Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Also, report showed locks were often circumvented by staff and doors were often propped open. Administration knew and felt it aided teachers who forgot their keys.

That's the problem with "crying wolf" so many times. It feels like "just another unneeded lockdown."

Border crossers running into/on school property was a huge issue

DP. That contradicts the fact that it was common practice to prop doors open. If it were a huge issue causing legit lockdowns, not just crying wolf, teachers wouldn’t risk propping doors open where someone who entered the country illegally. You can’t expect people to believe that school administrators believed that they were at imminent risk of someone breaking in and doing something that necessitated multiple lockdowns each week, but they also felt safe enough to allow teachers to prop open doors.

The administration was the one who stated they were fine with the locks being deliberately bypassed and doors propped open because it was easier for teachers. The records show how often the school was locked down. There is no disputing these two facts in the report. The administrators might not, despite all this, have felt the students or themselves were at risk, nor apparently did the teachers. Unfortunately, they were quite wrong. How people FEEL is not important; what IS important is adhering to safety regulations.

I’m not saying they didn’t happen. I’m saying the lockdown system was abused and people became numb to it. If your workplace locked down because of possible intruders multiple times a week, would your boss be ok with you propping open the door the rest of the time because Susie in accounting keeps forgetting her keys? Or would you think the lockdowns are maybe being overused? There’s a disconnect somewhere. It doesn’t make sense.

You lose all credibility when you continue to post false information. The door was broken and did not lock. Propping the door open was put out by the police to deflect blame. They also tried to blame the 911 operates, waiting for keys to open the unlocked door that only locked from the outside, etc.

The door wasn't propped open that day, but they regularly propped it open. I'm saying that they don't seem to take lockdowns seriously, if it's either completely locked down or completely wide open. It doesn't make sense. Someone was suggesting it's a dangerous place because of illegal border crossings generating 40+ lockdown between Feb and the end of the school year. But the admin also allowed the doors to be propped open to get around the auto locks because they were inconvenient, especially when teachers would forget to bring their keys.

I'm talking about the general school atmosphere, not the day of the shooting.

I have not seen any credible reports saying the door was propped open. Can you link to that?

No, not the day of, because the door wasn't propped open that day when the shooter entered.

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Anonymous wrote:This would be like a doctor going to school, taking all the necessary courses and ongoing training and then during your heart surgery. Just being like you know what I'm not comfortable with this and walking out of the operating room. Who goes into a profession trains for that profession gets paid to do that profession but then refuses to do the actual work when it comes down to it.

When you realize that you personally might actually die.

And yet we require 18 year olds to register for the selective service. And they could be called up after high school graduation and shipped to a foreign country against their will and handed the same weapons and ordered into the line of fire. And we allow other 18 year olds to commit to being sent to war, no excuses. We expect it of soldiers. And if our Army turns tail and runs, that’s very bad as well. We also expect it of police, many of whom are older and all of whom knew going in this was a possibility.

And here’s something else to think about. Unconscious bias is a powerful thing. If this were a classroom full of UMC white kids, 77 minutes would not have elapsed.

+1

About your last comment. The political pressure from parents alone would have had cops in the room much quicker if there were UMC white kids. Imagine this happening at a private school? Never would 77 minutes elapse.

That is the most racist thing you could ever say. You know nothing about Uvalde at all.

DP It is not racist to point out racism. If this had happened a Sidwell or Choate do you think the police response would be different- yes. Would the police still be lying about what happened - no. Would meaningful gun restrict be in place- yes.

This isn’t helpful. I’ll go out in a limb and suggest that MPD would have a different response posture for Sidwell than a small, rural town in SW Texas. We know that based on April 22 local and federal response to the Burke shooting. Laying blame for the lack of action at Uvalde on racism strikes me as facile given that many of the responding officers were themselves Latino.

Your response is disingenuous and more like conservatives propaganda full of lies and fake news. 91 law enforcement officers were at the site and did nothing. They were ordered to stand down and wait which is against all SOPs. The small rural SW Texas town had its own swat team and school police force in addition to regular police. They had all the resources, training and personnel need to handle one shooter. We all know what Texas conservatives think of poc and immigrants. The police’s inaction was followed up by a cover up that starts at the highest level of Texas government and is still on going.

This would have been handle differently if the school was Sidwel or similar. You know that but for some reason you wish to spread your lies and disinformation.

Ma’am, this is a Wendy’s, may I take your order?

