It's gaslighting if it's part of a pattern that makes the wife feel like she is going crazy.

If the husband says that the wife can't manage to complete her work obligations because she can't get her act together or that she isn't assertive in asking for help, and he uses this as an example, then it's gaslighting.

If the wife is starting to wonder if she really should have gotten in his face to ask louder, or actually put the baby in the car, or completed her work in 1/2 of the time it takes other people, and she has thoughts that this situation is all somehow her fault, then it might be gaslighting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here on DCUM:

Man disagrees with woman = gaslighting

Nice try!

A disagreement:
“Even though we’re in a fight, I think you should do me a favor.”
“I don’t agree and I’m not going to do that.”

Gaslighting:
“I didn’t hear you” (when you know someone heard you)

Don’t want to do a favor for someone you’re mad at? Nut up and say: “No, I am not going to do that.”

I agree with you but I also long for the day when a husband taking care of his kid while wife works is not considered a favor.

It is a favor, but it would also be a favor if DH was staying home and DW was going out -- a trip out with an extra kid is a favor!!

I think this could be an example of gaslighting. Gaslighting is hard to see because it’s a pattern rather than a single incident, and it’s the pattern that makes you feel crazy.

The gaslighting incidents usually fit into a larger narrative that the person doing the gaslighting is making about you. If he always says (and tells other people) that you are bad with time management, or if he says that you don’t speak up for yourself in the marriage or ask for the things that you need, and he is left to “read your mind,” and that’s why you couldn’t get it together to get your work done on time or to get the baby in the car, or he is acting like you really didn’t ask him to take the baby because you don’t speak up for yourself, and you are lying about it now, then this would be an example of gaslighting.

I think the idea is that nothing is ever his fault, all of the problems you have are your own fault and due to some personal flaw, and that he consistently lies about examples of this “flaw.”

All that you can do is recognize it for what it is, stop arguing about it (he isn’t going to “come around,” and you are only going to feel more crazy), and lean more on other relationships for emotional support.

This is textbook passive aggressive, but not gaslighting. And it sucks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here on DCUM:

Man disagrees with woman = gaslighting

Nice try!

A disagreement:
“Even though we’re in a fight, I think you should do me a favor.”
“I don’t agree and I’m not going to do that.”

Gaslighting:
“I didn’t hear you” (when you know someone heard you)

Don’t want to do a favor for someone you’re mad at? Nut up and say: “No, I am not going to do that.”

I agree with you but I also long for the day when a husband taking care of his kid while wife works is not considered a favor.

If their everyday schedule routine is for X, Y and Z to happen, then either spouse asking for more time—to do work, or go out for a drink—is a favor. My husband and I split things as 50/50 as any couple can get, in my opinion. Part of our routine is that he drops the kids off in the morning. If he has a work thing or a doctor’s appointment or something, and we can plan for it, then no it is not a favor for me to plan that through with him and do the drop-off myself. But if on a whim he just wants more time to himself, then yeah, it’s a favor.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here on DCUM:

Man disagrees with woman = gaslighting

Nice try!

A disagreement:
“Even though we’re in a fight, I think you should do me a favor.”
“I don’t agree and I’m not going to do that.”

Gaslighting:
“I didn’t hear you” (when you know someone heard you)

Don’t want to do a favor for someone you’re mad at? Nut up and say: “No, I am not going to do that.”

I agree with you but I also long for the day when a husband taking care of his kid while wife works is not considered a favor.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Oof. My DH would do this. He has (recently diagnosed) ADHD , but he is also kind of an asshole, and I am still trying to untangle which of his behaviors are ADHD and which ones are asshole. He has improved since meds but it has been only 4-5 months so still sorting it out. The way I would interpret MY DH's thought in this scenario is like: "I am too overwhelmed to deal with this sudden requirement, so I will just get outta here"

And this happens on autopilot, because it is a habitual behavior, formed in childhood. The habitual behavior leaves no space for a moment of empathy, as in, what does it mean to my DW that I do this? He would do it without even considering feelings, but feel badly about my feelings when he must consider them later.

Then, when he is confronted, yes, some gaslighting "I didn't hear you." (Which in the case of ADHD, sometimes they really do tune out, so you second-guess yourself. If he is an asshole, don't second-guess)

Then finally, he blames it on you - "didn't get kid in car seat for me" (because the ADHD person needs to get rid of the shame and/or always requires your help; the asshole is the same).

(I actually really love my DH by the way.)[/quote]
Yuck. All unacceptable and inexcusable no matter what is driving it. (Which you will never determine)[/quote]

Same with my aspergers spouse. It’s destroyed the marriage and relationship with me and the children and anyone that vacations with us.

The incompetence, then temper tantrum, then lies & gaslighting, then blame and deflect onto others. So predictable yet scary and sad. Sad that this is the father of my children and this is how he behaves, time and time again. He even gaslights and blames his own young children for stuff he did wrong or forgot or messed up. It’s so scary and so sad.[/quote]

My ex did this too and I found out he has autism anxiety and ADHD, all untreated and things he's in denial about. Not sure which one prevails with the behavior, but it's been weird watching him act like the kids are the same age as him. After 15 years I was done, so we are no longer married. It's something to do with the fact that some men mature at slower rates and so actually think they are on the same intellectual playing field as their kids.

