Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing about the dancing scene:

While I will admit I am one of the people who does think she looks uncomfortable and is pulling away in that footage, I agree with people who don't think what we see in that footage rises to the level of harassment. On its own, it just looks like they don't agree on how the scene should be filmed and don't like each other much, but it doesn't look like harassment.

However:

In Lively's complaint, she says that after they filmed that scene, she voiced her issues with the way Justin handled it and he responded by saying "I'm not even attracted to you." I think that context is more problematic than what we see in the camera footage, because if Lively expressed her discomfort with the amount of physicality in the scene, or the fact that it wasn't discussed beforehand, and that was Justin's response, that *is* getting into sexual harassment territory for me.

But all we have is her allegation, I'd want to hear from witnesses, etc. I'm just pointing out that focusing just on what we see on camera leaves out context that might ultimately be very important. Obviously, they are playing intimate partners in the movie. There will be physical touching. But if Justin spoke that way during a professional discussion about the physical intimacy in the movie, this is concerning to me. That is not professional or appropriate.

This isn’t Schrodinger’s sexual harassment. You can’t say “nah maybe it isn’t but wait, I dont like what he said to her afterwards, so that retroactively makes him a sexual predator.” This is playing fast and loose with the definition and attempting to trap him based on the way he handled things, and it’s ridiculous. You’re allowed to dislike him for that, but you can’t just then start going around and calling him a sexual harasser. Ridiculous, ridiculous, ridiculous.

Anonymous wrote:One thing about the dancing scene:

While I will admit I am one of the people who does think she looks uncomfortable and is pulling away in that footage, I agree with people who don't think what we see in that footage rises to the level of harassment. On its own, it just looks like they don't agree on how the scene should be filmed and don't like each other much, but it doesn't look like harassment.

However:

In Lively's complaint, she says that after they filmed that scene, she voiced her issues with the way Justin handled it and he responded by saying "I'm not even attracted to you." I think that context is more problematic than what we see in the camera footage, because if Lively expressed her discomfort with the amount of physicality in the scene, or the fact that it wasn't discussed beforehand, and that was Justin's response, that *is* getting into sexual harassment territory for me.

But all we have is her allegation, I'd want to hear from witnesses, etc. I'm just pointing out that focusing just on what we see on camera leaves out context that might ultimately be very important. Obviously, they are playing intimate partners in the movie. There will be physical touching. But if Justin spoke that way during a professional discussion about the physical intimacy in the movie, this is concerning to me. That is not professional or appropriate.

In Lively's complaint, she says that after they filmed that scene, she voiced her issues with the way Justin handled it and he responded by saying "I'm not even attracted to you." I think that context is more problematic than what we see in the camera footage, because if Lively expressed her discomfort with the amount of physicality in the scene, or the fact that it wasn't discussed beforehand, and that was Justin's response, that *is* getting into sexual harassment territory for me.

Anonymous wrote:One thing about the dancing scene:

While I will admit I am one of the people who does think she looks uncomfortable and is pulling away in that footage, I agree with people who don't think what we see in that footage rises to the level of harassment. On its own, it just looks like they don't agree on how the scene should be filmed and don't like each other much, but it doesn't look like harassment.

However:

In Lively's complaint, she says that after they filmed that scene, she voiced her issues with the way Justin handled it and he responded by saying "I'm not even attracted to you." I think that context is more problematic than what we see in the camera footage, because if Lively expressed her discomfort with the amount of physicality in the scene, or the fact that it wasn't discussed beforehand, and that was Justin's response, that *is* getting into sexual harassment territory for me.

But all we have is her allegation, I'd want to hear from witnesses, etc. I'm just pointing out that focusing just on what we see on camera leaves out context that might ultimately be very important. Obviously, they are playing intimate partners in the movie. There will be physical touching. But if Justin spoke that way during a professional discussion about the physical intimacy in the movie, this is concerning to me. That is not professional or appropriate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1) I still don't think it's a coincidence that the only place Blake didn't have trouble with Justin during the first half of the movie was on the plane with her children. Twisting claims about the plane ride would be a bridge too far for her, especially because it could involve her children having to give testimony.

