Anonymous
Post 10/14/2021 21:24     Subject: Parents who don’t foster healthy relationships in childhood yet expect them in adulthood?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Unless you've had a parent like this -and I have (not OP)- no one on here has any business lecturing OP on what she should do. Full stop.

If you're responding, you should state the perspective you're coming from so OP can evaluate it's relevance. Folks from happy, close relationships with parents simply cannot understand the trauma of dysfunctional, cruel, difficult (or worse) childhoods as a result of their parents.


+1

My background is different from OP's but has some important similarities -- parents had children very young, never overcame their own traumatic childhoods, and that had predictable consequences on their parenting and their relationship with their children. I have had two major epiphanies regarding my parents in my life:

1) When I was 13 and my dad was threatening to take a belt to my younger brother over lackluster efforts in cleaning the kitchen (a threat that he'd followed through on many times before) and I realized that when our parents punished us like this, when the screamed and yelled, they were behaving like children. Because they basically were children. I realized in that moment that I had better emotional regulation and control than my parents did, that I could see these situations more clearly than they could. I don't know how I gained that awareness but it hit me all at once and it was both empowering and desperately, desperately sad. I remember calmly telling my dad that whipping my brother wouldn't make anything better, wouldn't get the kitchen cleaner or calm his rage. I expected him to hit me instead, but he just walked away. Neither of them ever hit us again.

2) When I was 37 and had my first child, and my parents were a total mess. Just peak emotional manipulation, acting envious of the attention the baby was getting, alternately raging at me and begging me for access to their grandchildren, again just acting like unregulated children. That's when I realized it would never get better. I had before that though that with the right therapy or medication or the right boundary setting from me, my parents could improve and mature. That's when I realized it would never happen. My focus would be on my own kids, and my parents have still never reconciled with their own pasts. They will be like this until they die, and then I think there will be a release for me. I know it sounds terrible to say that. I know I will also be very sad when they die. But I also know it will liberate me when it does.

So all I have to say to you OP, is that it's okay. It's okay for you to be upset with your mother and to resent her expectations for a close relationship now. And it's okay for you to set boundaries with her, to say no. It's okay to form closer bonds with your ILs if they offer you what you need, and you should not feel guilt for that. I feel sad for your mom and I wish she'd had the support and skill set to be a better mother for you. But even though I empathize with why she struggled, that doesn't mean you must continue to suffer to make it better for you. This is your one life and you should live it as well as you can. I have resolved not to pass this generational trauma onto my own kids, and that means keeping my parents at arms length in a way I know hurts them. But my responsibility to myself and to my children is greater than my responsibility to my parents. I cannot give them now what they never got in their own childhoods, and it cannot be my responsibility to do so.


Well written and insightful post! I am going to have ponder this as I think about my parents, my upbringing and my DC.
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2021 20:50     Subject: Parents who don’t foster healthy relationships in childhood yet expect them in adulthood?
Anonymous wrote:I can relate OP. My mom was also very young (20) when she had me and had three kids after that. But she married young so it’s not the same situation. My whole life I have heard all about her sacrifices and how having kids made her life so hard. I’m in my 40s now and she still always talks about how tough having kids is and constantly jokes about not understanding why people have kids. Fine to joke around with your friend about this but not fine to say this to one of your own kids.
She also wonders why we aren’t close.


My mother was typical age for having kids in her day-20s and she had easy kids. We fulfilled all her crazy expectations of top grades, top schools yada yada. She loves to yap on about how kids are a major disappointment and how her younger friends need to just accept what she already figured out. Like you said...fine to say to your friends I suppose, but so rude and obnoxious to say to your actual children.
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2021 13:59     Subject: Parents who don’t foster healthy relationships in childhood yet expect them in adulthood?
Anonymous wrote:My mother has those expectations as well. Once I read, "The hardest thing about having a narcissistic parent as a grown person is the expectation of a relationship that doesn't exist."


This is SO true.
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2021 13:57     Subject: Re:Parents who don’t foster healthy relationships in childhood yet expect them in adulthood?
Some people live in a land of delusion. My in-laws are the same. FIL is verbally abusive (to his wife, to his kids, and to his grandkids), MIL is an enabler of SIL's poor life choices, and my husband stays away from all of it and isn't close to his dad, his mom, or his sister. FIL acts like he's a beacon of morality and love and can't figure out what he ever did to make us not worship the ground he walks on (even though some of his abuse has been over text, so it's literally in black and white), MIL acts like her children are best friends and she's super close with her son (who tells me that it's a chore to have to interact with her because she never paid any attention to him growing up and never showed any interest in him until he had kids), SIL acts like we're snobby because we don't use her parents for money and free childcare like she does (although we have never said one word about it). They all live on their own planet where reality isn't a problem for them.
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2021 13:41     Subject: Parents who don’t foster healthy relationships in childhood yet expect them in adulthood?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Unless you've had a parent like this -and I have (not OP)- no one on here has any business lecturing OP on what she should do. Full stop.

