This is what date rape looks like when men rape unconscious females at frat parties. This is the rape culture issue. Men raised to think it's OK to rape unconscious or severely impaired drunk females at parties, due to of a culture of shame and acceptance of this behavior. This is not regret sex, this is rape.

This isn't 20 minutes of action. This is violent criminal behavior more about power and aggression than sex. This isn't sex. It's rape.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You are offended by the disgusting location behind the dumpsters. I agree with you - that is not a place that most women (or men) would want to fool around. The idea of laying down in those pine needles that party goers had very likely peed and puked on...hey, I'm with you. That is disgusting. That is beyond gross. But Brock and Emily Doe did end up together behind those dumpsters and there is no indication that she was dragged there. She walked with him. In fact, he said in his statement that she led him there. Hard to believe but you have to realize that this girl was drunk and probably did not want to be seen by her sister sucking face with this guy (just a guess). One thing led to another, he touched her with dirty gross hands, she probably touched him with her dirty gross hands. She wound up passing out. And Brock was seen humping her passed out body.

Both of these people were out of control drunk that night. That isn't an excuse for Brock touching her passed out body. But it certainly explains some of the extremely bad choices that they both made.

If the facts were different - if he had carried or dragged her to that location while she was passed out and proceeded to assault her that would be a much more serious situation. But it really does sound like she walked there.

Here's your rape culture in bold print. This is how the rationalization works in a rapist's mind.

So what if it didn't work with 10 other women. Finally got a score because this one right here wants it. She hasn't said no.

This thread has been talking a lot about what to teach daughters. Parents should print this out and show it to their sons.

Women will never be equal to men if they can not assume the same responsibility as men. I am very uncomfortable with this notion that a drunk man is somehow more in control than a drunk woman is. I am in control of me and I make choices for me. If I want to go behind a dumpster with a guy - that is my choice. If I want to fool around with a guy I will fool around with him. If I want him to treat me with decency I have to do the same thing for him.

Of course, if I am unconscious I can not give consent. No one is saying that a passed out person can give consent.

Men are stronger almost always. You'll never be equal to a man unless you're armed.

There is no evidence that he strong armed her though. He wasn't physically forcing her to dance/kiss/walk behind the dumpsters or physically restraining her. I think there would have been evidence of a forceful attack on her body and I don't think that was found. They definitely looked for signs in the hospital.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You are offended by the disgusting location behind the dumpsters. I agree with you - that is not a place that most women (or men) would want to fool around. The idea of laying down in those pine needles that party goers had very likely peed and puked on...hey, I'm with you. That is disgusting. That is beyond gross. But Brock and Emily Doe did end up together behind those dumpsters and there is no indication that she was dragged there. She walked with him. In fact, he said in his statement that she led him there. Hard to believe but you have to realize that this girl was drunk and probably did not want to be seen by her sister sucking face with this guy (just a guess). One thing led to another, he touched her with dirty gross hands, she probably touched him with her dirty gross hands. She wound up passing out. And Brock was seen humping her passed out body.

Both of these people were out of control drunk that night. That isn't an excuse for Brock touching her passed out body. But it certainly explains some of the extremely bad choices that they both made.

If the facts were different - if he had carried or dragged her to that location while she was passed out and proceeded to assault her that would be a much more serious situation. But it really does sound like she walked there.

Here's your rape culture in bold print. This is how the rationalization works in a rapist's mind.

So what if it didn't work with 10 other women. Finally got a score because this one right here wants it. She hasn't said no.

This thread has been talking a lot about what to teach daughters. Parents should print this out and show it to their sons.

Women will never be equal to men if they can not assume the same responsibility as men. I am very uncomfortable with this notion that a drunk man is somehow more in control than a drunk woman is. I am in control of me and I make choices for me. If I want to go behind a dumpster with a guy - that is my choice. If I want to fool around with a guy I will fool around with him. If I want him to treat me with decency I have to do the same thing for him.

Of course, if I am unconscious I can not give consent. No one is saying that a passed out person can give consent.

That's not this case and has nothing to do with this case. This is a case in which a (maybe) drunk guy sexually assaulted an unconscious woman.

He was seen by witnesses dry humping a passed out woman - that's pretty bad. I don't think that there is any question that he stepped over the line as soon as Emily Doe passed out. I disagree that it can be assumed that he knew how drunk she was, knew how much she had drank that night, knew what her tolerance level was, knew that she was going to pass out....

