Anonymous
Post 09/23/2021 12:37     Subject: Did MCPS do a sneaky thing for the magnet lotteries?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Does that mean 11k students were actually entered into the lottery? Or 11k students were examined for their eligibility for the lottery? In long past, only some students were even recommended to try for the HGC. That has expanded to all students being allowed to try for the HGC/CES, meaning all students are "considered."


It looks to me that 11k were entered into the lottery.

There are 12k students per grade:
https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/middle.pdf

Only MAP 85% and above can enter the lottery.

There are 3 numbers:
(1) number of students considered (MCPS published numbers, almost all students)
(2) number of students in the lottery (not published)
(3) number of students placed in programs (published)


You made this up. They have never said discussed who was actually in the lottery.
11K students were technically "considered" in 2019 and 2020 too but that is not the number in the considered column in this document.

If you are correct and I'm not saying you are correct or incorrect just that we don't know.... there's a reason MCPS is comparing apples to oranges and it's about covering up something.
Anonymous
Post 09/23/2021 12:36     Subject: Did MCPS do a sneaky thing for the magnet lotteries?
Anonymous wrote:MCPS:
Parents have a right to see see the average grades, and test scores for the kids who made the lottery versus previous years. They have a right to understand who was in the lottery pool, what cut offs were used, and why the decision to use whatever criteria they used was chosen, and why the decision was made without public discussion.

When other school districts made similar changes to their magnet programs there were forums, even virtual ones, where parents and other stakeholders could discuss and debate and there could be transparency.

Why is MCPS, a public entity funded by our taxpayer dollars, allowed to act in such secrecy and without any oversight?


Maybe because any information MCPS provides, MCPS parents will use to try to cheat the system.

I disagree with your premise, anyway. I don't think that parents have a "right" to this information.
Anonymous
Post 09/23/2021 12:34     Subject: Did MCPS do a sneaky thing for the magnet lotteries?
MCPS:
Parents have a right to see see the average grades, and test scores for the kids who made the lottery versus previous years. They have a right to understand who was in the lottery pool, what cut offs were used, and why the decision to use whatever criteria they used was chosen, and why the decision was made without public discussion.

When other school districts made similar changes to their magnet programs there were forums, even virtual ones, where parents and other stakeholders could discuss and debate and there could be transparency.

Why is MCPS, a public entity funded by our taxpayer dollars, allowed to act in such secrecy and without any oversight?
Anonymous
Post 09/23/2021 12:32     Subject: Did MCPS do a sneaky thing for the magnet lotteries?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Does that mean 11k students were actually entered into the lottery? Or 11k students were examined for their eligibility for the lottery? In long past, only some students were even recommended to try for the HGC. That has expanded to all students being allowed to try for the HGC/CES, meaning all students are "considered."


It looks to me that 11k were entered into the lottery.

There are 12k students per grade:
https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/middle.pdf

Only MAP 85% and above can enter the lottery.

There are 3 numbers:
(1) number of students considered (MCPS published numbers, almost all students)
(2) number of students in the lottery (not published)
(3) number of students placed in programs (published)
Anonymous
Post 09/23/2021 12:30     Subject: Re:Did MCPS do a sneaky thing for the magnet lotteries?
Yes, we know people whose kids were not placed in the lottery for the middle school magnets. And my current 4th grader was not placed in the lottery for CES.
Anonymous
Post 09/23/2021 12:21     Subject: Did MCPS do a sneaky thing for the magnet lotteries?
Anyone's kid NOT make the lottery?
Anonymous
Post 09/23/2021 12:20     Subject: Did MCPS do a sneaky thing for the magnet lotteries?
Anonymous wrote:Does that mean 11k students were actually entered into the lottery? Or 11k students were examined for their eligibility for the lottery? In long past, only some students were even recommended to try for the HGC. That has expanded to all students being allowed to try for the HGC/CES, meaning all students are "considered."


It looks to me that 11k were entered into the lottery.
Anonymous
Post 09/23/2021 12:08     Subject: Re:Did MCPS do a sneaky thing for the magnet lotteries?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If all those kids thrive in the magnet program, that will be a clear indication that MCPS can and should expand the offering to have more seats for more kids. Ridiculous to keep so many students away from a wonderful program that could give them a more suitable education.

But it is important to remember that there are some highly able students who are desperate for the pace and content of the magnets, and they should probably be considered priority if there are limited seats - the programs are supposed to be about providing enrichment to kids who are slowly going bananas in regular classrooms.


Or, on the other hand, it's a clear indication that MCPS should dismantle the existing magnet program and offer the magnet curriculum to kids in their home schools.