What the f are you saying? Are you trying to be funny? Here an update for you over 400 law enforcement officers were at the school and did nothing. Every day there is more and more coming out and all you do is spin. I bet you were one of those Sandy Hook deniers. What the f is wrong with you conservatives?You are f in the head.

DP. That’s an older joke. It’s used when people go on rants, especially for unwanted or unrelated topics. I’m rather progressive and I rolled my eyes at that comment too, so get over yourself.

Also, the new report said 376 members of law enforcement. It’s still a lot, so it’s really not necessary to exaggerate to make your case look better. It diminishes your other points when you do that. If you want a dramatic talking point, you could say there were more officers there than there were defending the Alamo. But please do stop accusing other people of spin if you can’t even get your own facts straight.

Nearly 400.

Like I said.

And I personally wouldn’t be sad if every one of them lost their job, and I wish there were charges the ones in charge could face. I don’t know how they’re continuing with life in these small towns where they must see the victims’ families every time they go to the grocery store or church or whatever. I also think pointing out that the punisher phone cop was receiving info that his wife was shot makes him look better than he did before we knew that’s why he was on his phone.

My point was that this story is plenty bad without exaggerating to make it look worse, especially if you’re accusing others of spin.

Psychologically, people are less likely to help if they are one of many than if they are alone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, report showed locks were often circumvented by staff and doors were often propped open. Administration knew and felt it aided teachers who forgot their keys.

That's the problem with "crying wolf" so many times. It feels like "just another unneeded lockdown."

Border crossers running into/on school property was a huge issue

DP. That contradicts the fact that it was common practice to prop doors open. If it were a huge issue causing legit lockdowns, not just crying wolf, teachers wouldn’t risk propping doors open where someone who entered the country illegally. You can’t expect people to believe that school administrators believed that they were at imminent risk of someone breaking in and doing something that necessitated multiple lockdowns each week, but they also felt safe enough to allow teachers to prop open doors.

The administration was the one who stated they were fine with the locks being deliberately bypassed and doors propped open because it was easier for teachers. The records show how often the school was locked down. There is no disputing these two facts in the report. The administrators might not, despite all this, have felt the students or themselves were at risk, nor apparently did the teachers. Unfortunately, they were quite wrong. How people FEEL is not important; what IS important is adhering to safety regulations.

I’m not saying they didn’t happen. I’m saying the lockdown system was abused and people became numb to it. If your workplace locked down because of possible intruders multiple times a week, would your boss be ok with you propping open the door the rest of the time because Susie in accounting keeps forgetting her keys? Or would you think the lockdowns are maybe being overused? There’s a disconnect somewhere. It doesn’t make sense.

You lose all credibility when you continue to post false information. The door was broken and did not lock. Propping the door open was put out by the police to deflect blame. They also tried to blame the 911 operates, waiting for keys to open the unlocked door that only locked from the outside, etc.

The door wasn't propped open that day, but they regularly propped it open. I'm saying that they don't seem to take lockdowns seriously, if it's either completely locked down or completely wide open. It doesn't make sense. Someone was suggesting it's a dangerous place because of illegal border crossings generating 40+ lockdown between Feb and the end of the school year. But the admin also allowed the doors to be propped open to get around the auto locks because they were inconvenient, especially when teachers would forget to bring their keys.

I'm talking about the general school atmosphere, not the day of the shooting.

I have not seen any credible reports saying the door was propped open. Can you link to that?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, report showed locks were often circumvented by staff and doors were often propped open. Administration knew and felt it aided teachers who forgot their keys.

That's the problem with "crying wolf" so many times. It feels like "just another unneeded lockdown."

Border crossers running into/on school property was a huge issue

DP. That contradicts the fact that it was common practice to prop doors open. If it were a huge issue causing legit lockdowns, not just crying wolf, teachers wouldn’t risk propping doors open where someone who entered the country illegally. You can’t expect people to believe that school administrators believed that they were at imminent risk of someone breaking in and doing something that necessitated multiple lockdowns each week, but they also felt safe enough to allow teachers to prop open doors.

The administration was the one who stated they were fine with the locks being deliberately bypassed and doors propped open because it was easier for teachers. The records show how often the school was locked down. There is no disputing these two facts in the report. The administrators might not, despite all this, have felt the students or themselves were at risk, nor apparently did the teachers. Unfortunately, they were quite wrong. How people FEEL is not important; what IS important is adhering to safety regulations.

