Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not conflating the two issues. Those two issues have been conflated by pro choicers. They use both as justification for their position.

Once again, I am not advocating for women to be forced to give birth to children they don't actually want. I. said. that. I. don't. agree. with. aborting. because. the. child. is. unwanted. There are plenty of people and organizations that are willing to "contend with the outcome of that".

Do you possess a magic wand that magicks an embryo out of a woman who DOES. NOT. WANT. TO. BE. PREGNANT. and into some sort of device that finishes the pregnancy? Because AFAIK there’s no way to have a baby out of your body without being pregnant or giving birth. Ergo: you support forced birth.

I'll say it again, and keep saying it:

I don't think anyone should be FORCED to give birth. She has the right to certain choices. Do you understand that part?

I also don't agree with, and don't like, one of the available choices. That DOESN'T mean that I support forced birth. Do you understand that part as well?

Anonymous wrote:I am not conflating the two issues. Those two issues have been conflated by pro choicers. They use both as justification for their position.

Once again, I am not advocating for women to be forced to give birth to children they don't actually want. I. said. that. I. don't. agree. with. aborting. because. the. child. is. unwanted. There are plenty of people and organizations that are willing to "contend with the outcome of that".

Do you possess a magic wand that magicks an embryo out of a woman who DOES. NOT. WANT. TO. BE. PREGNANT. and into some sort of device that finishes the pregnancy? Because AFAIK there’s no way to have a baby out of your body without being pregnant or giving birth. Ergo: you support forced birth.

Anonymous wrote:So in summary.....

Let's all push for free/accessible healthcare, education, and free/accessible LARCs.

And then we will have fewer unwanted pregnancies to worry about.

It’s also about substance abuse. Users aren’t taking any responsibility at any point. No Safe sex, or abortion.
Bottom line: unwanted children are perhaps the biggest societal ill.

So in summary.....

Let's all push for free/accessible healthcare, education, and free/accessible LARCs.

And then we will have fewer unwanted pregnancies to worry about.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Prisons are literally filled with unwanted babies. Where were all the organizations willing to “contend” with those babies?

If their parents did not want them when they were born, the parents had every opportunity to reach out to an organization for help. That was their responsibility.

The whole point was they didn't want the responsibility. Or the baby. It was forced on them, go figure, it didn't work out.

Let people make the best choices for their situation. It's really just between them and their doctor.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Prisons are literally filled with unwanted babies. Where were all the organizations willing to “contend” with those babies?

If their parents did not want them when they were born, the parents had every opportunity to reach out to an organization for help. That was their responsibility.

Will that matter when that unwanted baby grows up to rape and murder your loved one?

Anonymous wrote:
Prisons are literally filled with unwanted babies. Where were all the organizations willing to “contend” with those babies?

If their parents did not want them when they were born, the parents had every opportunity to reach out to an organization for help. That was their responsibility.

Prisons are literally filled with unwanted babies. Where were all the organizations willing to “contend” with those babies?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one, literally no one said that abortion is preferable.


The pp only said she thinks abortion should be legal when she was taken to task. That whole back and forth only began because she said she would be willing to have someone else’s fetus implanted in her!

Sure they did. They clearly said that abortion was better than raising an "unwanted" child. That means that they prefer abortion in that instance.

No. The PP said that she would RATHER have that done (when asked if she would do so), than have the baby killed. The PP never said that abortion should be illegal. You are the one that tried to equate her disagreement with abortion for convenience, with wanting to make it illegal. Nice try.

You are conflating two issues- abortion as a women’s health issue and the existence of unwanted children.

If I say that there are millions of unwanted children and will be millions more of abortion is outlawed, I’m not saying that I would prefer abortion on an individual basis to any person. I am directing attention to the fact that these advocates for “the baby’s life” don’t seem particularly concerned about all of the unwanted children who currently exist and have bad outcomes. I am not advocating for women to be forced to give birth to children they don’t actually want- you are. Therefore you need to contend with the outcome of that.

I would not touch the legality of abortion or tell women what to do either way- I would want to reduce abortion by actually providing birth control, sex education, supports for parents etc.

So we want the same thing- but this idea of individual preference is nonsense. Either support public policies that reduce abortions or don’t. Who cares what you prefer?

I am not conflating the two issues. Those two issues have been conflated by pro choicers. They use both as justification for their position.

Once again, I am not advocating for women to be forced to give birth to children they don't actually want. I. said. that. I. don't. agree. with. aborting. because. the. child. is. unwanted. There are plenty of people and organizations that are willing to "contend with the outcome of that".

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one, literally no one said that abortion is preferable.


The pp only said she thinks abortion should be legal when she was taken to task. That whole back and forth only began because she said she would be willing to have someone else’s fetus implanted in her!

Sure they did. They clearly said that abortion was better than raising an "unwanted" child. That means that they prefer abortion in that instance.