I'm the PP who wrote out my ADHD DH's thought process. It's bothering me that I can't fix the quotes!!

It struck me that the behavior is actually the same as a narcissist, but the intent is different. Having grown up with a narcissistic parent, I am seeing that I chose a DH to repeat my patterns, sigh! It matters to me that the motivations are different though. I love my DH because I KNOW he loves and cares for me underneath it (not just hoping he loves me underneath it all, as you do with a narcissist).

For the PP whose DH is untreated: My DH was untreated for most of his life, now in his 40s. I always knew something was "off" and while we talked about him having ADHD or being on the spectrum, it just didn't really sink in because we didn't know enough about it, and DH thought he was successful enough that he didn't need help. The thing that changed was, his young adult son on his own initiative decided to seek a diagnosis for himself. Then we really started learning about it, and I suspected our younger child has it too. After the young adult son was diagnosed and successfully treated, DH was all-in on getting diagnosed too.

He takes Adderall, and I knew it was working the 2nd day he was on it when he emerged from his lair and asked to join the board game we were playing. He says he feels more calm and more functional. I notice he's less frustrated and more willing to help. I can tell when he hasn't taken it, because he's more agitated/irritating.

If you think this might be your a-hole DH's issue, I recommend reading all about ADHD and having some conversations about it. If the DH refuses getting treatment, then you're going to need therapy for yourself.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Oof. My DH would do this. He has (recently diagnosed) ADHD , but he is also kind of an asshole, and I am still trying to untangle which of his behaviors are ADHD and which ones are asshole. He has improved since meds but it has been only 4-5 months so still sorting it out. The way I would interpret MY DH's thought in this scenario is like: "I am too overwhelmed to deal with this sudden requirement, so I will just get outta here"

And this happens on autopilot, because it is a habitual behavior, formed in childhood. The habitual behavior leaves no space for a moment of empathy, as in, what does it mean to my DW that I do this? He would do it without even considering feelings, but feel badly about my feelings when he must consider them later.

Then, when he is confronted, yes, some gaslighting "I didn't hear you." (Which in the case of ADHD, sometimes they really do tune out, so you second-guess yourself. If he is an asshole, don't second-guess)

Then finally, he blames it on you - "didn't get kid in car seat for me" (because the ADHD person needs to get rid of the shame and/or always requires your help; the asshole is the same).

(I actually really love my DH by the way.)[/quote]
Yuck. All unacceptable and inexcusable no matter what is driving it. (Which you will never determine)[/quote]

Same with my aspergers spouse. It’s destroyed the marriage and relationship with me and the children and anyone that vacations with us.

The incompetence, then temper tantrum, then lies & gaslighting, then blame and deflect onto others. So predictable yet scary and sad. Sad that this is the father of my children and this is how he behaves, time and time again. He even gaslights and blames his own young children for stuff he did wrong or forgot or messed up. It’s so scary and so sad.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Oof. My DH would do this. He has (recently diagnosed) ADHD , but he is also kind of an asshole, and I am still trying to untangle which of his behaviors are ADHD and which ones are asshole. He has improved since meds but it has been only 4-5 months so still sorting it out. The way I would interpret MY DH's thought in this scenario is like: I am too overwhelmed to deal with this sudden requirement, so I will just get outta here

And this happens on autopilot, because it is a habitual behavior, formed in childhood. The habitual behavior leaves no space for a moment of empathy, as in, what does it mean to my DW that I do this? He would do it without even considering feelings, but feel badly about my feelings when he must consider them later.

Then, when he is confronted, yes, some gaslighting "I didn't hear you." (Which in the case of ADHD, sometimes they really do tune out, so you second-guess yourself. If he is an asshole, don't second-guess)

Then finally, he blames it on you - "didn't get kid in car seat for me" (because the ADHD person needs to get rid of the shame and/or always requires your help; the asshole is the same).

(I actually really love my DH by the way.)
[/quote]

Yuck. All unacceptable and inexcusable no matter what is driving it. (Which you will never determine)[/quote]

This is spot on. And also yes, miserable marriage fodder. My spouse with ADHD would lose it if asked to change the plan so close to the activity. Unable to functionally handle adding the additional ask (baby) to the plan already in motion (picking up the kid). Only would if discussed with enough time where spouse could process it and stack it into the plan mentally. Otherwise, would ask the same as OP.

