Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My daughter is one of the top players in her age group and she will not be playing for Metro or Paramount despite being recruited by both. The blunt and honest reason why: Metro practice is too far, Paramount coaching style is not what we want for our DD, nor does she.

Can you say something more about "Paramount coaching style"? We are new to club volleyball and would appreciate anything you can share about the clubs around here.

If you are new to club volleyball, you should not worry too much about Paramount - your DD is unlikely to make one of their teams. There are always exceptions, but they are rare. Consider Paramount if your DD is very young or very tall and athletic.

How do you know my DD is not very young, very tall, or very athletic?

Parents who are new to volleyball (and probably other sports as well) tend to be clueless about their kids' skills and abilities. I've been there myself and made pretty poor decisions early on. I am still making poor decisions, but now I know for sure that my DD doesn't have any chance of playing for Metro or Paramount. And MVSA. And I could add a few more on the list, but I will stop here.

Haha. I am getting there myself (new poster). When my daughter started playing in middle school I thought, hey! here’s something she’s really pretty good at, better than her peers, even! And I had delusions about MVSA and Metro etc. But now that she’s a rising sophomore, and have watched IG reels of D3 players, I realize she’s good but not great and will probably continue playing in college on a club-level team. I mean, I don’t want to see her short, but I laughed when I read your post because it seemed like me! I follow this forum, though, because I’m trying to find a MD club that isn’t Metro but that’s mid-level. The knowledgeable folks on here are too deep in it, though, and I haven’t actually gotten great info. Plz share if you know of good mid-level clubs in MD/DC!!

I think the obvious place to start for mid-level club in MD/DC is MOCO. They practice in mostly close-in Montgomery County and have grown quite a bit in the past few years. The club director/founder was a long time MVSA coach so it has some aspects that resemble MVSA. Specifically, lower prices and lots of parent involvement, including some coaches. Because they have grown pretty quickly, the consensus seems to be as they have had to find more coaches, there can be a lot of variability in the quality of coaching between teams. Some are great and others less so.

Another close-in MD/DC accessible option is Metro Central. The Central teams are generally similar in level to MVSA 2s teams. Other options might be DMV (which is the Maryland branch of Vienna Elite in Rockville) although I've heard mixed things about the quality of coaching and the pricing is pretty high. Academy was started by a former MOCO coach with good credentials but I think the club is still pretty small and don't have teams at every age group.

If you're willing to venture further out, there are more Maryland options, but what's practical really depends on where you live and how far you are willing to travel for practice.

Good advice, two minor adjustments.

- Metro Central is probably closer to or even below MVSA 3s, especially at U16. I don't think there was any age group where Central outperformed MVSA 3s last year. Central tends to be on the lower end of the Metro regional teams in general.

- MOCO is good especially if you are close in to the city. MOCO 1s are generally not mid-tier though -- making one of those teams generally puts you in the top 10-15% of teams in the region, and their 1s teams generally compete at the open level regionally and in the same divisions as MVSA/MD Jrs/VA Jrs, etc in travel tournaments.

For your specific age (U16 if your DD is a sophomore) MOCO 2s/3s, Metro Central, MEVC 1s/2s, and MVSA 3s would be good goals to shoot for. Next options are Platform and Academy.

There is some coaching variability at the 2s/3s level at every club, including those listed above -- its the nature of the beast in club volleyball. The good news is the variability tends to settle down at the U15+ age groups. You generally will have coaches with some experience -- its tough to coach HS age players and not have a good understanding of how to coach. But I'd always make sure to meet and talk with the coach before tryouts (using at the club clinics in October) to make sure you get a good understanding of their credentials.

I'm the PP both of the posters here were replying to, and I THANK YOU SO MUCH! This is super helpful and I will encourage my daughter to try out for these teams (except for Platform, which I haven't heard good things about just anecdotally, from parents on the sidelines). MoCo, Metro Central, MEVC, MVSA and Academy. Now let's see if we can make that work come tryouts weekend!