No. The PP said that she would RATHER have that done (when asked if she would do so), than have the baby killed. The PP never said that abortion should be illegal. You are the one that tried to equate her disagreement with abortion for convenience, with wanting to make it illegal. Nice try.

You are conflating two issues- abortion as a women’s health issue and the existence of unwanted children.

If I say that there are millions of unwanted children and will be millions more of abortion is outlawed, I’m not saying that I would prefer abortion on an individual basis to any person. I am directing attention to the fact that these advocates for “the baby’s life” don’t seem particularly concerned about all of the unwanted children who currently exist and have bad outcomes. I am not advocating for women to be forced to give birth to children they don’t actually want- you are. Therefore you need to contend with the outcome of that.

I would not touch the legality of abortion or tell women what to do either way- I would want to reduce abortion by actually providing birth control, sex education, supports for parents etc.

So we want the same thing- but this idea of individual preference is nonsense. Either support public policies that reduce abortions or don’t. Who cares what you prefer?

That PP said she wishes she could take on the responsibility for that child rather than have it aborted. She never said the mother had to have the baby. I don't see anyone advocating for forced birth in these most recent posts. We all know that no one person could take on the responsibility for all unwanted pregnancies. Some of us can feel sadness at the loss of children to abortions while acknowledging that it would not be right to force a woman to have a baby and that abortion must be kept legal and ALSO agreeing fervently with you that we should reduce the need for abortion through birth control, education, support etc.

I don't get what has you so bothered about people who support keeping abortion legal expressing sadness about abortions? Everyone is entitled to individual preference. This thread is a discussion of opinions on abortion. If you can't hack hearing how other people feel about it, perhaps step away.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one, literally no one said that abortion is preferable.


The pp only said she thinks abortion should be legal when she was taken to task. That whole back and forth only began because she said she would be willing to have someone else’s fetus implanted in her!

Sure they did. They clearly said that abortion was better than raising an "unwanted" child. That means that they prefer abortion in that instance.

No. The PP said that she would RATHER have that done (when asked if she would do so), than have the baby killed. The PP never said that abortion should be illegal. You are the one that tried to equate her disagreement with abortion for convenience, with wanting to make it illegal. Nice try.

You are conflating two issues- abortion as a women’s health issue and the existence of unwanted children.

If I say that there are millions of unwanted children and will be millions more of abortion is outlawed, I’m not saying that I would prefer abortion on an individual basis to any person. I am directing attention to the fact that these advocates for “the baby’s life” don’t seem particularly concerned about all of the unwanted children who currently exist and have bad outcomes. I am not advocating for women to be forced to give birth to children they don’t actually want- you are. Therefore you need to contend with the outcome of that.

I would not touch the legality of abortion or tell women what to do either way- I would want to reduce abortion by actually providing birth control, sex education, supports for parents etc.

So we want the same thing- but this idea of individual preference is nonsense. Either support public policies that reduce abortions or don’t. Who cares what you prefer?

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Anonymous wrote:You're missing the part where the woman was a slut and therefore HAS to take care of the baby as punishment.

Pro-life = babies are the punishment for sex.

FOR WOMEN, not men. Remember it’s about punishing WOMEN for having sex.

Au contraire....the person that does not want the baby seems to be viewing it as a punishment....

Why should you carry a pregnancy and risk death of you do not want to?

Isn’t having your freedom impeded considered a punishment in this country?

There are lots of things we are not free to do in this country...doesn't mean we are being punished.

Would death qualify as a punishment to you? Do you understand that the US has the highest maternal mortality rate of any developed nation?

Our laws allow for abortions where the life of mother is in danger.

No. If I die from cancer, I am not being punished.

If someone prevented you from removing cancer or whatever was causing you pain or suffering, isn’t that a punishment?

My mother is a physician from a country where abortions were illegal. She watched a mother of 3 bleed out and die from a botched abortion and supported choice thereafter. Do we need to have that happen in the US?

Our laws allow for abortions where the life of mother is in danger.

If you get rid of laws allowing abortion, a lot more mothers’ lives will be in danger.

Why doesn’t the aborted baby even get a chance to live on?

Because it is inside someone else’s body. That person’s life and health are more important.

That’s an extremely selfish view. And yes, an unborn child can live outside the womb. That’s been possible for decades. I know you’d like to think it is all about the woman, but it isn’t. Also, no one is running around trying to punish women. They are instead trying to save babies. Again, it is back to the scientific point where the baby can be sustained outside of the womb. At that point, abortion should be called murder, not abortion. Yes, of course there are medical circumstances that can prove the exception, but economics and convenience aren’t justification for murdering a human entity capable of being sustained outside the womb. I see this as no different than mass disposal of homeless people off our city streets, but we don’t do that do we? I know you won’t be convinced as you’re incapable of taking emotion out of your thought process.