I’m not saying they didn’t happen. I’m saying the lockdown system was abused and people became numb to it. If your workplace locked down because of possible intruders multiple times a week, would your boss be ok with you propping open the door the rest of the time because Susie in accounting keeps forgetting her keys? Or would you think the lockdowns are maybe being overused? There’s a disconnect somewhere. It doesn’t make sense.

You lose all credibility when you continue to post false information. The door was broken and did not lock. Propping the door open was put out by the police to deflect blame. They also tried to blame the 911 operates, waiting for keys to open the unlocked door that only locked from the outside, etc.

The door wasn't propped open that day, but they regularly propped it open. I'm saying that they don't seem to take lockdowns seriously, if it's either completely locked down or completely wide open. It doesn't make sense. Someone was suggesting it's a dangerous place because of illegal border crossings generating 40+ lockdown between Feb and the end of the school year. But the admin also allowed the doors to be propped open to get around the auto locks because they were inconvenient, especially when teachers would forget to bring their keys.

I'm talking about the general school atmosphere, not the day of the shooting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, report showed locks were often circumvented by staff and doors were often propped open. Administration knew and felt it aided teachers who forgot their keys.

That's the problem with "crying wolf" so many times. It feels like "just another unneeded lockdown."

Border crossers running into/on school property was a huge issue

DP. That contradicts the fact that it was common practice to prop doors open. If it were a huge issue causing legit lockdowns, not just crying wolf, teachers wouldn’t risk propping doors open where someone who entered the country illegally. You can’t expect people to believe that school administrators believed that they were at imminent risk of someone breaking in and doing something that necessitated multiple lockdowns each week, but they also felt safe enough to allow teachers to prop open doors.

The administration was the one who stated they were fine with the locks being deliberately bypassed and doors propped open because it was easier for teachers. The records show how often the school was locked down. There is no disputing these two facts in the report. The administrators might not, despite all this, have felt the students or themselves were at risk, nor apparently did the teachers. Unfortunately, they were quite wrong. How people FEEL is not important; what IS important is adhering to safety regulations.

I’m not saying they didn’t happen. I’m saying the lockdown system was abused and people became numb to it. If your workplace locked down because of possible intruders multiple times a week, would your boss be ok with you propping open the door the rest of the time because Susie in accounting keeps forgetting her keys? Or would you think the lockdowns are maybe being overused? There’s a disconnect somewhere. It doesn’t make sense.

You lose all credibility when you continue to post false information. The door was broken and did not lock. Propping the door open was put out by the police to deflect blame. They also tried to blame the 911 operates, waiting for keys to open the unlocked door that only locked from the outside, etc.

Anonymous wrote:Was anyone shocked to read that there were 350 cops on the scene!? 350. Unbelievable.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This would be like a doctor going to school, taking all the necessary courses and ongoing training and then during your heart surgery. Just being like you know what I'm not comfortable with this and walking out of the operating room. Who goes into a profession trains for that profession gets paid to do that profession but then refuses to do the actual work when it comes down to it.

When you realize that you personally might actually die.

And yet we require 18 year olds to register for the selective service. And they could be called up after high school graduation and shipped to a foreign country against their will and handed the same weapons and ordered into the line of fire. And we allow other 18 year olds to commit to being sent to war, no excuses. We expect it of soldiers. And if our Army turns tail and runs, that’s very bad as well. We also expect it of police, many of whom are older and all of whom knew going in this was a possibility.

And here’s something else to think about. Unconscious bias is a powerful thing. If this were a classroom full of UMC white kids, 77 minutes would not have elapsed.

+1

About your last comment. The political pressure from parents alone would have had cops in the room much quicker if there were UMC white kids. Imagine this happening at a private school? Never would 77 minutes elapse.

That is the most racist thing you could ever say. You know nothing about Uvalde at all.

DP It is not racist to point out racism. If this had happened a Sidwell or Choate do you think the police response would be different- yes. Would the police still be lying about what happened - no. Would meaningful gun restrict be in place- yes.

This isn’t helpful. I’ll go out in a limb and suggest that MPD would have a different response posture for Sidwell than a small, rural town in SW Texas. We know that based on April 22 local and federal response to the Burke shooting. Laying blame for the lack of action at Uvalde on racism strikes me as facile given that many of the responding officers were themselves Latino.

Your response is disingenuous and more like conservatives propaganda full of lies and fake news. 91 law enforcement officers were at the site and did nothing. They were ordered to stand down and wait which is against all SOPs. The small rural SW Texas town had its own swat team and school police force in addition to regular police. They had all the resources, training and personnel need to handle one shooter. We all know what Texas conservatives think of poc and immigrants. The police’s inaction was followed up by a cover up that starts at the highest level of Texas government and is still on going.