If you're responding, you should state the perspective you're coming from so OP can evaluate it's relevance. Folks from happy, close relationships with parents simply cannot understand the trauma of dysfunctional, cruel, difficult (or worse) childhoods as a result of their parents.


+1

My background is different from OP's but has some important similarities -- parents had children very young, never overcame their own traumatic childhoods, and that had predictable consequences on their parenting and their relationship with their children. I have had two major epiphanies regarding my parents in my life:

1) When I was 13 and my dad was threatening to take a belt to my younger brother over lackluster efforts in cleaning the kitchen (a threat that he'd followed through on many times before) and I realized that when our parents punished us like this, when the screamed and yelled, they were behaving like children. Because they basically were children. I realized in that moment that I had better emotional regulation and control than my parents did, that I could see these situations more clearly than they could. I don't know how I gained that awareness but it hit me all at once and it was both empowering and desperately, desperately sad. I remember calmly telling my dad that whipping my brother wouldn't make anything better, wouldn't get the kitchen cleaner or calm his rage. I expected him to hit me instead, but he just walked away. Neither of them ever hit us again.

2) When I was 37 and had my first child, and my parents were a total mess. Just peak emotional manipulation, acting envious of the attention the baby was getting, alternately raging at me and begging me for access to their grandchildren, again just acting like unregulated children. That's when I realized it would never get better. I had before that though that with the right therapy or medication or the right boundary setting from me, my parents could improve and mature. That's when I realized it would never happen. My focus would be on my own kids, and my parents have still never reconciled with their own pasts. They will be like this until they die, and then I think there will be a release for me. I know it sounds terrible to say that. I know I will also be very sad when they die. But I also know it will liberate me when it does.

So all I have to say to you OP, is that it's okay. It's okay for you to be upset with your mother and to resent her expectations for a close relationship now. And it's okay for you to set boundaries with her, to say no. It's okay to form closer bonds with your ILs if they offer you what you need, and you should not feel guilt for that. I feel sad for your mom and I wish she'd had the support and skill set to be a better mother for you. But even though I empathize with why she struggled, that doesn't mean you must continue to suffer to make it better for you. This is your one life and you should live it as well as you can. I have resolved not to pass this generational trauma onto my own kids, and that means keeping my parents at arms length in a way I know hurts them. But my responsibility to myself and to my children is greater than my responsibility to my parents. I cannot give them now what they never got in their own childhoods, and it cannot be my responsibility to do so.


+10000 this is a great post! You are so wise, PP.

I will add my experience in that my mom (single mom only child me) would drop me off with my grandparents alllll the time on the weekends. Like I practically lived there. I loved them and didn’t know any different. I never once saw her go out to eat or shop alone with my grandmother or grandfather. When I had my own kids, she moved closer to me and I assumed because she wanted to see the kids more. She hardly babysat and refused any time I asked to drop them off for an overnight. Meanwhile, she guilted me all. The. Time. To take her out to events or meals or attend boring old people things with her (despite having 3 kids). Now that she has left the area due to covid, I have the clarity to be like what the heck was that entitlement all about?!? Totally unfounded based on how she raised me (ie pretty much ignored me).
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2021 13:10     Subject: Parents who don’t foster healthy relationships in childhood yet expect them in adulthood?
Anonymous wrote:I can relate OP. My mom was also very young (20) when she had me and had three kids after that. But she married young so it’s not the same situation. My whole life I have heard all about her sacrifices and how having kids made her life so hard. I’m in my 40s now and she still always talks about how tough having kids is and constantly jokes about not understanding why people have kids. Fine to joke around with your friend about this but not fine to say this to one of your own kids.
She also wonders why we aren’t close.


I’m so happy to read this thread and this comment. It feels good to know I’m not alone!
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2021 12:36     Subject: Parents who don’t foster healthy relationships in childhood yet expect them in adulthood?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Unless you've had a parent like this -and I have (not OP)- no one on here has any business lecturing OP on what she should do. Full stop.

If you're responding, you should state the perspective you're coming from so OP can evaluate it's relevance. Folks from happy, close relationships with parents simply cannot understand the trauma of dysfunctional, cruel, difficult (or worse) childhoods as a result of their parents.