2) For those of us who do believe she lied about being SH'd, I do wonder why she stopped with the claims during the second half of the movie? Just out of curiosity, I'm wondering why not just continue twisting things?

PP answering my own questions now, but I guess it's because she got what she wanted. That's the thing though: Justin Baldoni is apparently such a sex pest and lacks such self-preservation instincts that he's willing to harass the wife of one of the most powerful men in Hollywood, but he magically stops during the second half of the movie? If he was brazen enough to lack self-control during the first half of the movie, he wouldn't magically stop during the second half. If anyone can truly be harassed by anyone, then we'd have to concede that fact patterns don't matter and sexual harassment is not worthy of academic study. It's not worth looking into any patterns because any man could start spontaneously harassing you. If people truly believed this, I think this would ironically discourage people from looking into any "red flags," making them even more unsafe.

Maybe I'm not the right person to ask because I think it probably wasn't at the level of SH but I can see a scenario where she thought he was being creepy or weird, she complained, and in part because of who she's married to, and because of the 17 points, he was then extremely careful to basically not do anything even close to the behavior she complained about.

I think this is what happened as well. Also haven't we heard rumors that Ryan was on set for much of the second half of filming? Prior to that he was not there because he was filming his own movie, but post-strike he was in NY and could have been more present. That would change power dynamics a lot, I imagine. You do wonder if some of the stuff that she alleges happened early in shooting (especially the apparent conflict over touching in the dancing scene, and the debate over the birth scene) would have unfolded the same way if Ryan had been around. I'm betting not.

Pp. I don't think Ryan would have changed anything in the dance scene because IMO, in the video, Justin is literally doing nothing wrong. I think he would act the same in front of her husband because in the video he acts like a man who knows he is being filmed. Which he is. You are probably one of the people who thinks Blake was uncomfortable and pulling away, and I won't presume to read her mind, but objectively that doesn't meet a reasonable person standard. Birth scene, I don't know because their accounts differ and the only other person who spoke out is his actor friend. Would need to see video or hear from someone on the crew who is neutral or works with Blake like her assistant.

“Objectively that doesn’t meet a reasonable person standard” lol 👌

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1) I still don't think it's a coincidence that the only place Blake didn't have trouble with Justin during the first half of the movie was on the plane with her children. Twisting claims about the plane ride would be a bridge too far for her, especially because it could involve her children having to give testimony.

2) For those of us who do believe she lied about being SH'd, I do wonder why she stopped with the claims during the second half of the movie? Just out of curiosity, I'm wondering why not just continue twisting things?

PP answering my own questions now, but I guess it's because she got what she wanted. That's the thing though: Justin Baldoni is apparently such a sex pest and lacks such self-preservation instincts that he's willing to harass the wife of one of the most powerful men in Hollywood, but he magically stops during the second half of the movie? If he was brazen enough to lack self-control during the first half of the movie, he wouldn't magically stop during the second half. If anyone can truly be harassed by anyone, then we'd have to concede that fact patterns don't matter and sexual harassment is not worthy of academic study. It's not worth looking into any patterns because any man could start spontaneously harassing you. If people truly believed this, I think this would ironically discourage people from looking into any "red flags," making them even more unsafe.

I don't get the sense that Lively's allegations are that Justin is a "sex pest" who lacks self control. She's not suing him for sexual assault and her complaint doesn't indicate that she felt he was trying to hit on her or have sex with her.

It's a hostile work environment claim. Her argument is that his behavior on the set and in their working relationship was sexually inappropriate, boundary violating, and sometimes sexist in a way that made it hard for her to do her job. I think people get the "sex pest" idea because of the allegations from Justin that Ryan called him a sexual predator. But Blake's complaint doesn't make him sound like a sexual predator at all. It makes him sound kind of tone deaf and chauvinist at times, and the stuff around the birth scene in particular indicates he may have some attitudes about women that made women on the set feel uncomfortable or not listened to. The alleged incident with Jenny Slate is in the same vein -- Heath supposedly said something that felt diminishing or judgmental regarding working moms (very unclear what exactly happened but that's the gist I can get).

