Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think about this a ton given the astronomical prices. I don't think college is a total scam. I think the focus on select brand names obscures the goal of finding the right fit and leads a ton of families to overpay.

I see value in paying for any/all of the things college can provide - rigorous higher education, pre-professional training, opportunities to intern, a soft launch to adult independence, study abroad, etc etc.

But I can't square myself with the actual cost at many of these schools. I'm inclined to encourage my DD to get out of the rat race and go to a local state school campus and I'll give her a cash gift of would-be college savings as a grad gift.

Your poor daughter

Anonymous wrote:My masters immediately tripled my salary compared to my bachelors. Both from state flagships (different states). 7 years later and my salary has tripled from that first post-grad job and I work about half as hard.

Flagship school #1 was $12k/year and my scholarships brought it down to about $4k. I worked to pay for rent and living expenses. My dad was able to contribute about $12k over the 4 years, leaving me with $4k in loans. I paid that off in the 3 years after graduation, before starting grad school. I finished grad school with no debt because I had an assistantship and paid the fees in cash each semester. I am one of the few millennials I know that was relatively free of student debt, but only because I prioritized making that a reality for myself.

I hope my kids go to trade school and get started in their careers years before I did. I’ve had to play catch up in getting retirement savings started since I was in school until I was 26. My first company did not match for 401(k) and second company offers no retirement planning at all, so it’s been something I’m actively managing and working on.

Anonymous wrote:I think about this a ton given the astronomical prices. I don't think college is a total scam. I think the focus on select brand names obscures the goal of finding the right fit and leads a ton of families to overpay.

I see value in paying for any/all of the things college can provide - rigorous higher education, pre-professional training, opportunities to intern, a soft launch to adult independence, study abroad, etc etc.

But I can't square myself with the actual cost at many of these schools. I'm inclined to encourage my DD to get out of the rat race and go to a local state school campus and I'll give her a cash gift of would-be college savings as a grad gift.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The belief that most kids should go to college is a scam, yes.

I live and teach high school in Germany. Fewer than half of German high school students go to university because many people aren't suited to higher academic work and quality of university standards needs to be consistent across the country. Society needs and values people in the trades, like plumbers, electricians, hair stylists, etc, so there are appropriate specialised high schools where students best suited to those fields can receive training and apprenticeship support to successfully enter their chosen fields. We don't look down on the trades or try to encourage a child who isn't academic to struggle and strive for university at all costs with no backup plan here.

America has made university a business and everyone is catching on that US universities are not consistent in quality and weaker students who don't belong in university just pay to attend weaker universities. This is why university costs a fortune in America and is free in Germany.

Lots of good observations in here.

But one of the biggest ones is the way Americans value jobs and professions. Because we are hyper-capitalist, we value jobs according to how much they pay. Jobs that pay the most are valued the most, not just by the people in those jobs but by everyone. We assume lawyers, people in finance, doctors, etc. are better and more important people because they get paid a lot of money. And thus we assume people working low-wage work are less worthwhile because they are doing low-wage work.

So everyone wants to go to college here because the highest paid jobs generally require higher education (most exceptions involve work that is either dangerous or very inconvenient). People look down on those without college degrees or people who do trade work because it's lower paid. There is little general appreciation for the idea that in order for society to function, we need people in all different roles. And then of course there is almost no social safety net to help ensure that people working in lower paid trade jobs still have a a good standard of living. All these decisions feed each other. It's a cultural issue.

If we had cultural values beyond money, it would be easier to see this. But at this point money an the pursuit of money is our most fundamental national principle.

Anonymous wrote:The belief that most kids should go to college is a scam, yes.

I live and teach high school in Germany. Fewer than half of German high school students go to university because many people aren't suited to higher academic work and quality of university standards needs to be consistent across the country. Society needs and values people in the trades, like plumbers, electricians, hair stylists, etc, so there are appropriate specialised high schools where students best suited to those fields can receive training and apprenticeship support to successfully enter their chosen fields. We don't look down on the trades or try to encourage a child who isn't academic to struggle and strive for university at all costs with no backup plan here.

America has made university a business and everyone is catching on that US universities are not consistent in quality and weaker students who don't belong in university just pay to attend weaker universities. This is why university costs a fortune in America and is free in Germany.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The belief that most kids should go to college is a scam, yes.

I live and teach high school in Germany. Fewer than half of German high school students go to university because many people aren't suited to higher academic work and quality of university standards needs to be consistent across the country. Society needs and values people in the trades, like plumbers, electricians, hair stylists, etc, so there are appropriate specialised high schools where students best suited to those fields can receive training and apprenticeship support to successfully enter their chosen fields. We don't look down on the trades or try to encourage a child who isn't academic to struggle and strive for university at all costs with no backup plan here.

America has made university a business and everyone is catching on that US universities are not consistent in quality and weaker students who don't belong in university just pay to attend weaker universities. This is why university costs a fortune in America and is free in Germany.

I'm not familiar with Germany but assume it provides more of the social safety nets we lack. I come from a working class family in a working class neighborhood and those jobs are great. But they are often very physically hard on people, so much so they can't expect to work 30 years in a trade like we do at our white collar desk jobs. So the carpet layer whose knees go out by the time he's 40 and can't perform that same work can be in trouble. Social Security doesn't start til 62 and that's a reduced benefit. What does he do for 22 more years? If we had true universal health care (so perhaps he could get knee replacements), real paid time off, and a solid pension, skilled trade work would boom.

Anonymous wrote:I learned a ton and it lifted me out of abject poverty. It taught me the skills to perform and land a lucrative career. College changed my life trajectory.

Anonymous wrote:The belief that most kids should go to college is a scam, yes.

I live and teach high school in Germany. Fewer than half of German high school students go to university because many people aren't suited to higher academic work and quality of university standards needs to be consistent across the country. Society needs and values people in the trades, like plumbers, electricians, hair stylists, etc, so there are appropriate specialised high schools where students best suited to those fields can receive training and apprenticeship support to successfully enter their chosen fields. We don't look down on the trades or try to encourage a child who isn't academic to struggle and strive for university at all costs with no backup plan here.

America has made university a business and everyone is catching on that US universities are not consistent in quality and weaker students who don't belong in university just pay to attend weaker universities. This is why university costs a fortune in America and is free in Germany.