+1

My background is different from OP's but has some important similarities -- parents had children very young, never overcame their own traumatic childhoods, and that had predictable consequences on their parenting and their relationship with their children. I have had two major epiphanies regarding my parents in my life:

1) When I was 13 and my dad was threatening to take a belt to my younger brother over lackluster efforts in cleaning the kitchen (a threat that he'd followed through on many times before) and I realized that when our parents punished us like this, when the screamed and yelled, they were behaving like children. Because they basically were children. I realized in that moment that I had better emotional regulation and control than my parents did, that I could see these situations more clearly than they could. I don't know how I gained that awareness but it hit me all at once and it was both empowering and desperately, desperately sad. I remember calmly telling my dad that whipping my brother wouldn't make anything better, wouldn't get the kitchen cleaner or calm his rage. I expected him to hit me instead, but he just walked away. Neither of them ever hit us again.

2) When I was 37 and had my first child, and my parents were a total mess. Just peak emotional manipulation, acting envious of the attention the baby was getting, alternately raging at me and begging me for access to their grandchildren, again just acting like unregulated children. That's when I realized it would never get better. I had before that though that with the right therapy or medication or the right boundary setting from me, my parents could improve and mature. That's when I realized it would never happen. My focus would be on my own kids, and my parents have still never reconciled with their own pasts. They will be like this until they die, and then I think there will be a release for me. I know it sounds terrible to say that. I know I will also be very sad when they die. But I also know it will liberate me when it does.

So all I have to say to you OP, is that it's okay. It's okay for you to be upset with your mother and to resent her expectations for a close relationship now. And it's okay for you to set boundaries with her, to say no. It's okay to form closer bonds with your ILs if they offer you what you need, and you should not feel guilt for that. I feel sad for your mom and I wish she'd had the support and skill set to be a better mother for you. But even though I empathize with why she struggled, that doesn't mean you must continue to suffer to make it better for you. This is your one life and you should live it as well as you can. I have resolved not to pass this generational trauma onto my own kids, and that means keeping my parents at arms length in a way I know hurts them. But my responsibility to myself and to my children is greater than my responsibility to my parents. I cannot give them now what they never got in their own childhoods, and it cannot be my responsibility to do so.

What a fantastic and insightful post, PP. I’m sad that you and OP and others with similar parents have had to deal with this. I hope your brother is at a place of peace too!
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2021 11:04     Subject: Parents who don’t foster healthy relationships in childhood yet expect them in adulthood?
Anonymous wrote:Unless you've had a parent like this -and I have (not OP)- no one on here has any business lecturing OP on what she should do. Full stop.

If you're responding, you should state the perspective you're coming from so OP can evaluate it's relevance. Folks from happy, close relationships with parents simply cannot understand the trauma of dysfunctional, cruel, difficult (or worse) childhoods as a result of their parents.


+1

My background is different from OP's but has some important similarities -- parents had children very young, never overcame their own traumatic childhoods, and that had predictable consequences on their parenting and their relationship with their children. I have had two major epiphanies regarding my parents in my life:

1) When I was 13 and my dad was threatening to take a belt to my younger brother over lackluster efforts in cleaning the kitchen (a threat that he'd followed through on many times before) and I realized that when our parents punished us like this, when the screamed and yelled, they were behaving like children. Because they basically were children. I realized in that moment that I had better emotional regulation and control than my parents did, that I could see these situations more clearly than they could. I don't know how I gained that awareness but it hit me all at once and it was both empowering and desperately, desperately sad. I remember calmly telling my dad that whipping my brother wouldn't make anything better, wouldn't get the kitchen cleaner or calm his rage. I expected him to hit me instead, but he just walked away. Neither of them ever hit us again.

2) When I was 37 and had my first child, and my parents were a total mess. Just peak emotional manipulation, acting envious of the attention the baby was getting, alternately raging at me and begging me for access to their grandchildren, again just acting like unregulated children. That's when I realized it would never get better. I had before that though that with the right therapy or medication or the right boundary setting from me, my parents could improve and mature. That's when I realized it would never happen. My focus would be on my own kids, and my parents have still never reconciled with their own pasts. They will be like this until they die, and then I think there will be a release for me. I know it sounds terrible to say that. I know I will also be very sad when they die. But I also know it will liberate me when it does.

So all I have to say to you OP, is that it's okay. It's okay for you to be upset with your mother and to resent her expectations for a close relationship now. And it's okay for you to set boundaries with her, to say no. It's okay to form closer bonds with your ILs if they offer you what you need, and you should not feel guilt for that. I feel sad for your mom and I wish she'd had the support and skill set to be a better mother for you. But even though I empathize with why she struggled, that doesn't mean you must continue to suffer to make it better for you. This is your one life and you should live it as well as you can. I have resolved not to pass this generational trauma onto my own kids, and that means keeping my parents at arms length in a way I know hurts them. But my responsibility to myself and to my children is greater than my responsibility to my parents. I cannot give them now what they never got in their own childhoods, and it cannot be my responsibility to do so.
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2021 11:00     Subject: Re:Parents who don’t foster healthy relationships in childhood yet expect them in adulthood?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP this seems like something to explore in therapy. Your mother was a child when she had you.