Anyway, the allegations are that Baldoni and Heath were inappropriate and made people uncomfortable, not that they were sex pests. That can still be sexual harassment. I really don't know if what happened on this set rose to that level, and neither do you, but it's important to understand the nature of what is being alleged. At no point does Lively allege that Baldoni was coming on to her, only that his behavior was sexually charged and gendered in a way that made her feel uncomfortable to a degree that interfered with her ability to do her job.

Agree. And, re a different PP's subsequent post, no we need not "view it all through the lens of her being a control freak." Maybe that's just an extra ingredient you're adding that isn't actually called for in the original recipe.

It is for those of us living in the real world. Maybe not for those of us who think talking about someone's dead dad is sexual harassment.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1) I still don't think it's a coincidence that the only place Blake didn't have trouble with Justin during the first half of the movie was on the plane with her children. Twisting claims about the plane ride would be a bridge too far for her, especially because it could involve her children having to give testimony.

2) For those of us who do believe she lied about being SH'd, I do wonder why she stopped with the claims during the second half of the movie? Just out of curiosity, I'm wondering why not just continue twisting things?

PP answering my own questions now, but I guess it's because she got what she wanted. That's the thing though: Justin Baldoni is apparently such a sex pest and lacks such self-preservation instincts that he's willing to harass the wife of one of the most powerful men in Hollywood, but he magically stops during the second half of the movie? If he was brazen enough to lack self-control during the first half of the movie, he wouldn't magically stop during the second half. If anyone can truly be harassed by anyone, then we'd have to concede that fact patterns don't matter and sexual harassment is not worthy of academic study. It's not worth looking into any patterns because any man could start spontaneously harassing you. If people truly believed this, I think this would ironically discourage people from looking into any "red flags," making them even more unsafe.

Maybe I'm not the right person to ask because I think it probably wasn't at the level of SH but I can see a scenario where she thought he was being creepy or weird, she complained, and in part because of who she's married to, and because of the 17 points, he was then extremely careful to basically not do anything even close to the behavior she complained about.

I think this is what happened as well. Also haven't we heard rumors that Ryan was on set for much of the second half of filming? Prior to that he was not there because he was filming his own movie, but post-strike he was in NY and could have been more present. That would change power dynamics a lot, I imagine. You do wonder if some of the stuff that she alleges happened early in shooting (especially the apparent conflict over touching in the dancing scene, and the debate over the birth scene) would have unfolded the same way if Ryan had been around. I'm betting not.

Pp. I don't think Ryan would have changed anything in the dance scene because IMO, in the video, Justin is literally doing nothing wrong. I think he would act the same in front of her husband because in the video he acts like a man who knows he is being filmed. Which he is. You are probably one of the people who thinks Blake was uncomfortable and pulling away, and I won't presume to read her mind, but objectively that doesn't meet a reasonable person standard. Birth scene, I don't know because their accounts differ and the only other person who spoke out is his actor friend. Would need to see video or hear from someone on the crew who is neutral or works with Blake like her assistant.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1) I still don't think it's a coincidence that the only place Blake didn't have trouble with Justin during the first half of the movie was on the plane with her children. Twisting claims about the plane ride would be a bridge too far for her, especially because it could involve her children having to give testimony.

2) For those of us who do believe she lied about being SH'd, I do wonder why she stopped with the claims during the second half of the movie? Just out of curiosity, I'm wondering why not just continue twisting things?