Thanks to all of you more experienced VB parents for posting on here. We (relative) newbies really appreciate it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If you want to get into the nitty-gritty, the MOCO fees across all age groups vary between 132% and 263% of MVSA fees, with an average of 188%. I agree that I should have said "almost twice" instead of "at least twice." But there's no doubt that the prices do not resemble MVSA, as suggested earlier. For some reason I expected the "market" to come back in the reply. None of the parents I know try to find excuses for clubs to charge them as much as they possibly can. It appears that there are a lot of them on this forum, unless there is another explanation. For example, club representatives who cultivate the feeling that they should be allowed to charge as much as they want because of the demand.

Not a club representative, nor a parent of a player at either club. I agree with your premise that club volleyball is expensive and we'd like it to cost less. But since we don't set the prices, every year before tryouts we sit down with our DD to compare club costs. Its an exercise we use to make sure she understands how much we are spending and what she will be getting in return for a lot of money. I posted a portion of that analysis in the Volleyball Action thread: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/150/1219014.page

IMHO, arguing that MOCO is too expensive compared to other clubs is the wrong argument to make. MVSA and MOCO are bargains compared to many others clubs and attacking them for unreasonable prices probably won't do anything except make them wonder why they even try to keep prices low when all their competitors are much higher. If anything my "market" concern is what happens if they raise prices? It feels like MVSA, MOCO, MEVC, etc. are the only thing stopping the other MD clubs from raising prices to match the VA prices.

For comparison, here are the base prices of the top teams in the DMV at U14 last year, by regional rank and price. Some of them have add-ons like uniform purchases to actually play, including Metro & MD Juniors, and I believe MVSA has fewer practices and doesn't include nationals costs.
1. Metro Travel - ~$5,000 (not online anymore)
2. MDJrs - $4,850
3. Paramount - $6,400
4. MOCO - $3,600
5. VA Juniors - $5,990
6. MVSA - $2,050

FYI: We also compared tryout fees. MVSA was ~60, MOCO was ~72, MDJrs was around $65. Could be off a bit but I don't have the spreadsheet handy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My daughter is one of the top players in her age group and she will not be playing for Metro or Paramount despite being recruited by both. The blunt and honest reason why: Metro practice is too far, Paramount coaching style is not what we want for our DD, nor does she.

Can you say something more about "Paramount coaching style"? We are new to club volleyball and would appreciate anything you can share about the clubs around here.

If you are new to club volleyball, you should not worry too much about Paramount - your DD is unlikely to make one of their teams. There are always exceptions, but they are rare. Consider Paramount if your DD is very young or very tall and athletic.

How do you know my DD is not very young, very tall, or very athletic?

Parents who are new to volleyball (and probably other sports as well) tend to be clueless about their kids' skills and abilities. I've been there myself and made pretty poor decisions early on. I am still making poor decisions, but now I know for sure that my DD doesn't have any chance of playing for Metro or Paramount. And MVSA. And I could add a few more on the list, but I will stop here.

Haha. I am getting there myself (new poster). When my daughter started playing in middle school I thought, hey! here’s something she’s really pretty good at, better than her peers, even! And I had delusions about MVSA and Metro etc. But now that she’s a rising sophomore, and have watched IG reels of D3 players, I realize she’s good but not great and will probably continue playing in college on a club-level team. I mean, I don’t want to see her short, but I laughed when I read your post because it seemed like me! I follow this forum, though, because I’m trying to find a MD club that isn’t Metro but that’s mid-level. The knowledgeable folks on here are too deep in it, though, and I haven’t actually gotten great info. Plz share if you know of good mid-level clubs in MD/DC!!

I think the obvious place to start for mid-level club in MD/DC is MOCO. They practice in mostly close-in Montgomery County and have grown quite a bit in the past few years. The club director/founder was a long time MVSA coach so it has some aspects that resemble MVSA. Specifically, lower prices and lots of parent involvement, including some coaches. Because they have grown pretty quickly, the consensus seems to be as they have had to find more coaches, there can be a lot of variability in the quality of coaching between teams. Some are great and others less so.

