NP, this topic interests me every time it is brought up, and it should be brought up again and again. It is not SOLVED. If someone gave me this crap solution at work I would tell them it is sub-par and not the best we can do for our clients. Why are we settling for this?

We already know the problem is systemic, but how do we begin to unravel? We really need to think big, and have a greenfield approach. That means clean slate.

Why are older kids taking care of siblings? Can a school system provide that for free? If people don't like "school" doing that, let's call the system a "youth" system. It is for education, enrichment, and corresponds with a working household schedule. How can sports and homework fit in? Do we need a better system of homework that is not "grind" but teaches valuable independent skills? Can those independent skills be taught during school (youth) hours?

Can we move to 4 day weeks in standard "youth" and "work" schedules? Maybe move large sports activities to the 5th day?

The current system is based on so. many. things. that just do not factor in anymore. Why don't we have great minds working this out? And yes, who IS the confederacy of imbeciles who want status quo? Is it power? Money? Complacency? We need to ask ourselves these questions.

So who's going to pay for all the new busses and drivers to make sure these start times are convenient for you?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Like I said, the science is pretty clear that sending High School students to school at 7:45 is damaging. At the bare minimum the start times should be reversed. HS students should start at 9, elementary schoolers at 7:45. As far as after school jobs and sports, I would think that education and student's mental health should be the priority here.

PP, you may be surprised to learn that all of these issues were explicitly addressed when MCPS made their bell time decision in 2015.

Sure, it's too bad the kids' weren't prioritized over the convenience of adults back then.

https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/features/schools-start-too-early.html

^^^How not to persuade decision-makers to change a policy.

Very true. These decisions aren't made based on the evidence. They're oriented around satisfying a few well-connected interest groups.

Yes, it's easier to complain than to try to persuade people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Like I said, the science is pretty clear that sending High School students to school at 7:45 is damaging. At the bare minimum the start times should be reversed. HS students should start at 9, elementary schoolers at 7:45. As far as after school jobs and sports, I would think that education and student's mental health should be the priority here.

PP, you may be surprised to learn that all of these issues were explicitly addressed when MCPS made their bell time decision in 2015.

Sure, it's too bad the kids' weren't prioritized over the convenience of adults back then.

https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/features/schools-start-too-early.html

^^^How not to persuade decision-makers to change a policy.

We live in a country where half the adult population would rather eat horse-deworming paste than take advantage of vaccines, so yes, you're right citing the CDC may not be the most effective strategy:

Not getting enough sleep is common among high school students and is associated with several health risks including being overweight, drinking alcohol, smoking tobacco, and using drugs, as well as poor academic performance. One of the reasons adolescents do not get enough sleep is early school start times. The American Academy of PediatricsExternalexternal iconexternal icon has recommended that middle and high schools start at 8:30 a.m. or later to give students the opportunity to get the amount of sleep they need, but most American adolescents start school too early.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Like I said, the science is pretty clear that sending High School students to school at 7:45 is damaging. At the bare minimum the start times should be reversed. HS students should start at 9, elementary schoolers at 7:45. As far as after school jobs and sports, I would think that education and student's mental health should be the priority here.

PP, you may be surprised to learn that all of these issues were explicitly addressed when MCPS made their bell time decision in 2015.

Sure, it's too bad the kids' weren't prioritized over the convenience of adults back then.

https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/features/schools-start-too-early.html

^^^How not to persuade decision-makers to change a policy.

Very true. These decisions aren't made based on the evidence. They're oriented around satisfying a few well-connected interest groups.

Anonymous wrote:Also, the irony of someone not being able to spell imbecile

I'm giggling.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously, ladies, enough already. The science is in:

https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/features/schools-start-too-early.html

This staggering of start times is 100% bass-ackwards.

Board of Education Approves Later School Start Times
Level Time Length of Day
High School 7:45 a.m.–2:30 p.m. 6 hours, 45 minutes
Middle School 8:15 a.m.–3:00 p.m. 6 hours, 45 minutes
Elementary School Tier 1 9:00 a.m.–3:25 p.m. 6 hours, 25 minutes
Elementary School Tier 2 9:25 a.m.–3:50 p.m. 6 hours, 25 minutes

This has been raised often in the past. The main issue is that many high schoolers care of younger siblings after school and need to be able to pick them up, so need to get out earlier. The earlier start time also allows high schoolers to have afternoon jobs/internships.

I am not saying I agree - and would love an earlier start time for elementary and a later one for my middle schooler, but these have been some main points raised in the past.

Like I said, the science is pretty clear that sending High School students to school at 7:45 is damaging. At the bare minimum the start times should be reversed. HS students should start at 9, elementary schoolers at 7:45. As far as after school jobs and sports, I would think that education and student's mental health should be the priority here.

Damaging?! C’mon.

That's what the CDC says: https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/features/schools-start-too-early.html

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Like I said, the science is pretty clear that sending High School students to school at 7:45 is damaging. At the bare minimum the start times should be reversed. HS students should start at 9, elementary schoolers at 7:45. As far as after school jobs and sports, I would think that education and student's mental health should be the priority here.

PP, you may be surprised to learn that all of these issues were explicitly addressed when MCPS made their bell time decision in 2015.

Sure, it's too bad the kids' weren't prioritized over the convenience of adults back then.

https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/features/schools-start-too-early.html

^^^How not to persuade decision-makers to change a policy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously, ladies, enough already. The science is in:

https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/features/schools-start-too-early.html

This staggering of start times is 100% bass-ackwards.