PP answering my own questions now, but I guess it's because she got what she wanted. That's the thing though: Justin Baldoni is apparently such a sex pest and lacks such self-preservation instincts that he's willing to harass the wife of one of the most powerful men in Hollywood, but he magically stops during the second half of the movie? If he was brazen enough to lack self-control during the first half of the movie, he wouldn't magically stop during the second half. If anyone can truly be harassed by anyone, then we'd have to concede that fact patterns don't matter and sexual harassment is not worthy of academic study. It's not worth looking into any patterns because any man could start spontaneously harassing you. If people truly believed this, I think this would ironically discourage people from looking into any "red flags," making them even more unsafe.

She got what she wanted, which was control of the movie editing. She didn't get upset again until she started getting bad press when the movie came out.

Adding, one must view it all through the lens of her being a control freak. Watch the TikToks where she is futzing with her costars during publicity shots or telling the waiter how to pour her drink.

She also does the weird futzing thing on the red carpet. It's so performative, like she always has to be doing something. Pulling someone into the shot, going over to another costar to hold their hands, moving people around in the shot, adjusting their wardrobe, etc. She wants to be a director so badly, I don't understand why Ryan didn't just help her finance her own project. She was attached to a movie called "Seconds," written by Edgar Wright. I don't know what happened with that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1) I still don't think it's a coincidence that the only place Blake didn't have trouble with Justin during the first half of the movie was on the plane with her children. Twisting claims about the plane ride would be a bridge too far for her, especially because it could involve her children having to give testimony.

2) For those of us who do believe she lied about being SH'd, I do wonder why she stopped with the claims during the second half of the movie? Just out of curiosity, I'm wondering why not just continue twisting things?

PP answering my own questions now, but I guess it's because she got what she wanted. That's the thing though: Justin Baldoni is apparently such a sex pest and lacks such self-preservation instincts that he's willing to harass the wife of one of the most powerful men in Hollywood, but he magically stops during the second half of the movie? If he was brazen enough to lack self-control during the first half of the movie, he wouldn't magically stop during the second half. If anyone can truly be harassed by anyone, then we'd have to concede that fact patterns don't matter and sexual harassment is not worthy of academic study. It's not worth looking into any patterns because any man could start spontaneously harassing you. If people truly believed this, I think this would ironically discourage people from looking into any "red flags," making them even more unsafe.

I don't get the sense that Lively's allegations are that Justin is a "sex pest" who lacks self control. She's not suing him for sexual assault and her complaint doesn't indicate that she felt he was trying to hit on her or have sex with her.

It's a hostile work environment claim. Her argument is that his behavior on the set and in their working relationship was sexually inappropriate, boundary violating, and sometimes sexist in a way that made it hard for her to do her job. I think people get the "sex pest" idea because of the allegations from Justin that Ryan called him a sexual predator. But Blake's complaint doesn't make him sound like a sexual predator at all. It makes him sound kind of tone deaf and chauvinist at times, and the stuff around the birth scene in particular indicates he may have some attitudes about women that made women on the set feel uncomfortable or not listened to. The alleged incident with Jenny Slate is in the same vein -- Heath supposedly said something that felt diminishing or judgmental regarding working moms (very unclear what exactly happened but that's the gist I can get).

Anyway, the allegations are that Baldoni and Heath were inappropriate and made people uncomfortable, not that they were sex pests. That can still be sexual harassment. I really don't know if what happened on this set rose to that level, and neither do you, but it's important to understand the nature of what is being alleged. At no point does Lively allege that Baldoni was coming on to her, only that his behavior was sexually charged and gendered in a way that made her feel uncomfortable to a degree that interfered with her ability to do her job.

Agree. And, re a different PP's subsequent post, no we need not "view it all through the lens of her being a control freak." Maybe that's just an extra ingredient you're adding that isn't actually called for in the original recipe.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1) I still don't think it's a coincidence that the only place Blake didn't have trouble with Justin during the first half of the movie was on the plane with her children. Twisting claims about the plane ride would be a bridge too far for her, especially because it could involve her children having to give testimony.

