Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:By and large, a kid with an August birthday in a Sept or later K start date should attempt to stay up and play with grade if possible. For recruiting, for social, etc. But there are exceptions.

Very weak older team and very strong younger team. Where do you get the best development opportunities.

Very late maturing kid who would get more "fair" play playing with the younger team

Extremely good Older team where they would not actually play much and a weaker younger team where they could get on the ball significantly more.

What people seem to forget is that recruiting is not only random scout at random showcase.

I cant emphasize enough that ID camps are one of the critical ways for kids to get seen by college of their choice. That is where coaches get to see them in a controlled environment, with coach dictated positions and match ups. And ID camps are by graduation year.

It is NOT cheating or skirting the system to play on a team that corresponds to your birthdate. It may be sub optimal for recruiting or social aspects but it is unequivocally not cheating.

The part that you're missing is there's always the option of playing on the correct grade B team. If an Aug birthday isn't good enough for the A team thats their grade it shouldn't be assumed that they're good enough for the grade down A team. This is what many people here seem to be assuming on this thread. Maybe you play down and only make the B team. What do you do then?

You do what clubs and leagues say to do, play in your age assigned group. You are inventing convoluted solutions for problems that only exist for you and your daughter.

Nothing is being invented. Below are the facts.

1. Play on a team with players your grade and your friends in school
2. Don't have a weird 9th grade where you play HS soccer but the rest of the team is in 8th grade.

These are the reasons Aug birthdays should play on a team thats their grade.
3. College recruiting will be 1000% easier

And yet you honestly say you don't want GY. Insane.

The only thing people dont like about GY is the holdbacks/regrades. If you could group by grade and everyone was born in a 12 month window GY would work. Unfortunately this is not reality and why GY ruins youth sports. Theres always a parent that wants to make their kid a star by playing against other kids 1-2 years younger.

SY 8/1-7/31 with a rule that younger players play with their grade is perfect. It's GY without the holdbacks.

They also don't like that states have different schools date cutoffs, no real documentation on grades exist, home schooled kids don't have official grades, grades can change for kids kids, clubs would struggle to collect grade info....and more. Anything toward grade year is problematic in a country where grades are inconsistent.

Thats why I keep saying "Leagues provide a recommendation that players play with their grade". You dont need to police the recommendation. Leagues just need to make it clear that they believe Aug (and younger) players that are a grade up should play with their grade level team. This is enough to shut the crazy person that keeps trying to normalize Aug birthdays playing down a grade.

Except a lot of leagues are national leagues that try to field the best players possible and accommodating grade like you envision doesn't do that.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By and large, a kid with an August birthday in a Sept or later K start date should attempt to stay up and play with grade if possible. For recruiting, for social, etc. But there are exceptions.

Very weak older team and very strong younger team. Where do you get the best development opportunities.

Very late maturing kid who would get more "fair" play playing with the younger team

Extremely good Older team where they would not actually play much and a weaker younger team where they could get on the ball significantly more.

What people seem to forget is that recruiting is not only random scout at random showcase.

I cant emphasize enough that ID camps are one of the critical ways for kids to get seen by college of their choice. That is where coaches get to see them in a controlled environment, with coach dictated positions and match ups. And ID camps are by graduation year.

It is NOT cheating or skirting the system to play on a team that corresponds to your birthdate. It may be sub optimal for recruiting or social aspects but it is unequivocally not cheating.

The part that you're missing is there's always the option of playing on the correct grade B team. If an Aug birthday isn't good enough for the A team thats their grade it shouldn't be assumed that they're good enough for the grade down A team. This is what many people here seem to be assuming on this thread. Maybe you play down and only make the B team. What do you do then?

You do what clubs and leagues say to do, play in your age assigned group. You are inventing convoluted solutions for problems that only exist for you and your daughter.

Nothing is being invented. Below are the facts.

1. Play on a team with players your grade and your friends in school
2. Don't have a weird 9th grade where you play HS soccer but the rest of the team is in 8th grade.

These are the reasons Aug birthdays should play on a team thats their grade.
3. College recruiting will be 1000% easier

And yet you honestly say you don't want GY. Insane.

