Anonymous
Post 09/21/2021 08:30     Subject: Bad ref
Anonymous wrote:We recently had an experience at a tournament with a ref who was completely inappropriate. He stopped the game to comment on a parent's attire. During halftime he repeatedly came over and made comments about political conspiracy theories and referenced the Penn State scandal (one of the parents was wearing a Penn State hat). I get that refs are in short supply, but they really seem to be scraping the bottom of the barrel. Especially with the U-littles.



Not a tournament, but we had an older ref at a recent u-little game who behaved similarly. He was seriously nuts, so I hope we're talking about the same person and there's only one out there.
Anonymous
Post 09/21/2021 08:15     Subject: Bad ref
Anonymous wrote:Have you ever lodged a complaint about inappropriate comments or otherwise bad refereeing? If so - would you share age group and boy/girl and what if any outcome there was? Thank you.



Yes. Years ago. NCSL. Girls. Maybe U12. Nothing happened. It was a ref we’d had before and had had problems with before. He was volatile and got in shouting matches with parents. He escalated all situations instead of calming them down. He was also boorish and missed many simple calls (older guy who couldn’t keep up with play). Anyhow, nothing happened. The league didn’t even reply. About what I expected.
Anonymous
Post 09/21/2021 08:03     Subject: Bad ref
Anonymous wrote:The reality is refs are in very short supply and with fast food paying $15 an hour there is zero reason to become a ref.

The way things stand now - a teenager who is thinking I could be a ref is looking at spending $400-$500 to take the certification class and buy the uniform and a set of flags. How much is your league paying for an AR and a CR? $20/$35 would be about average. Work 2 games back to back and in a season you can just about pay what it costs to become a ref.

Sure if your u9 game paid a CR $150 you would get more and better refs. If you pay $30 , if you are lucky you will get someone looking to give back to the game. Mostly you will get folks who like it, but are always thinking “I could do almost anything else and make more money”. So - if parents are jerks. If coaches think it is okay to yell. Then they go do something else and make more money.


So to become a referee, it's about 4-5 hours of online videos then 4 hours on on field clinic. This all costs $80. To get a full referee kit costs $85. Yellow shirt, shorts, two flags, socks, yellow and red cards, and a whistle. So pretty much $165 out the door. You can add a green jersey once you make a couple of bucks. Different leagues pay different amounts. I would say that EDP pays the best rates. For example, for U13 games, centers get $70 and ARs get $35. For NCSL U13 games, centers get $55 and ARs get $30. Rec U13 games...centers around $35 and ARs get around $25. I just used U13 as an example, pay goes up and down with ages. Each year, you need to recertify and I forget how much that costs. I'll guess at $25. My 14 year old ARd three games last weekend and made $100. Basically "worked" from 7:30-1:30pm so 6 hours (30 minutes in between games). So that's $16.67 an hour. So that isn't bad. He loves soccer. It's outside. He's getting additional exercise but not too physically demanding for him. It's exciting as opposed to working fast food. Once he starts centering, he'll make much more money.
Anonymous
Post 09/21/2021 07:23     Subject: Bad ref
The reality is refs are in very short supply and with fast food paying $15 an hour there is zero reason to become a ref.

The way things stand now - a teenager who is thinking I could be a ref is looking at spending $400-$500 to take the certification class and buy the uniform and a set of flags. How much is your league paying for an AR and a CR? $20/$35 would be about average. Work 2 games back to back and in a season you can just about pay what it costs to become a ref.

Sure if your u9 game paid a CR $150 you would get more and better refs. If you pay $30 , if you are lucky you will get someone looking to give back to the game. Mostly you will get folks who like it, but are always thinking “I could do almost anything else and make more money”. So - if parents are jerks. If coaches think it is okay to yell. Then they go do something else and make more money.





Anonymous
Post 09/21/2021 07:02     Subject: Re:Bad ref
Anonymous wrote:We all know that parents and coaches are way more intense than they should be and that keeps referees away. If parents would be less intense that would help the referee situation. On the flip side, referees need to be better and that will keep the players, coaches, and parents off their back a lot. Some referees seem to not understand that they get paid and it's a job...they should show up on time and be prepared (know the rules of the competition), always know the Laws (referees should continuously review the Laws through out the season), be physically prepared (you don't need to be able to run as fast as a U17 center forward but at least be in reasonable shape to be in position to make better calls), and just be a professional. This goes for Assistant referees (linesmen) too Know the Laws. Be fit. Be in the right position to make calls. Referees can help themselves by being better at that their jobs. Parents need to lighten up because MOST referees are doing their best and some fouls are missed. Sometimes it's impossible to tell who the ball went out of play on. It happens.