2) For those of us who do believe she lied about being SH'd, I do wonder why she stopped with the claims during the second half of the movie? Just out of curiosity, I'm wondering why not just continue twisting things?

PP answering my own questions now, but I guess it's because she got what she wanted. That's the thing though: Justin Baldoni is apparently such a sex pest and lacks such self-preservation instincts that he's willing to harass the wife of one of the most powerful men in Hollywood, but he magically stops during the second half of the movie? If he was brazen enough to lack self-control during the first half of the movie, he wouldn't magically stop during the second half. If anyone can truly be harassed by anyone, then we'd have to concede that fact patterns don't matter and sexual harassment is not worthy of academic study. It's not worth looking into any patterns because any man could start spontaneously harassing you. If people truly believed this, I think this would ironically discourage people from looking into any "red flags," making them even more unsafe.

Maybe I'm not the right person to ask because I think it probably wasn't at the level of SH but I can see a scenario where she thought he was being creepy or weird, she complained, and in part because of who she's married to, and because of the 17 points, he was then extremely careful to basically not do anything even close to the behavior she complained about.

I think this is what happened as well. Also haven't we heard rumors that Ryan was on set for much of the second half of filming? Prior to that he was not there because he was filming his own movie, but post-strike he was in NY and could have been more present. That would change power dynamics a lot, I imagine. You do wonder if some of the stuff that she alleges happened early in shooting (especially the apparent conflict over touching in the dancing scene, and the debate over the birth scene) would have unfolded the same way if Ryan had been around. I'm betting not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1) I still don't think it's a coincidence that the only place Blake didn't have trouble with Justin during the first half of the movie was on the plane with her children. Twisting claims about the plane ride would be a bridge too far for her, especially because it could involve her children having to give testimony.

2) For those of us who do believe she lied about being SH'd, I do wonder why she stopped with the claims during the second half of the movie? Just out of curiosity, I'm wondering why not just continue twisting things?

PP answering my own questions now, but I guess it's because she got what she wanted. That's the thing though: Justin Baldoni is apparently such a sex pest and lacks such self-preservation instincts that he's willing to harass the wife of one of the most powerful men in Hollywood, but he magically stops during the second half of the movie? If he was brazen enough to lack self-control during the first half of the movie, he wouldn't magically stop during the second half. If anyone can truly be harassed by anyone, then we'd have to concede that fact patterns don't matter and sexual harassment is not worthy of academic study. It's not worth looking into any patterns because any man could start spontaneously harassing you. If people truly believed this, I think this would ironically discourage people from looking into any "red flags," making them even more unsafe.

I don't get the sense that Lively's allegations are that Justin is a "sex pest" who lacks self control. She's not suing him for sexual assault and her complaint doesn't indicate that she felt he was trying to hit on her or have sex with her.

It's a hostile work environment claim. Her argument is that his behavior on the set and in their working relationship was sexually inappropriate, boundary violating, and sometimes sexist in a way that made it hard for her to do her job. I think people get the "sex pest" idea because of the allegations from Justin that Ryan called him a sexual predator. But Blake's complaint doesn't make him sound like a sexual predator at all. It makes him sound kind of tone deaf and chauvinist at times, and the stuff around the birth scene in particular indicates he may have some attitudes about women that made women on the set feel uncomfortable or not listened to. The alleged incident with Jenny Slate is in the same vein -- Heath supposedly said something that felt diminishing or judgmental regarding working moms (very unclear what exactly happened but that's the gist I can get).

Anyway, the allegations are that Baldoni and Heath were inappropriate and made people uncomfortable, not that they were sex pests. That can still be sexual harassment. I really don't know if what happened on this set rose to that level, and neither do you, but it's important to understand the nature of what is being alleged. At no point does Lively allege that Baldoni was coming on to her, only that his behavior was sexually charged and gendered in a way that made her feel uncomfortable to a degree that interfered with her ability to do her job.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1) I still don't think it's a coincidence that the only place Blake didn't have trouble with Justin during the first half of the movie was on the plane with her children. Twisting claims about the plane ride would be a bridge too far for her, especially because it could involve her children having to give testimony.