The only thing people dont like about GY is the holdbacks/regrades. If you could group by grade and everyone was born in a 12 month window GY would work. Unfortunately this is not reality and why GY ruins youth sports. Theres always a parent that wants to make their kid a star by playing against other kids 1-2 years younger.

SY 8/1-7/31 with a rule that younger players play with their grade is perfect. It's GY without the holdbacks.

They also don't like that states have different schools date cutoffs, no real documentation on grades exist, home schooled kids don't have official grades, grades can change for kids kids, clubs would struggle to collect grade info....and more. Anything toward grade year is problematic in a country where grades are inconsistent.

Thats why I keep saying "Leagues provide a recommendation that players play with their grade". You dont need to police the recommendation. Leagues just need to make it clear that they believe Aug (and younger) players that are a grade up should play with their grade level team. This is enough to shut the crazy person that keeps trying to normalize Aug birthdays playing down a grade.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD's team will be mixed up for sure next year and it will be interesting to see where things fall.

She is U17 currently, 2009 BY.

Current team is 18 players of the following:

1 Player 2010 BY, HS Sophomore
2 Players 2009 BY, after 8/1 HS Sophomores
3 Players 2009 BY, after 8/1 HS Juniors
12 Players, 2009 BY, before 8/1 HS Juniors

The 2008 team has I believe 4 girls that are after 8/1 but also HS Juniors.

Also, the 3 on the current roster that are after 8/1 and HS Juniors are all committed to play in college.

So, what do you do? I think it's obvious that the 2010 and the other HS sophomores drop back and stay with their grade year teams. Not really a choice.

Bigger decision is what to do with the HS Juniors that are after 8/1? Do they drop play with the correct "age" group but not their school year? Hmm...tough choices.

As others have said, this change really didn't solve anything. Think it's creating more issues.

How is it a choice to follow league rules age groupings?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe all this is ANOTHER reason highest-level MLSN decided to stick with BY!

100% its one of the reasons.

With BY you completely avoid school start dates.

SY can work you just need to define the path for younger "force ups". Currently there is no guidance.

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Anonymous wrote:G2016 was speaking with another parent this weekend about the BY the SY change. He said its weird. I asked why he thinks its weird. He said my kid is an August birthday. I said wouldn't that make your kid the oldest on a SY team? My kid is a july birthday shes screwed. He said its weird that my daughter would be playing on a team with players that are a year behind her in school. I said if you think that it's weird just tell your club that you're not paying unless shes on a team with players her grade.

Interesting exchange you could tell he instinctively knew that playing down was an issue. But he couldnt figure out why. His oldest is being recruited for swimming right so Im sure he'll put the pieces together reguarding his youngest and playing on the correct grade team.

In summary, you finally met someone with an child with an August birthday but couldn't convince them that they should kick and scream to have their kid to play up because they are special, not based on skill but because they are special. And this person didn't buy it. That would check out

I'm the person that wrote this.

I was just trying to listen to see what they were thinking. I thought it was interesting to hear their perspective. I specifically thought it was interesting that they thought it was weird for their kid to play down on a team with younger grade in school players.

You seem to have issues.

Not believable. They didn't have a problem with their daughter playing on age, just thought it was a little odd, and then you told them to go to the club and demand that they allow the girl to play up an age group. That isn't just listening.

Maybe, but the word they used was "weird" not "a little odd" and I know this guy he's 100% into his older kid getting recruited to swim in college. He said weird because playing down a grade goes against everything he's researched for his older kid. I did tell him to tell the club if he wants his kid to play with their grade. He pays the bills. You dont have to be in a weird situation just because some coach wants a big kid on their g2016 team.

The travel club doesn't care about a kids grade

Only their age and skills

That is where you're wrong.

Parents foot the bill so its up to them to protect their Aug birthday kids from being exploited by clubs/coaches playing down for short term wins vs playing with their grade for long term development and college recruiting.

If I'm a coach, no parent can tell me to take their kid to play up on my team if they lack the quality just because of school grade

Yeah, some parents may get their moronic request to play up. Then the coach doesn't play the kid so the kid quits.

Only the dumb parents ask for their kid to play up if they aren't ready and it has nothing to do with grades.