It’s just one aspect of a miserable life >[b]10 years in to having children with someone who won’t treat ADHD[/b] (neither tools nor meds).[/quote][/quote]

NP. You sound like a very caring and thoughtful spouse. I feel similar and wonder if my husband has similar issues. I love him dearly but he blows up at me if I ask a question or make a request at the "wrong" time. I'm trying to be helpful and thoughtful, and yet he turns around and attacks me. It's like he can't handle it. Maybe if I keep your tactics in mind we'll have more peace. I am shaken up by the way he treated me this morning when I simply asked, "Did he eat breakfast? Would you like me to pack breakfast?" Before he took our toddler out. It's like he had to find a way to attack me - accusing me of thinking the family is a burden and has to get out of the house; why I didn't get him breakfast (mind you I am holding our 7 week old baby at the time), going into even more confusing and hurtful things... When my only intent for asking the questions was to try to be helpful since he'd just said hr wants to take the toddler to a playground now.
Sigh.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Oof. My DH would do this. He has (recently diagnosed) ADHD , but he is also kind of an asshole, and I am still trying to untangle which of his behaviors are ADHD and which ones are asshole. He has improved since meds but it has been only 4-5 months so still sorting it out. The way I would interpret MY DH's thought in this scenario is like: I am too overwhelmed to deal with this sudden requirement, so I will just get outta here

And this happens on autopilot, because it is a habitual behavior, formed in childhood. The habitual behavior leaves no space for a moment of empathy, as in, what does it mean to my DW that I do this? He would do it without even considering feelings, but feel badly about my feelings when he must consider them later.

Then, when he is confronted, yes, some gaslighting "I didn't hear you." (Which in the case of ADHD, sometimes they really do tune out, so you second-guess yourself. If he is an asshole, don't second-guess)

Then finally, he blames it on you - "didn't get kid in car seat for me" (because the ADHD person needs to get rid of the shame and/or always requires your help; the asshole is the same).

(I actually really love my DH by the way.)
[/quote]

Yuck. All unacceptable and inexcusable no matter what is driving it. (Which you will never determine)[/quote]

This is spot on. And also yes, miserable marriage fodder. My spouse with ADHD would lose it if asked to change the plan so close to the activity. Unable to functionally handle adding the additional ask (baby) to the plan already in motion (picking up the kid). Only would if discussed with enough time where spouse could process it and stack it into the plan mentally. Otherwise, would ask the same as OP.

It’s just one aspect of a miserable life >[b]10 years in to having children with someone who won’t treat ADHD[/b] (neither tools nor meds).[/quote]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Oof. My DH would do this. He has (recently diagnosed) ADHD , but he is also kind of an asshole, and I am still trying to untangle which of his behaviors are ADHD and which ones are asshole. He has improved since meds but it has been only 4-5 months so still sorting it out. The way I would interpret MY DH's thought in this scenario is like: "I am too overwhelmed to deal with this sudden requirement, so I will just get outta here"

And this happens on autopilot, because it is a habitual behavior, formed in childhood. The habitual behavior leaves no space for a moment of empathy, as in, what does it mean to my DW that I do this? He would do it without even considering feelings, but feel badly about my feelings when he must consider them later.

Then, when he is confronted, yes, some gaslighting "I didn't hear you." (Which in the case of ADHD, sometimes they really do tune out, so you second-guess yourself. If he is an asshole, don't second-guess)

Then finally, he blames it on you - "didn't get kid in car seat for me" (because the ADHD person needs to get rid of the shame and/or always requires your help; the asshole is the same).

(I actually really love my DH by the way.)[/quote]
Yuck. All unacceptable and inexcusable no matter what is driving it. (Which you will never determine)[/quote]

This is spot on. And also yes, miserable marriage fodder. My spouse with ADHD would lose it if asked to change the plan so close to the activity. Unable to functionally handle adding the additional ask (baby) to the plan already in motion (picking up the kid). Only would if discussed with enough time where spouse could process it and stack it into the plan mentally. Otherwise, would ask the same as OP.

It’s just one aspect of a miserable life >10 years in to having children with someone who won’t treat ADHD (neither tools nor meds).

[quote=Anonymous]Oof. My DH would do this. He has (recently diagnosed) ADHD , but he is also kind of an asshole, and I am still trying to untangle which of his behaviors are ADHD and which ones are asshole. He has improved since meds but it has been only 4-5 months so still sorting it out. The way I would interpret MY DH's thought in this scenario is like: "I am too overwhelmed to deal with this sudden requirement, so I will just get outta here"

And this happens on autopilot, because it is a habitual behavior, formed in childhood. The habitual behavior leaves no space for a moment of empathy, as in, what does it mean to my DW that I do this? He would do it without even considering feelings, but feel badly about my feelings when he must consider them later.

Then, when he is confronted, yes, some gaslighting "I didn't hear you." (Which in the case of ADHD, sometimes they really do tune out, so you second-guess yourself. If he is an asshole, don't second-guess)

Then finally, he blames it on you - "didn't get kid in car seat for me" (because the ADHD person needs to get rid of the shame and/or always requires your help; the asshole is the same).

(I actually really love my DH by the way.)[/quote]
Yuck. All unacceptable and inexcusable no matter what is driving it. (Which you will never determine)

Anonymous wrote:Here on DCUM:

Man disagrees with woman = gaslighting

Nice try!

A disagreement:
“Even though we’re in a fight, I think you should do me a favor.”
“I don’t agree and I’m not going to do that.”

Gaslighting:
“I didn’t hear you” (when you know someone heard you)

Don’t want to do a favor for someone you’re mad at? Nut up and say: “No, I am not going to do that.”

Here on DCUM:

Man disagrees with woman = gaslighting