Another close-in MD/DC accessible option is Metro Central. The Central teams are generally similar in level to MVSA 2s teams. Other options might be DMV (which is the Maryland branch of Vienna Elite in Rockville) although I've heard mixed things about the quality of coaching and the pricing is pretty high. Academy was started by a former MOCO coach with good credentials but I think the club is still pretty small and don't have teams at every age group.

If you're willing to venture further out, there are more Maryland options, but what's practical really depends on where you live and how far you are willing to travel for practice.

Good advice, two minor adjustments.

- Metro Central is probably closer to or even below MVSA 3s, especially at U16. I don't think there was any age group where Central outperformed MVSA 3s last year. Central tends to be on the lower end of the Metro regional teams in general.

- MOCO is good especially if you are close in to the city. MOCO 1s are generally not mid-tier though -- making one of those teams generally puts you in the top 10-15% of teams in the region, and their 1s teams generally compete at the open level regionally and in the same divisions as MVSA/MD Jrs/VA Jrs, etc in travel tournaments.

For your specific age (U16 if your DD is a sophomore) MOCO 2s/3s, Metro Central, MEVC 1s/2s, and MVSA 3s would be good goals to shoot for. Next options are Platform and Academy.

There is some coaching variability at the 2s/3s level at every club, including those listed above -- its the nature of the beast in club volleyball. The good news is the variability tends to settle down at the U15+ age groups. You generally will have coaches with some experience -- its tough to coach HS age players and not have a good understanding of how to coach. But I'd always make sure to meet and talk with the coach before tryouts (using at the club clinics in October) to make sure you get a good understanding of their credentials.

Anonymous wrote:

If you want to get into the nitty-gritty, the MOCO fees across all age groups vary between 132% and 263% of MVSA fees, with an average of 188%. I agree that I should have said "almost twice" instead of "at least twice." But there's no doubt that the prices do not resemble MVSA, as suggested earlier. For some reason I expected the "market" to come back in the reply. None of the parents I know try to find excuses for clubs to charge them as much as they possibly can. It appears that there are a lot of them on this forum, unless there is another explanation. For example, club representatives who cultivate the feeling that they should be allowed to charge as much as they want because of the demand.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My daughter is one of the top players in her age group and she will not be playing for Metro or Paramount despite being recruited by both. The blunt and honest reason why: Metro practice is too far, Paramount coaching style is not what we want for our DD, nor does she.

Can you say something more about "Paramount coaching style"? We are new to club volleyball and would appreciate anything you can share about the clubs around here.

If you are new to club volleyball, you should not worry too much about Paramount - your DD is unlikely to make one of their teams. There are always exceptions, but they are rare. Consider Paramount if your DD is very young or very tall and athletic.

How do you know my DD is not very young, very tall, or very athletic?

Parents who are new to volleyball (and probably other sports as well) tend to be clueless about their kids' skills and abilities. I've been there myself and made pretty poor decisions early on. I am still making poor decisions, but now I know for sure that my DD doesn't have any chance of playing for Metro or Paramount. And MVSA. And I could add a few more on the list, but I will stop here.

Haha. I am getting there myself (new poster). When my daughter started playing in middle school I thought, hey! here’s something she’s really pretty good at, better than her peers, even! And I had delusions about MVSA and Metro etc. But now that she’s a rising sophomore, and have watched IG reels of D3 players, I realize she’s good but not great and will probably continue playing in college on a club-level team. I mean, I don’t want to see her short, but I laughed when I read your post because it seemed like me! I follow this forum, though, because I’m trying to find a MD club that isn’t Metro but that’s mid-level. The knowledgeable folks on here are too deep in it, though, and I haven’t actually gotten great info. Plz share if you know of good mid-level clubs in MD/DC!!