Hahaha nobody ever since the beginning of time has ever had an issue with players asking to play with players their grade.

Nice try though.

Coaches and teams absolutely hold it against kids when parents ask for special treatment.

So special treatment is asking to play with kids in your grade?

You are insane.

No serious coach or club will entertain a request for a player to play up if that player doesn't have the quality to do so.
None

Every club will let a player play with kids their grade if they're an August birthday and a grade older.

No club is going to force a player to participate in a way that is against what they want to do.

Again, nice try though.

This is where rubber meets road. Kids will just quit if you force them into a situation they don't want. It's not worth the time OR money, especially if it means joining a new team after playing with the same people for years.

What is unfortunate is this transition is going to put people into situations that won't give them good choices. Older players who want to play up to stay on grade may have to see less playing time or drop to a lower team VS. joining a team with a bunch of people they really don't know/perhaps less experienced/skilled who might resent the playing time THEY take as a stronger player. I mean, maybe some good life lessons here BUT this is why, IMO, they should have phased in the switch with younger teams first and left the HS ages alone.

People talk like this is Kindergarten social groups play-dates

Tell your kid this is how the real world works and what they will face as adults

The cutoff has changed to 8/1 and this is your new age group.
Go to training and put in the work or be a quitter

Yep, and clubs will have to face the adult reality of fewer customers if they manage things poorly.

Your sense of entitlement has removed all objective logical reality from your mind

Imagine seriously thinking your kid should be on a MLS Next team because of their birth month and demand this of a club

What's out-of-whack is thinking every soccer parent thinks their kid is going to be a college star. Some parents just want a club they've played at for most of their lives to treat them fairly. Nothing more and if they don't, they'll struggle with their bottom line, because those kids and families will move on as they should.

Clubs have been making decisions forever that pains many entitled parents who think little Chad and Lizzy should get whatever they want because they pay the fees

The clubs are still thriving even after you left

By fairly, you mean in your favor to your liking

Clubs thriving? In the time I've watched this space, I've seen plenty of clubs go out of business or have to merge with others. I guess you missed all that. Ignore market forces at your peril.

You're claiming normal market behavior as a feather in your argument cap?

Banks fail, merge
Software companies fail, merge
Hospitals fail, merge
Airlines fail, merge

Nothing you say will make your kid playing up a reality if they're not good enough to do so. Which they're obviously not or you wouldn't be politicking for same grade teams

If Aug birthdays aren't good enough for the correct grade A team welcome to the correct grade B team. Pretty simple

Except you would have to find a team willing to break their own rules to let a non star to play up if it exists. Or find a team to play on age

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By and large, a kid with an August birthday in a Sept or later K start date should attempt to stay up and play with grade if possible. For recruiting, for social, etc. But there are exceptions.

Very weak older team and very strong younger team. Where do you get the best development opportunities.

Very late maturing kid who would get more "fair" play playing with the younger team

Extremely good Older team where they would not actually play much and a weaker younger team where they could get on the ball significantly more.

What people seem to forget is that recruiting is not only random scout at random showcase.

I cant emphasize enough that ID camps are one of the critical ways for kids to get seen by college of their choice. That is where coaches get to see them in a controlled environment, with coach dictated positions and match ups. And ID camps are by graduation year.

It is NOT cheating or skirting the system to play on a team that corresponds to your birthdate. It may be sub optimal for recruiting or social aspects but it is unequivocally not cheating.

The part that you're missing is there's always the option of playing on the correct grade B team. If an Aug birthday isn't good enough for the A team thats their grade it shouldn't be assumed that they're good enough for the grade down A team. This is what many people here seem to be assuming on this thread. Maybe you play down and only make the B team. What do you do then?

You do what clubs and leagues say to do, play in your age assigned group. You are inventing convoluted solutions for problems that only exist for you and your daughter.

Nothing is being invented. Below are the facts.

1. Play on a team with players your grade and your friends in school
2. Don't have a weird 9th grade where you play HS soccer but the rest of the team is in 8th grade.

These are the reasons Aug birthdays should play on a team thats their grade.
3. College recruiting will be 1000% easier

And yet you honestly say you don't want GY. Insane.