I agree with all of this. Some calls are hard to see from a ref’s particular angle, and all of us make mistakes at times, no matter how well-intentioned. The only time I get upset is when you have refs who clearly do not understand the rules (e.g., a recent game we had with an assistant ref who clearly did not understand the offsides rule and kept calling our players offsides when there was a defender standing immediately behind them). But even then, saying something is unlikely to make a difference because a ref who doesn’t understand the rules isn’t going to start calling the game correctly because they got berated by some parents.
Anonymous
Post 09/21/2021 06:24     Subject: Re:Bad ref
We all know that parents and coaches are way more intense than they should be and that keeps referees away. If parents would be less intense that would help the referee situation. On the flip side, referees need to be better and that will keep the players, coaches, and parents off their back a lot. Some referees seem to not understand that they get paid and it's a job...they should show up on time and be prepared (know the rules of the competition), always know the Laws (referees should continuously review the Laws through out the season), be physically prepared (you don't need to be able to run as fast as a U17 center forward but at least be in reasonable shape to be in position to make better calls), and just be a professional. This goes for Assistant referees (linesmen) too Know the Laws. Be fit. Be in the right position to make calls. Referees can help themselves by being better at that their jobs. Parents need to lighten up because MOST referees are doing their best and some fouls are missed. Sometimes it's impossible to tell who the ball went out of play on. It happens.
Anonymous
Post 09/20/2021 23:19     Subject: Bad ref
Anonymous wrote:We recently had an experience at a tournament with a ref who was completely inappropriate. He stopped the game to comment on a parent's attire. During halftime he repeatedly came over and made comments about political conspiracy theories and referenced the Penn State scandal (one of the parents was wearing a Penn State hat). I get that refs are in short supply, but they really seem to be scraping the bottom of the barrel. Especially with the U-littles.



Very true at the younger travel ages - I have a HS-aged referee who is well qualified to referee younger travel games - but he won't do it. He has seen first hand how younger travel parents can act (to be fair all can act in appropriate - but many often mellow with age). So he sticks with rec games with generally less intense parents for only a little less money.
Anonymous
Post 09/20/2021 08:18     Subject: Bad ref
I complained once about an NCSL ref who very slowly went to his car and back for no clear reason in the middle of a game (called a break) while the kids stood there in the pouring rain. I got no response.
Anonymous
Post 09/19/2021 17:40     Subject: Re:Bad ref
RantingSoccerDad wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Is Kid’s soccer who cares?

The league would like to improve the quality of its refs so would like to receive feedback so they can train their refs.


Leagues don’t have refs. Clubs don’t have refs.


Loudoun Soccer does its own ref training, and coaches are given a specific contact if they think refs made a mistake.


Are you talking about loudoun’s internal rec program? If so, then ok. Because certified referees who do NCSL, ccl, edp, ecnl-r, vpsl, ECNL, mls next, etc are not contacted by leagues or clubs. They are contacted by assignors for those matches.


Just to clarify -- as far as I know, Loudoun's rec program uses "certified" referees. They seek out refs through the same mailing lists and sites that the NCSL/CCL/EDP/etc. assignors do.

Vienna has its own in-house rec program as well, but the refs are all required to have USSF certification, and there's a bit more overlap this year because one of the major assignors is working with the club.

Everyone has a shortage -- in fact, if you had a game recently with no ref or an incomplete crew, I'd be interested in talking with you about it. Even MLS Next games have assignors scrambling. It's apparently much worse in England.


DP. What is there to talk about? Our game today was short a ref so one of the parents subbed in, don’t know what else I can tell you though.
Anonymous
Post 09/19/2021 17:00     Subject: Bad ref
We had a terrible ref this weekend for Sat and Sun. Same ref both days. Just really poor, not in one direction but for both teams. ECNL games...Our team fouled the other team like 5 times in the first 3 minutes and nothing was called. I was embarrassed for the guy as he continued to miss calls both ways all game. But there is a shortage of refs, so just have to deal with it I guess.
Anonymous
Post 09/19/2021 13:49     Subject: Bad ref
In Montgomery County, most of the leagues go through MWSRA. And, there is a huge shortage of referees. Encourage your team parents to get their certification and become a referee. See what a piece of cake it is, with kids cussing and parents screaming at you.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2021 05:11     Subject: Re:Bad ref
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Is Kid’s soccer who cares?

The league would like to improve the quality of its refs so would like to receive feedback so they can train their refs.


Leagues don’t have refs. Clubs don’t have refs.


Loudoun Soccer does its own ref training, and coaches are given a specific contact if they think refs made a mistake.


Are you talking about loudoun’s internal rec program? If so, then ok. Because certified referees who do NCSL, ccl, edp, ecnl-r, vpsl, ECNL, mls next, etc are not contacted by leagues or clubs. They are contacted by assignors for those matches.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2021 05:04     Subject: Re:Bad ref
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Is Kid’s soccer who cares?

The league would like to improve the quality of its refs so would like to receive feedback so they can train their refs.


Leagues don’t have refs. Clubs don’t have refs.


Loudoun Soccer does its own ref training, and coaches are given a specific contact if they think refs made a mistake.
Anonymous
Post 09/14/2021 22:35     Subject: Re:Bad ref
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Is Kid’s soccer who cares?

The league would like to improve the quality of its refs so would like to receive feedback so they can train their refs.


Leagues don’t have refs. Clubs don’t have refs.


Loudoun Soccer does its own ref training, and coaches are given a specific contact if they think refs made a mistake.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2021 20:20     Subject: Bad ref
Anonymous wrote:Only once, but we did it through our coach. It was after a game where multiple girls got seriously injured due to uncalled fouls from the other team.

Ummm, why didn’t your team abandon the match, given all serious injuries due to uncalled calls? The parents & the coaches share agency. Don’t blame the red when you saw an unsafe situation.