In my limited personal experience, the number of really "highly able" students is much smaller than the number of seats. At least in the previous, pre-form, test-to-get-in admissions processes, most of the kids in the magnet programs were just regular bright middle-class/upper-middle-class kids from families with educated parents.


100% agree with this.


I have 4 kids (two in college) that have been through the magnet processes with varying outcomes, and I also believe that focusing on offering the magnet curriculum at home schools is the way to go. One big problem is that with smaller cohorts it is hard to get support for some of the extra curricular things that Takoma Park and Eastern compete in. Like the CNN documentary competition. And the math adn science competitions at Takoma.
Anonymous
Post 09/23/2021 12:03     Subject: Did MCPS do a sneaky thing for the magnet lotteries?
Looks like their formula might be roughly 20% African American and Hispanic; 25% Asian; 28% White
Anonymous
Post 09/23/2021 12:02     Subject: Did MCPS do a sneaky thing for the magnet lotteries?
Anonymous wrote:Looks like the Hispanic/Latino group benefited the most from their new placement process


This would make sense. MCPS is majority latino.
Anonymous
Post 09/23/2021 11:56     Subject: Re:Did MCPS do a sneaky thing for the magnet lotteries?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If all those kids thrive in the magnet program, that will be a clear indication that MCPS can and should expand the offering to have more seats for more kids. Ridiculous to keep so many students away from a wonderful program that could give them a more suitable education.

But it is important to remember that there are some highly able students who are desperate for the pace and content of the magnets, and they should probably be considered priority if there are limited seats - the programs are supposed to be about providing enrichment to kids who are slowly going bananas in regular classrooms.


Or, on the other hand, it's a clear indication that MCPS should dismantle the existing magnet program and offer the magnet curriculum to kids in their home schools.

In my limited personal experience, the number of really "highly able" students is much smaller than the number of seats. At least in the previous, pre-form, test-to-get-in admissions processes, most of the kids in the magnet programs were just regular bright middle-class/upper-middle-class kids from families with educated parents.


100% agree with this.
Anonymous
Post 09/23/2021 11:53     Subject: Did MCPS do a sneaky thing for the magnet lotteries?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Looks like the Hispanic/Latino group benefited the most from their new placement process


Or...these are the groups who were most disadvantaged by the previous process.


Exactly.
Anonymous
Post 09/23/2021 11:51     Subject: Did MCPS do a sneaky thing for the magnet lotteries?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Looks like the Hispanic/Latino group benefited the most from their new placement process


Or...these are the groups who were most disadvantaged by the previous process.


Could be both


Actually, when you look at it, Black and Hispanic/Latino had more kids screened than in previous years, but every single group had lower percentage of kids placed than kids considered. If OP was right and they'd basically thrown the doors open in terms of who made the lottery, you'd see the "percent placed" roughly track the "percent considered" for every ethnic group. But you still have groups out- or under-performing the number of places their group would get if this were blind luck.


I'm looking at the "# of Students Placed" comparing 2020 with 2021:

Hispanic/Latino increased from 82 to 129 seats,
African American from 102 to 134,
Asian from 212 to 175,
White from 294 to 192,
out of a total of 690 seats for 2021.

Hispanic/Latino had the biggest gain.
Anonymous
Post 09/23/2021 11:39     Subject: Did MCPS do a sneaky thing for the magnet lotteries?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Looks like the Hispanic/Latino group benefited the most from their new placement process


Or...these are the groups who were most disadvantaged by the previous process.


Could be both


Actually, when you look at it, Black and Hispanic/Latino had more kids screened than in previous years, but every single group had lower percentage of kids placed than kids considered. If OP was right and they'd basically thrown the doors open in terms of who made the lottery, you'd see the "percent placed" roughly track the "percent considered" for every ethnic group. But you still have groups out- or under-performing the number of places their group would get if this were blind luck.
Anonymous
Post 09/23/2021 11:37     Subject: Did MCPS do a sneaky thing for the magnet lotteries?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Does that mean 11k students were actually entered into the lottery? Or 11k students were examined for their eligibility for the lottery? In long past, only some students were even recommended to try for the HGC. That has expanded to all students being allowed to try for the HGC/CES, meaning all students are "considered."


I think the latter. Almost every kid in the grade was "considered" but not all made it to the lottery phase. I agree that it is confusing, though.

It’s called Universal Screening. They look at all students to identify ones that might be qualified. Pre-Covid, that subset was notified that they would then get tested with COGAT. Parents could opt out. Previously, parents had to apply to be tested, which left out many eligible students.