The only thing people dont like about GY is the holdbacks/regrades. If you could group by grade and everyone was born in a 12 month window GY would work. Unfortunately this is not reality and why GY ruins youth sports. Theres always a parent that wants to make their kid a star by playing against other kids 1-2 years younger.

SY 8/1-7/31 with a rule that younger players play with their grade is perfect. It's GY without the holdbacks.

They also don't like that states have different schools date cutoffs, no real documentation on grades exist, home schooled kids don't have official grades, grades can change for kids kids, clubs would struggle to collect grade info....and more. Anything toward grade year is problematic in a country where grades are inconsistent.

Thats why I keep saying "Leagues provide a recommendation that players play with their grade". You dont need to police the recommendation. Leagues just need to make it clear that they believe Aug (and younger) players that are a grade up should play with their grade level team. This is enough to shut the crazy person that keeps trying to normalize Aug birthdays playing down a grade.

Anonymous wrote:Maybe all this is ANOTHER reason highest-level MLSN decided to stick with BY!

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:G2016 was speaking with another parent this weekend about the BY the SY change. He said its weird. I asked why he thinks its weird. He said my kid is an August birthday. I said wouldn't that make your kid the oldest on a SY team? My kid is a july birthday shes screwed. He said its weird that my daughter would be playing on a team with players that are a year behind her in school. I said if you think that it's weird just tell your club that you're not paying unless shes on a team with players her grade.

Interesting exchange you could tell he instinctively knew that playing down was an issue. But he couldnt figure out why. His oldest is being recruited for swimming right so Im sure he'll put the pieces together reguarding his youngest and playing on the correct grade team.

In summary, you finally met someone with an child with an August birthday but couldn't convince them that they should kick and scream to have their kid to play up because they are special, not based on skill but because they are special. And this person didn't buy it. That would check out

I'm the person that wrote this.

I was just trying to listen to see what they were thinking. I thought it was interesting to hear their perspective. I specifically thought it was interesting that they thought it was weird for their kid to play down on a team with younger grade in school players.

You seem to have issues.

Not believable. They didn't have a problem with their daughter playing on age, just thought it was a little odd, and then you told them to go to the club and demand that they allow the girl to play up an age group. That isn't just listening.

Maybe, but the word they used was "weird" not "a little odd" and I know this guy he's 100% into his older kid getting recruited to swim in college. He said weird because playing down a grade goes against everything he's researched for his older kid. I did tell him to tell the club if he wants his kid to play with their grade. He pays the bills. You dont have to be in a weird situation just because some coach wants a big kid on their g2016 team.

The travel club doesn't care about a kids grade

Only their age and skills

That is where you're wrong.

Parents foot the bill so its up to them to protect their Aug birthday kids from being exploited by clubs/coaches playing down for short term wins vs playing with their grade for long term development and college recruiting.

If I'm a coach, no parent can tell me to take their kid to play up on my team if they lack the quality just because of school grade

Yeah, some parents may get their moronic request to play up. Then the coach doesn't play the kid so the kid quits.

Only the dumb parents ask for their kid to play up if they aren't ready and it has nothing to do with grades.

Hahaha nobody ever since the beginning of time has ever had an issue with players asking to play with players their grade.

Nice try though.

Coaches and teams absolutely hold it against kids when parents ask for special treatment.

So special treatment is asking to play with kids in your grade?

You are insane.

No serious coach or club will entertain a request for a player to play up if that player doesn't have the quality to do so.
None

Every club will let a player play with kids their grade if they're an August birthday and a grade older.

No club is going to force a player to participate in a way that is against what they want to do.

Again, nice try though.

This is where rubber meets road. Kids will just quit if you force them into a situation they don't want. It's not worth the time OR money, especially if it means joining a new team after playing with the same people for years.

What is unfortunate is this transition is going to put people into situations that won't give them good choices. Older players who want to play up to stay on grade may have to see less playing time or drop to a lower team VS. joining a team with a bunch of people they really don't know/perhaps less experienced/skilled who might resent the playing time THEY take as a stronger player. I mean, maybe some good life lessons here BUT this is why, IMO, they should have phased in the switch with younger teams first and left the HS ages alone.