2) For those of us who do believe she lied about being SH'd, I do wonder why she stopped with the claims during the second half of the movie? Just out of curiosity, I'm wondering why not just continue twisting things?

PP answering my own questions now, but I guess it's because she got what she wanted. That's the thing though: Justin Baldoni is apparently such a sex pest and lacks such self-preservation instincts that he's willing to harass the wife of one of the most powerful men in Hollywood, but he magically stops during the second half of the movie? If he was brazen enough to lack self-control during the first half of the movie, he wouldn't magically stop during the second half. If anyone can truly be harassed by anyone, then we'd have to concede that fact patterns don't matter and sexual harassment is not worthy of academic study. It's not worth looking into any patterns because any man could start spontaneously harassing you. If people truly believed this, I think this would ironically discourage people from looking into any "red flags," making them even more unsafe.

She got what she wanted, which was control of the movie editing. She didn't get upset again until she started getting bad press when the movie came out.

Adding, one must view it all through the lens of her being a control freak. Watch the TikToks where she is futzing with her costars during publicity shots or telling the waiter how to pour her drink.

If you haven't seen this vid yet, I think you would appreciate it: https://www.tiktok.com/@gabschase/video/7515468331449617694

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1) I still don't think it's a coincidence that the only place Blake didn't have trouble with Justin during the first half of the movie was on the plane with her children. Twisting claims about the plane ride would be a bridge too far for her, especially because it could involve her children having to give testimony.

2) For those of us who do believe she lied about being SH'd, I do wonder why she stopped with the claims during the second half of the movie? Just out of curiosity, I'm wondering why not just continue twisting things?

PP answering my own questions now, but I guess it's because she got what she wanted. That's the thing though: Justin Baldoni is apparently such a sex pest and lacks such self-preservation instincts that he's willing to harass the wife of one of the most powerful men in Hollywood, but he magically stops during the second half of the movie? If he was brazen enough to lack self-control during the first half of the movie, he wouldn't magically stop during the second half. If anyone can truly be harassed by anyone, then we'd have to concede that fact patterns don't matter and sexual harassment is not worthy of academic study. It's not worth looking into any patterns because any man could start spontaneously harassing you. If people truly believed this, I think this would ironically discourage people from looking into any "red flags," making them even more unsafe.

She got what she wanted, which was control of the movie editing. She didn't get upset again until she started getting bad press when the movie came out.

Adding, one must view it all through the lens of her being a control freak. Watch the TikToks where she is futzing with her costars during publicity shots or telling the waiter how to pour her drink.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1) I still don't think it's a coincidence that the only place Blake didn't have trouble with Justin during the first half of the movie was on the plane with her children. Twisting claims about the plane ride would be a bridge too far for her, especially because it could involve her children having to give testimony.

2) For those of us who do believe she lied about being SH'd, I do wonder why she stopped with the claims during the second half of the movie? Just out of curiosity, I'm wondering why not just continue twisting things?

PP answering my own questions now, but I guess it's because she got what she wanted. That's the thing though: Justin Baldoni is apparently such a sex pest and lacks such self-preservation instincts that he's willing to harass the wife of one of the most powerful men in Hollywood, but he magically stops during the second half of the movie? If he was brazen enough to lack self-control during the first half of the movie, he wouldn't magically stop during the second half. If anyone can truly be harassed by anyone, then we'd have to concede that fact patterns don't matter and sexual harassment is not worthy of academic study. It's not worth looking into any patterns because any man could start spontaneously harassing you. If people truly believed this, I think this would ironically discourage people from looking into any "red flags," making them even more unsafe.

She got what she wanted, which was control of the movie editing. She didn't get upset again until she started getting bad press when the movie came out.

Adding, one must view it all through the lens of her being a control freak. Watch the TikToks where she is futzing with her costars during publicity shots or telling the waiter how to pour her drink.