I think the obvious place to start for mid-level club in MD/DC is MOCO. They practice in mostly close-in Montgomery County and have grown quite a bit in the past few years. The club director/founder was a long time MVSA coach so it has some aspects that resemble MVSA. Specifically, lower prices and lots of parent involvement, including some coaches. Because they have grown pretty quickly, the consensus seems to be as they have had to find more coaches, there can be a lot of variability in the quality of coaching between teams. Some are great and others less so.

Another close-in MD/DC accessible option is Metro Central. The Central teams are generally similar in level to MVSA 2s teams. Other options might be DMV (which is the Maryland branch of Vienna Elite in Rockville) although I've heard mixed things about the quality of coaching and the pricing is pretty high. Academy was started by a former MOCO coach with good credentials but I think the club is still pretty small and don't have teams at every age group.

If you're willing to venture further out, there are more Maryland options, but what's practical really depends on where you live and how far you are willing to travel for practice.

It's funny you say that because MOCO fees are at least twice if not three times larger than those in MVSA. MOCO started because the MVSA model (non-profit, volunteer coaches) was not a money maker. Just look at how much MOCO charges for clinics. MOCO tryouts are the most expensive in the area. DMV is a joke - this is an attempt to export Virginia club volleyball prices in Maryland. They get players who cannot make any other club in Maryland (and whose parents are willing to shovel money in their direction).

I was referring to club fees. The highest MOCO club fee is $3600 for 1s teams from 14s-17s. The MVSA fees for 1s teams at these same age groups are 14s at $2050 and 15s-17s at $2350. So yes, MOCO is absolutely more than MVSA but not double, much less three times. And MVSA is pretty much the biggest bargain in CHRVA club volleyball when you look at the results and quality of training compared to their fees. Duplicating what MVSA does would require finding a lot of people to give significant amounts of their time for no compensation, which is a pretty tall order and I would be surprised if anyone were to take that on now. Meanwhile, clubs like DMV Elite just up the road in Rockville are charging $7200 and have seemingly weaker teams. MEVC has similar fees to MOCO. Platforms fees look slightly lower but they charge separately for uniforms so it ends up pretty close as well. MDJRs is way more expensive than MOCO.

As far as the cost for clinics, camps, tryouts, leagues, etc, I've heard from more than one club owner/director that camps and clinics are where they make their living. While some money is made from club fees, the margins are relatively low compared what they can make on a clinic or camp. MOCO pretty consistently fills their clinics, camps, and leagues and has a waiting list so the demand is there for what they are offering. It would be nice if it were cheaper for parents, but as has been said many times on these forums, other than MVSA, these clubs are businesses who exist to make a profit and the fact that the services being offered are in high demand suggests they are priced at a level that the market will support.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My daughter is one of the top players in her age group and she will not be playing for Metro or Paramount despite being recruited by both. The blunt and honest reason why: Metro practice is too far, Paramount coaching style is not what we want for our DD, nor does she.

Can you say something more about "Paramount coaching style"? We are new to club volleyball and would appreciate anything you can share about the clubs around here.

If you are new to club volleyball, you should not worry too much about Paramount - your DD is unlikely to make one of their teams. There are always exceptions, but they are rare. Consider Paramount if your DD is very young or very tall and athletic.

How do you know my DD is not very young, very tall, or very athletic?

Parents who are new to volleyball (and probably other sports as well) tend to be clueless about their kids' skills and abilities. I've been there myself and made pretty poor decisions early on. I am still making poor decisions, but now I know for sure that my DD doesn't have any chance of playing for Metro or Paramount. And MVSA. And I could add a few more on the list, but I will stop here.

Haha. I am getting there myself (new poster). When my daughter started playing in middle school I thought, hey! here’s something she’s really pretty good at, better than her peers, even! And I had delusions about MVSA and Metro etc. But now that she’s a rising sophomore, and have watched IG reels of D3 players, I realize she’s good but not great and will probably continue playing in college on a club-level team. I mean, I don’t want to see her short, but I laughed when I read your post because it seemed like me! I follow this forum, though, because I’m trying to find a MD club that isn’t Metro but that’s mid-level. The knowledgeable folks on here are too deep in it, though, and I haven’t actually gotten great info. Plz share if you know of good mid-level clubs in MD/DC!!