What are you even talking about? Abortion after viability is illegal. Literally no one said it should be otherwise. Pay attention!

Agree with pp. Nobody is talking about abortions after viability. We are talking about fetuses that CANNOT live outside the womb. In my opinion late term abortions are a whole different subject entirely. And they are EXTREMELY rare. Reasons for this include 1. There are like 2-3 places in the country that do it. 2. It's insanely expensive- like $8,000-10,000. And really the only time I have ever heard of late term abortions being performed is when a very serious problem is found late in the pregnancy/or the mother is in serious danger. Although it is certainly not ideal-these people aren't just deciding at 24 weeks that they want an abortion.

Agree.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're missing the part where the woman was a slut and therefore HAS to take care of the baby as punishment.

Pro-life = babies are the punishment for sex.

FOR WOMEN, not men. Remember it’s about punishing WOMEN for having sex.

Au contraire....the person that does not want the baby seems to be viewing it as a punishment....

Why should you carry a pregnancy and risk death of you do not want to?

Isn’t having your freedom impeded considered a punishment in this country?

There are lots of things we are not free to do in this country...doesn't mean we are being punished.

Would death qualify as a punishment to you? Do you understand that the US has the highest maternal mortality rate of any developed nation?

Our laws allow for abortions where the life of mother is in danger.

No. If I die from cancer, I am not being punished.

If someone prevented you from removing cancer or whatever was causing you pain or suffering, isn’t that a punishment?

My mother is a physician from a country where abortions were illegal. She watched a mother of 3 bleed out and die from a botched abortion and supported choice thereafter. Do we need to have that happen in the US?

Our laws allow for abortions where the life of mother is in danger.

If you get rid of laws allowing abortion, a lot more mothers’ lives will be in danger.

Why doesn’t the aborted baby even get a chance to live on?

Because it is inside someone else’s body. That person’s life and health are more important.

That’s an extremely selfish view. And yes, an unborn child can live outside the womb. That’s been possible for decades. I know you’d like to think it is all about the woman, but it isn’t. Also, no one is running around trying to punish women. They are instead trying to save babies. Again, it is back to the scientific point where the baby can be sustained outside of the womb. At that point, abortion should be called murder, not abortion. Yes, of course there are medical circumstances that can prove the exception, but economics and convenience aren’t justification for murdering a human entity capable of being sustained outside the womb. I see this as no different than mass disposal of homeless people off our city streets, but we don’t do that do we? I know you won’t be convinced as you’re incapable of taking emotion out of your thought process.

What are you even talking about? Abortion after viability is illegal. Literally no one said it should be otherwise. Pay attention!

Agree with pp. Nobody is talking about abortions after viability. We are talking about fetuses that CANNOT live outside the womb. In my opinion late term abortions are a whole different subject entirely. And they are EXTREMELY rare. Reasons for this include 1. There are like 2-3 places in the country that do it. 2. It's insanely expensive- like $8,000-10,000. And really the only time I have ever heard of late term abortions being performed is when a very serious problem is found late in the pregnancy/or the mother is in serious danger. Although it is certainly not ideal-these people aren't just deciding at 24 weeks that they want an abortion.

Anonymous wrote:No one, literally no one said that abortion is preferable.

The pp only said she thinks abortion should be legal when she was taken to task. That whole back and forth only began because she said she would be willing to have someone else’s fetus implanted in her!

If she feels that way but still agrees abortion *should be legal*, who are you to say she needs to be taken to task?? Taken to task for what, having compassion for the loss of a life? She clearly has compassion for women if she recognizes the fact that it needs to remain legal. Are you the idiot who argued she needed to adopt 5 or more children? You don't sound at all reasonable.

Abortions need to be legally available, and it is terrible the way the pro-life movement has made it so hard to find competent providers in so many places even now as it remains legal. It is horrible how the pro-birth nutsos undermine the very things that would help reduce the number of abortions (education etc.) But abortions are a tragedy. If you are saying no one says they are preferable, you aren't paying attention. Just go to the "heartbroken" thread about the 18 year old who is pregnant. Very first post is "get an abortion". Without knowing the totality of the situation, the first several posters go right to "get an abortion". Its gross. There are plenty of people who treat it like NBD.

Anonymous wrote:No one, literally no one said that abortion is preferable.


The pp only said she thinks abortion should be legal when she was taken to task. That whole back and forth only began because she said she would be willing to have someone else’s fetus implanted in her!

Sure they did. They clearly said that abortion was better than raising an "unwanted" child. That means that they prefer abortion in that instance.

No. The PP said that she would RATHER have that done (when asked if she would do so), than have the baby killed. The PP never said that abortion should be illegal. You are the one that tried to equate her disagreement with abortion for convenience, with wanting to make it illegal. Nice try.