People talk like this is Kindergarten social groups play-dates

Tell your kid this is how the real world works and what they will face as adults

The cutoff has changed to 8/1 and this is your new age group.
Go to training and put in the work or be a quitter

Yep, and clubs will have to face the adult reality of fewer customers if they manage things poorly.

Your sense of entitlement has removed all objective logical reality from your mind

Imagine seriously thinking your kid should be on a MLS Next team because of their birth month and demand this of a club

What's out-of-whack is thinking every soccer parent thinks their kid is going to be a college star. Some parents just want a club they've played at for most of their lives to treat them fairly. Nothing more and if they don't, they'll struggle with their bottom line, because those kids and families will move on as they should.

Clubs have been making decisions forever that pains many entitled parents who think little Chad and Lizzy should get whatever they want because they pay the fees

The clubs are still thriving even after you left

By fairly, you mean in your favor to your liking

Clubs thriving? In the time I've watched this space, I've seen plenty of clubs go out of business or have to merge with others. I guess you missed all that. Ignore market forces at your peril.

You're claiming normal market behavior as a feather in your argument cap?

Banks fail, merge
Software companies fail, merge
Hospitals fail, merge
Airlines fail, merge

Nothing you say will make your kid playing up a reality if they're not good enough to do so. Which they're obviously not or you wouldn't be politicking for same grade teams

If Aug birthdays aren't good enough for the correct grade A team welcome to the correct grade B team. Pretty simple

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD's team will be mixed up for sure next year and it will be interesting to see where things fall.

She is U17 currently, 2009 BY.

Current team is 18 players of the following:

1 Player 2010 BY, HS Sophomore
2 Players 2009 BY, after 8/1 HS Sophomores
3 Players 2009 BY, after 8/1 HS Juniors
12 Players, 2009 BY, before 8/1 HS Juniors

The 2008 team has I believe 4 girls that are after 8/1 but also HS Juniors.

Also, the 3 on the current roster that are after 8/1 and HS Juniors are all committed to play in college.

So, what do you do? I think it's obvious that the 2010 and the other HS sophomores drop back and stay with their grade year teams. Not really a choice.

Bigger decision is what to do with the HS Juniors that are after 8/1? Do they drop play with the correct "age" group but not their school year? Hmm...tough choices.

As others have said, this change really didn't solve anything. Think it's creating more issues.

More entitlement. Many players will need to be sent to second teams and many new players will need to be brought in. Solved it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD's team will be mixed up for sure next year and it will be interesting to see where things fall.

She is U17 currently, 2009 BY.

Current team is 18 players of the following:

1 Player 2010 BY, HS Sophomore
2 Players 2009 BY, after 8/1 HS Sophomores
3 Players 2009 BY, after 8/1 HS Juniors
12 Players, 2009 BY, before 8/1 HS Juniors

The 2008 team has I believe 4 girls that are after 8/1 but also HS Juniors.

Also, the 3 on the current roster that are after 8/1 and HS Juniors are all committed to play in college.

So, what do you do? I think it's obvious that the 2010 and the other HS sophomores drop back and stay with their grade year teams. Not really a choice.

Bigger decision is what to do with the HS Juniors that are after 8/1? Do they drop play with the correct "age" group but not their school year? Hmm...tough choices.

As others have said, this change really didn't solve anything. Think it's creating more issues.

Leagues should provide a rule or a recommendation that Aug and younger players play with their grade. This way Aug birthdays dont have an option that they choose from. Theres either a rule or a recommendation telling them to play with their grade.

If they do this all the nonsense goes away.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD's team will be mixed up for sure next year and it will be interesting to see where things fall.

She is U17 currently, 2009 BY.

Current team is 18 players of the following:

1 Player 2010 BY, HS Sophomore
2 Players 2009 BY, after 8/1 HS Sophomores
3 Players 2009 BY, after 8/1 HS Juniors
12 Players, 2009 BY, before 8/1 HS Juniors

The 2008 team has I believe 4 girls that are after 8/1 but also HS Juniors.

Also, the 3 on the current roster that are after 8/1 and HS Juniors are all committed to play in college.