If you can find a way to view her as a flawed human who did the best she could, you might be able to find some compassion for her.


This.

Are you a mother yet? That should give you a different perspective. I hope you have a 16 year old daughter someday so you can see things from the other side.

If you could build a loving relationship with your in-laws, then surely you can have a relationship with your own mother.

Get therapy, and build a healthy new relationship with your mom. Forget the past, and focus on the present.


I think you response is disingenuous. I wholeheartedly agree that OP should get therapy. The goal of therapy is not to forget the past. The goal of therapy is to help work through all the weird feelings of love, hate, disappointment, guilt etc. that you experience as an adult when you have a dysfunctional childhood and to give you strategies for dealing with your parent in an adult relationship. OP does not have an obligation to have a relationship with her mother, but, it sounds like she has a close relationship with extended family (which means she has to deal with her mom at times as well).

OP, good luck to you. My own experience is that therapy will help a lot (and you may not even need to go to that many sessions). Don't focus on "fixing" the relationship with your mother. Just figure out strategies and responses for when she drives you crazy. I also find it helpful to remind myself of good things about my parents (my dad had a love for halloween and it is actually one holiday I only have good memories of). It humanizes them and makes them seem not all bad. Definitely don't enmesh yourself in family therapy with her like another PP suggested, just focus on yourself.
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2021 10:53     Subject: Re:Parents who don’t foster healthy relationships in childhood yet expect them in adulthood?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP this seems like something to explore in therapy. Your mother was a child when she had you.

If you can find a way to view her as a flawed human who did the best she could, you might be able to find some compassion for her.


+1 You need to be the mother you never had to yourself OP. You need to move on from your toxic childhood and you can choose to forgive differ give.

I could forgive my childhood if I wasn’t still being blamed in adulthood


Tell her that, OP. Tell your mother how you feel. It may or may not change her behavior, but at least it is out there.
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2021 10:45     Subject: Parents who don’t foster healthy relationships in childhood yet expect them in adulthood?
I can relate OP. My mom was also very young (20) when she had me and had three kids after that. But she married young so it’s not the same situation. My whole life I have heard all about her sacrifices and how having kids made her life so hard. I’m in my 40s now and she still always talks about how tough having kids is and constantly jokes about not understanding why people have kids. Fine to joke around with your friend about this but not fine to say this to one of your own kids.
She also wonders why we aren’t close.
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2021 10:20     Subject: Re:Parents who don’t foster healthy relationships in childhood yet expect them in adulthood?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP this seems like something to explore in therapy. Your mother was a child when she had you.

If you can find a way to view her as a flawed human who did the best she could, you might be able to find some compassion for her.


This.

Are you a mother yet? That should give you a different perspective. I hope you have a 16 year old daughter someday so you can see things from the other side.

If you could build a loving relationship with your in-laws, then surely you can have a relationship with your own mother.

Get therapy, and build a healthy new relationship with your mom. Forget the past, and focus on the present.


WTF, why should OP make the effort if her mom is continually mean to her? Maybe her mom should make the effort!
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2021 09:07     Subject: Parents who don’t foster healthy relationships in childhood yet expect them in adulthood?
Unless you've had a parent like this -and I have (not OP)- no one on here has any business lecturing OP on what she should do. Full stop.

If you're responding, you should state the perspective you're coming from so OP can evaluate it's relevance. Folks from happy, close relationships with parents simply cannot understand the trauma of dysfunctional, cruel, difficult (or worse) childhoods as a result of their parents.
Anonymous
Post 10/14/2021 07:57     Subject: Re:Parents who don’t foster healthy relationships in childhood yet expect them in adulthood?
Anonymous wrote:OP this seems like something to explore in therapy. Your mother was a child when she had you.

If you can find a way to view her as a flawed human who did the best she could, you might be able to find some compassion for her.


This.

Are you a mother yet? That should give you a different perspective. I hope you have a 16 year old daughter someday so you can see things from the other side.

If you could build a loving relationship with your in-laws, then surely you can have a relationship with your own mother.

Get therapy, and build a healthy new relationship with your mom. Forget the past, and focus on the present.
Anonymous
Post 10/12/2021 23:14     Subject: Parents who don’t foster healthy relationships in childhood yet expect them in adulthood?
Anonymous wrote:Your mother was a child when she had a child. Going through something traumatic (yes, having a baby at 16 falls into that category, even if you're perfectly wonderful which I'm sure you are) stunts developmental growth. Your mom has some amount of arrested development.

If having interactions with your inlaws is more pleasant for you that's fine. I mean, it's sad but understandable. But there's no need to rub your mom's face in it - she doesn't need to know every time you hang out with them.


+1000