even close.

Look, my kid has anxiety and hates standardized testing, so I’m trying to help them avoid having to take any more tests than they have to. Interested to know what “math is not his strong suit” meant in this context. But thanks for sharing your experience (immediately after noting that “another poster’s experience on this really isn’t helpful to yours or anyone else’s, LOL).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ACT is a test of speed.

This. My kid is intellectual, curious, a voracious speed reader (checks out a dozen books at a time from the library; read War and Peace for fun while at a sleep away camp), but has somewhat slower processing speed, and the SAT score was hundreds of points better (took it once) than the ACT score.

+1, same for all three of my kids

ACT is more straightforward than SAT but with less time per question.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s interesting. The ACT rewards speed, so it makes sense that it would reward those who read a lot (more than just what’s required for school).

Anecdotally, my DC did better on the ACT, which surprised me a bit, since math is not his strong suit, and I thought he’d benefit from having more time there. But it wasn’t even close.

My DC does conform to the hypothesis. He is a voracious reader — he’s currently reading a book on the history of the Ottoman Empire for fun, and knows as much about current events and politics as just about anyone I know (and I worked on Capitol Hill). He’s near the top of his class, but he’s not going to waste his time studying stuff he’s not interested in any more than he has to, so his grades aren’t perfect. That said, his teachers give him rave reviews, because “he’s always got something interesting to say.” I think he’s going to blossom in college when he gets to focus on things that he’s passionate about, and he’s going to be one of those kids that professors enjoy teaching.

So, one anecdote in favor of the theory, I guess.

Would you mind sharing a little more about this? What level of math had he completed when he took the ACT? And how big was the difference in his score between ACT and SAT?

DP here. Look, another poster's experience on this really isn't helpful to yours or anyone else's. Just have your kid take both the SAT and ACT and see what the results are. They're often unpredictable.

Example. We had three kids take both. One got a 600 on the SAT verbal, a 710 on the math -- but a 34 on the English section of the ACT and a 30 on the math. Another got a 770 on the SAT verbal and a 660 on the math, but only had a 24 composite on the ACT and didn't crack anywhere near a 30 on any subject. The third got virtually identical scores on both. And for what it worth, the one who got the 770 on the SAT verbal was a voracious reader, and the one who got the 34 on the English ACT was not. Not even close.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s interesting. The ACT rewards speed, so it makes sense that it would reward those who read a lot (more than just what’s required for school).

Anecdotally, my DC did better on the ACT, which surprised me a bit, since math is not his strong suit, and I thought he’d benefit from having more time there. But it wasn’t even close.

My DC does conform to the hypothesis. He is a voracious reader — he’s currently reading a book on the history of the Ottoman Empire for fun, and knows as much about current events and politics as just about anyone I know (and I worked on Capitol Hill). He’s near the top of his class, but he’s not going to waste his time studying stuff he’s not interested in any more than he has to, so his grades aren’t perfect. That said, his teachers give him rave reviews, because “he’s always got something interesting to say.” I think he’s going to blossom in college when he gets to focus on things that he’s passionate about, and he’s going to be one of those kids that professors enjoy teaching.

So, one anecdote in favor of the theory, I guess.

Would you mind sharing a little more about this? What level of math had he completed when he took the ACT? And how big was the difference in his score between ACT and SAT?

My son took the pre-ACT last year in 10th grade. He was just beginning geometry then. He's on the old math track which is what I took in school (we are both crap at math). He got a 26 in English, 29 in reading, 21 in science, 19 in STEM, and a 16 in math. Overall was a 23 which equates to a 1140 on the SATs. He took a few practice SAT tests last spring/summer and got a high score of 1080 which equals a 21 on the ACTs. So it makes me think that the ACTs do favor the verbal kids. He just took the PSATs at school this week so his score should come back in December. After that, he might just prep for the ACTs instead of the SATs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ACT is a test of speed.

This. My kid is intellectual, curious, a voracious speed reader (checks out a dozen books at a time from the library; read War and Peace for fun while at a sleep away camp), but has somewhat slower processing speed, and the SAT score was hundreds of points better (took it once) than the ACT score.

^^to be clear, the "slow processing part" is in between knowing the answer (instant) and filling out the bubble (delay).

Anonymous wrote:ACT is a test of speed.

This. My kid is intellectual, curious, a voracious speed reader (checks out a dozen books at a time from the library; read War and Peace for fun while at a sleep away camp), but has somewhat slower processing speed, and the SAT score was hundreds of points better (took it once) than the ACT score.

Anonymous wrote:That’s interesting. The ACT rewards speed, so it makes sense that it would reward those who read a lot (more than just what’s required for school).

Anecdotally, my DC did better on the ACT, which surprised me a bit, since math is not his strong suit, and I thought he’d benefit from having more time there. But it wasn’t even close.

My DC does conform to the hypothesis. He is a voracious reader — he’s currently reading a book on the history of the Ottoman Empire for fun, and knows as much about current events and politics as just about anyone I know (and I worked on Capitol Hill). He’s near the top of his class, but he’s not going to waste his time studying stuff he’s not interested in any more than he has to, so his grades aren’t perfect. That said, his teachers give him rave reviews, because “he’s always got something interesting to say.” I think he’s going to blossom in college when he gets to focus on things that he’s passionate about, and he’s going to be one of those kids that professors enjoy teaching.

So, one anecdote in favor of the theory, I guess.

Would you mind sharing a little more about this? What level of math had he completed when he took the ACT? And how big was the difference in his score between ACT and SAT?