This would have been handle differently if the school was Sidwel or similar. You know that but for some reason you wish to spread your lies and disinformation.

Ma’am, this is a Wendy’s, may I take your order?

What the f are you saying? Are you trying to be funny? Here an update for you over 400 law enforcement officers were at the school and did nothing. Every day there is more and more coming out and all you do is spin. I bet you were one of those Sandy Hook deniers. What the f is wrong with you conservatives?You are f in the head.

DP. That’s an older joke. It’s used when people go on rants, especially for unwanted or unrelated topics. I’m rather progressive and I rolled my eyes at that comment too, so get over yourself.

Also, the new report said 376 members of law enforcement. It’s still a lot, so it’s really not necessary to exaggerate to make your case look better. It diminishes your other points when you do that. If you want a dramatic talking point, you could say there were more officers there than there were defending the Alamo. But please do stop accusing other people of spin if you can’t even get your own facts straight.

Nearly 400.

Like I said.

And I personally wouldn’t be sad if every one of them lost their job, and I wish there were charges the ones in charge could face. I don’t know how they’re continuing with life in these small towns where they must see the victims’ families every time they go to the grocery store or church or whatever. I also think pointing out that the punisher phone cop was receiving info that his wife was shot makes him look better than he did before we knew that’s why he was on his phone.

My point was that this story is plenty bad without exaggerating to make it look worse, especially if you’re accusing others of spin.

NP but the fact that the guy was checking his phone is so weird and confusing to me. He was getting messages from his wife that she had been shot and was dying. But then he just continues standing there and puts his phone away? If my spouse texted me that from a nearby room I would immediately run to rescue them or help them. I find that story hard to believe, but there have been lots of lies and cowardly behavior by these cops.

There was a closed door between him and the shooter. Don’t forget that. I mean, he had his phone in one hand, his gun in the other. How was he supposed to open the door to get to her or the shooter? He’s a police officer, not a super hero.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, report showed locks were often circumvented by staff and doors were often propped open. Administration knew and felt it aided teachers who forgot their keys.

That's the problem with "crying wolf" so many times. It feels like "just another unneeded lockdown."

Border crossers running into/on school property was a huge issue

DP. That contradicts the fact that it was common practice to prop doors open. If it were a huge issue causing legit lockdowns, not just crying wolf, teachers wouldn’t risk propping doors open where someone who entered the country illegally. You can’t expect people to believe that school administrators believed that they were at imminent risk of someone breaking in and doing something that necessitated multiple lockdowns each week, but they also felt safe enough to allow teachers to prop open doors.

The administration was the one who stated they were fine with the locks being deliberately bypassed and doors propped open because it was easier for teachers. The records show how often the school was locked down. There is no disputing these two facts in the report. The administrators might not, despite all this, have felt the students or themselves were at risk, nor apparently did the teachers. Unfortunately, they were quite wrong. How people FEEL is not important; what IS important is adhering to safety regulations.

I’m not saying they didn’t happen. I’m saying the lockdown system was abused and people became numb to it. If your workplace locked down because of possible intruders multiple times a week, would your boss be ok with you propping open the door the rest of the time because Susie in accounting keeps forgetting her keys? Or would you think the lockdowns are maybe being overused? There’s a disconnect somewhere. It doesn’t make sense.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look. These are small-town cops who likely never in their wildest imaginations thought they’d be dealing with a school shooter.
Most of the crime in Uvalde is larceny and property crimes. Violent crime rate is below the national average and is mostly assaults.

They weren’t really prepared to be cops who would lay their lives on the line. So they didn’t.

When the far-reached theory suddenly became their reality, they all froze. Every one of them. Bc the theory of dying to save others may be ok, but the reality—not so much.

But yet they had and funded a SWAT team?!!!??

They also brought equipment they didn't use, including freaking ballistic shields to protect them if they encountered gunfire!

A Halligan bar — an ax-like forcible-entry tool used by firefighters to get through locked doors — was available. Ballistic shields were arriving on the scene. So was plenty of firepower, including at least two rifles.

I was wondering how much if it IS due to “chain of command “ (which is sacrosanct in paramilitary organizations).

People armed professionally have to take orders from their superiors. This is the worst failure of leadership I have ever heard of.

I wonder how the low level guys are coping ?

Abbott should be held accountable, since he is the leader if their state.