Board of Education Approves Later School Start Times
Level Time Length of Day
High School 7:45 a.m.–2:30 p.m. 6 hours, 45 minutes
Middle School 8:15 a.m.–3:00 p.m. 6 hours, 45 minutes
Elementary School Tier 1 9:00 a.m.–3:25 p.m. 6 hours, 25 minutes
Elementary School Tier 2 9:25 a.m.–3:50 p.m. 6 hours, 25 minutes

This has been raised often in the past. The main issue is that many high schoolers care of younger siblings after school and need to be able to pick them up, so need to get out earlier. The earlier start time also allows high schoolers to have afternoon jobs/internships.

I am not saying I agree - and would love an earlier start time for elementary and a later one for my middle schooler, but these have been some main points raised in the past.

Like I said, the science is pretty clear that sending High School students to school at 7:45 is damaging. At the bare minimum the start times should be reversed. HS students should start at 9, elementary schoolers at 7:45. As far as after school jobs and sports, I would think that education and student's mental health should be the priority here.

Student mental health is going to be pretty bad if they can’t contribute financially when their family needs them to or can’t save for college. It’s going to be pretty bad if their parents lose a job because they don’t have childcare for the younger siblings.

Anonymous wrote:

I agree. 7.45 is too early for teenagers. It means waking up at 5.45 or 6 for many of them to be up and out in time to catch the bus.

Almost everyone agrees with this. The question is what to do about it. The 7:45 am start time was the COMPROMISE SOLUTION.

You're welcome to try again, if you want, but everything that applied in 2015 still applies now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously, ladies, enough already. The science is in:

https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/features/schools-start-too-early.html

This staggering of start times is 100% bass-ackwards.

Board of Education Approves Later School Start Times
Level Time Length of Day
High School 7:45 a.m.–2:30 p.m. 6 hours, 45 minutes
Middle School 8:15 a.m.–3:00 p.m. 6 hours, 45 minutes
Elementary School Tier 1 9:00 a.m.–3:25 p.m. 6 hours, 25 minutes
Elementary School Tier 2 9:25 a.m.–3:50 p.m. 6 hours, 25 minutes

So, let's say we flip that around. Give High school and Middle school the last two slots.

High school then gets out at 4:10. So, they START after school sports, jobs, and HW at 4:30?

That's not sustainable for most families, unless you don't value family time at all, or don't value your kid having sports, arts, employment etc . . .

It's a matter of prioritization. No reason kids can't do sports in the morning.

I agree. 7.45 is too early for teenagers. It means waking up at 5.45 or 6 for many of them to be up and out in time to catch the bus.

Yep, believe the science: https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/features/schools-start-too-early.html

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously, ladies, enough already. The science is in:

https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/features/schools-start-too-early.html

This staggering of start times is 100% bass-ackwards.

Board of Education Approves Later School Start Times
Level Time Length of Day
High School 7:45 a.m.–2:30 p.m. 6 hours, 45 minutes
Middle School 8:15 a.m.–3:00 p.m. 6 hours, 45 minutes
Elementary School Tier 1 9:00 a.m.–3:25 p.m. 6 hours, 25 minutes
Elementary School Tier 2 9:25 a.m.–3:50 p.m. 6 hours, 25 minutes

This has been raised often in the past. The main issue is that many high schoolers care of younger siblings after school and need to be able to pick them up, so need to get out earlier. The earlier start time also allows high schoolers to have afternoon jobs/internships.

I am not saying I agree - and would love an earlier start time for elementary and a later one for my middle schooler, but these have been some main points raised in the past.

Like I said, the science is pretty clear that sending High School students to school at 7:45 is damaging. At the bare minimum the start times should be reversed. HS students should start at 9, elementary schoolers at 7:45. As far as after school jobs and sports, I would think that education and student's mental health should be the priority here.

Damaging?! C’mon.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Like I said, the science is pretty clear that sending High School students to school at 7:45 is damaging. At the bare minimum the start times should be reversed. HS students should start at 9, elementary schoolers at 7:45. As far as after school jobs and sports, I would think that education and student's mental health should be the priority here.

PP, you may be surprised to learn that all of these issues were explicitly addressed when MCPS made their bell time decision in 2015.

Sure, it's too bad the kids' weren't prioritized over the convenience of adults back then.

https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/features/schools-start-too-early.html

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you new here? We went through this seven years ago (or so) and after an expensive feasibility study, MCPS determined that the best they could do was shift bell times by 20 minutes.

There are a lot of reasons for that, but you can read more here. https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/info/pdf/Bell%20Times%20Analysis%20Addl%20Options%20Jan2015.pdf

Digging into this, the main reason seems to be that it's convenient for teachers' unions.

What did you use to dig Maybe one of those spoons they give you a taste with at ice cream stores?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously, ladies, enough already. The science is in:

https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/features/schools-start-too-early.html

This staggering of start times is 100% bass-ackwards.

Board of Education Approves Later School Start Times
Level Time Length of Day
High School 7:45 a.m.–2:30 p.m. 6 hours, 45 minutes
Middle School 8:15 a.m.–3:00 p.m. 6 hours, 45 minutes
Elementary School Tier 1 9:00 a.m.–3:25 p.m. 6 hours, 25 minutes
Elementary School Tier 2 9:25 a.m.–3:50 p.m. 6 hours, 25 minutes

So, let's say we flip that around. Give High school and Middle school the last two slots.

High school then gets out at 4:10. So, they START after school sports, jobs, and HW at 4:30?

That's not sustainable for most families, unless you don't value family time at all, or don't value your kid having sports, arts, employment etc . . .

It's a matter of prioritization. No reason kids can't do sports in the morning.

I agree. 7.45 is too early for teenagers. It means waking up at 5.45 or 6 for many of them to be up and out in time to catch the bus.