I think the obvious place to start for mid-level club in MD/DC is MOCO. They practice in mostly close-in Montgomery County and have grown quite a bit in the past few years. The club director/founder was a long time MVSA coach so it has some aspects that resemble MVSA. Specifically, lower prices and lots of parent involvement, including some coaches. Because they have grown pretty quickly, the consensus seems to be as they have had to find more coaches, there can be a lot of variability in the quality of coaching between teams. Some are great and others less so.

Another close-in MD/DC accessible option is Metro Central. The Central teams are generally similar in level to MVSA 2s teams. Other options might be DMV (which is the Maryland branch of Vienna Elite in Rockville) although I've heard mixed things about the quality of coaching and the pricing is pretty high. Academy was started by a former MOCO coach with good credentials but I think the club is still pretty small and don't have teams at every age group.

If you're willing to venture further out, there are more Maryland options, but what's practical really depends on where you live and how far you are willing to travel for practice.

It's funny you say that because MOCO fees are at least twice if not three times larger than those in MVSA. MOCO started because the MVSA model (non-profit, volunteer coaches) was not a money maker. Just look at how much MOCO charges for clinics. MOCO tryouts are the most expensive in the area. DMV is a joke - this is an attempt to export Virginia club volleyball prices in Maryland. They get players who cannot make any other club in Maryland (and whose parents are willing to shovel money in their direction).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My daughter is one of the top players in her age group and she will not be playing for Metro or Paramount despite being recruited by both. The blunt and honest reason why: Metro practice is too far, Paramount coaching style is not what we want for our DD, nor does she.

Can you say something more about "Paramount coaching style"? We are new to club volleyball and would appreciate anything you can share about the clubs around here.

If you are new to club volleyball, you should not worry too much about Paramount - your DD is unlikely to make one of their teams. There are always exceptions, but they are rare. Consider Paramount if your DD is very young or very tall and athletic.

How do you know my DD is not very young, very tall, or very athletic?

Parents who are new to volleyball (and probably other sports as well) tend to be clueless about their kids' skills and abilities. I've been there myself and made pretty poor decisions early on. I am still making poor decisions, but now I know for sure that my DD doesn't have any chance of playing for Metro or Paramount. And MVSA. And I could add a few more on the list, but I will stop here.

Haha. I am getting there myself (new poster). When my daughter started playing in middle school I thought, hey! here’s something she’s really pretty good at, better than her peers, even! And I had delusions about MVSA and Metro etc. But now that she’s a rising sophomore, and have watched IG reels of D3 players, I realize she’s good but not great and will probably continue playing in college on a club-level team. I mean, I don’t want to see her short, but I laughed when I read your post because it seemed like me! I follow this forum, though, because I’m trying to find a MD club that isn’t Metro but that’s mid-level. The knowledgeable folks on here are too deep in it, though, and I haven’t actually gotten great info. Plz share if you know of good mid-level clubs in MD/DC!!

I think the obvious place to start for mid-level club in MD/DC is MOCO. They practice in mostly close-in Montgomery County and have grown quite a bit in the past few years. The club director/founder was a long time MVSA coach so it has some aspects that resemble MVSA. Specifically, lower prices and lots of parent involvement, including some coaches. Because they have grown pretty quickly, the consensus seems to be as they have had to find more coaches, there can be a lot of variability in the quality of coaching between teams. Some are great and others less so.

Another close-in MD/DC accessible option is Metro Central. The Central teams are generally similar in level to MVSA 2s teams. Other options might be DMV (which is the Maryland branch of Vienna Elite in Rockville) although I've heard mixed things about the quality of coaching and the pricing is pretty high. Academy was started by a former MOCO coach with good credentials but I think the club is still pretty small and don't have teams at every age group.

If you're willing to venture further out, there are more Maryland options, but what's practical really depends on where you live and how far you are willing to travel for practice.