So, what do you do? I think it's obvious that the 2010 and the other HS sophomores drop back and stay with their grade year teams. Not really a choice.

Bigger decision is what to do with the HS Juniors that are after 8/1? Do they drop play with the correct "age" group but not their school year? Hmm...tough choices.

As others have said, this change really didn't solve anything. Think it's creating more issues.

Leagues should provide a rule or a recommendation that Aug and younger players play with their grade. This way Aug birthdays dont have an option that they choose from. Theres either a rule or a recommendation telling them to play with their grade.

If they do this all the nonsense goes away.

They explicitly left this to the clubs discretion. Regardless of what you imagine, it will sometimes be better for an August birth to play a grade below, in fact, probably in 99% of cases. The other 1% can play up based on skill.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By and large, a kid with an August birthday in a Sept or later K start date should attempt to stay up and play with grade if possible. For recruiting, for social, etc. But there are exceptions.

Very weak older team and very strong younger team. Where do you get the best development opportunities.

Very late maturing kid who would get more "fair" play playing with the younger team

Extremely good Older team where they would not actually play much and a weaker younger team where they could get on the ball significantly more.

What people seem to forget is that recruiting is not only random scout at random showcase.

I cant emphasize enough that ID camps are one of the critical ways for kids to get seen by college of their choice. That is where coaches get to see them in a controlled environment, with coach dictated positions and match ups. And ID camps are by graduation year.

It is NOT cheating or skirting the system to play on a team that corresponds to your birthdate. It may be sub optimal for recruiting or social aspects but it is unequivocally not cheating.

The part that you're missing is there's always the option of playing on the correct grade B team. If an Aug birthday isn't good enough for the A team thats their grade it shouldn't be assumed that they're good enough for the grade down A team. This is what many people here seem to be assuming on this thread. Maybe you play down and only make the B team. What do you do then?

Anonymous wrote:The same grade guy will keep saying it no matter what

Responding to him is a waste of time

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By and large, a kid with an August birthday in a Sept or later K start date should attempt to stay up and play with grade if possible. For recruiting, for social, etc. But there are exceptions.

Very weak older team and very strong younger team. Where do you get the best development opportunities.

Very late maturing kid who would get more "fair" play playing with the younger team

Extremely good Older team where they would not actually play much and a weaker younger team where they could get on the ball significantly more.

What people seem to forget is that recruiting is not only random scout at random showcase.

I cant emphasize enough that ID camps are one of the critical ways for kids to get seen by college of their choice. That is where coaches get to see them in a controlled environment, with coach dictated positions and match ups. And ID camps are by graduation year.

It is NOT cheating or skirting the system to play on a team that corresponds to your birthdate. It may be sub optimal for recruiting or social aspects but it is unequivocally not cheating.

The part that you're missing is there's always the option of playing on the correct grade B team. If an Aug birthday isn't good enough for the A team thats their grade it shouldn't be assumed that they're good enough for the grade down A team. This is what many people here seem to be assuming on this thread. Maybe you play down and only make the B team. What do you do then?

You do what clubs and leagues say to do, play in your age assigned group. You are inventing convoluted solutions for problems that only exist for you and your daughter.

Nothing is being invented. Below are the facts.

1. Play on a team with players your grade and your friends in school
2. Don't have a weird 9th grade where you play HS soccer but the rest of the team is in 8th grade.

These are the reasons Aug birthdays should play on a team thats their grade.
3. College recruiting will be 1000% easier

And yet you honestly say you don't want GY. Insane.

The only thing people dont like about GY is the holdbacks/regrades. If you could group by grade and everyone was born in a 12 month window GY would work. Unfortunately this is not reality and why GY ruins youth sports. Theres always a parent that wants to make their kid a star by playing against other kids 1-2 years younger.

SY 8/1-7/31 with a rule that younger players play with their grade is perfect. It's GY without the holdbacks.

They also don't like that states have different schools date cutoffs, no real documentation on grades exist, home schooled kids don't have official grades, grades can change for kids kids, clubs would struggle to collect grade info....and more. Anything toward grade year is problematic in a country where grades are inconsistent.