It was verified via BAC that he was drunk. Brock had started drinking liquor before the party and he drank 7 or 8 beers at the party. The cops noticed that he stumbled a bit. He talked about throwing up, he mentioned not remembering what had happened for a while after the swedes had tackled him. The sober swedes were easily able to overtake this 6'3" Olympic level athlete (probably not an easy thing to do when he is sober). I am not defending what he did. But I'm not going to vilify him beyond what he actually did do. He is not responsible for Emily Doe drinking that night, he is not responsible for her blacking out behind a dumpster (she walked there herself). He is not responsible for her trip to the hospital - she wound up at the hospital because she was passed out on the ground and would not wake up. He is not responsible for her not remembering how she got there. He is not responsible for the invasive tests and photographs that she consented to. Emily Doe says that she did not feel that drunk, she was surprised that she was that drunk, she was surprised that she had passed out. When her sister left the party to walk a drunk girl back home Emily seemed fine to her sister. Why would this drunk guy know that Emily was that drunk?

Emily had been drinking hard liquor before she got to the party (she drank 4 shots of whiskey before her mom dropped her and her sister off on campus) and during the party (vodka) and maybe beer too (?) I'm wondering if the alcohol simply hit her blood stream while she was back behind the dumpsters making out with Brock. Maybe she was drunk but not THAT drunk when they were dancing and she became pass out drunk within a short time later...after they had already hooked up and were behind the dumpsters. And they were only behind the dumpsters for maybe 5 to 7 minutes before the swedes rode up.

There is a lot that is still vague and uncertain. I honestly don't know how you go from standing/talking/dancing to completely passed out cold for hours within the course of such a short time frame.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You are offended by the disgusting location behind the dumpsters. I agree with you - that is not a place that most women (or men) would want to fool around. The idea of laying down in those pine needles that party goers had very likely peed and puked on...hey, I'm with you. That is disgusting. That is beyond gross. But Brock and Emily Doe did end up together behind those dumpsters and there is no indication that she was dragged there. She walked with him. In fact, he said in his statement that she led him there. Hard to believe but you have to realize that this girl was drunk and probably did not want to be seen by her sister sucking face with this guy (just a guess). One thing led to another, he touched her with dirty gross hands, she probably touched him with her dirty gross hands. She wound up passing out. And Brock was seen humping her passed out body.

Both of these people were out of control drunk that night. That isn't an excuse for Brock touching her passed out body. But it certainly explains some of the extremely bad choices that they both made.

If the facts were different - if he had carried or dragged her to that location while she was passed out and proceeded to assault her that would be a much more serious situation. But it really does sound like she walked there.

Here's your rape culture in bold print. This is how the rationalization works in a rapist's mind.

So what if it didn't work with 10 other women. Finally got a score because this one right here wants it. She hasn't said no.

This thread has been talking a lot about what to teach daughters. Parents should print this out and show it to their sons.

Women will never be equal to men if they can not assume the same responsibility as men. I am very uncomfortable with this notion that a drunk man is somehow more in control than a drunk woman is. I am in control of me and I make choices for me. If I want to go behind a dumpster with a guy - that is my choice. If I want to fool around with a guy I will fool around with him. If I want him to treat me with decency I have to do the same thing for him.

Of course, if I am unconscious I can not give consent. No one is saying that a passed out person can give consent.

I kind of understand your point which is (I think) that if two people are blitzed and making poor decisions how can one be held more accountable than the other. And you know there's actually a parallel for women.

Women have to run about birth control no matter how drunk they get, or they think about it beforehand to take precautions (pill, sober friend, buddy system). Women can say men need to take responsibility for birth control too until we're blue in the fave but the reality is that the buck stops in our bodies so is really on us.

Men are physically much stronger than women and are able to overtake them even unintentionally. Therefore the buck stops with men on physical assault in most cases. And men need to be aware of that and take precautions to make sure they don't accidentally rape someone, just like a woman does to avoid pregnancy, because if they don't l, then yes they'll face the consequences. But as is true in both scenarios, everyone is really living with the repurcussions for the rest of their lives.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You are offended by the disgusting location behind the dumpsters. I agree with you - that is not a place that most women (or men) would want to fool around. The idea of laying down in those pine needles that party goers had very likely peed and puked on...hey, I'm with you. That is disgusting. That is beyond gross. But Brock and Emily Doe did end up together behind those dumpsters and there is no indication that she was dragged there. She walked with him. In fact, he said in his statement that she led him there. Hard to believe but you have to realize that this girl was drunk and probably did not want to be seen by her sister sucking face with this guy (just a guess). One thing led to another, he touched her with dirty gross hands, she probably touched him with her dirty gross hands. She wound up passing out. And Brock was seen humping her passed out body.

Both of these people were out of control drunk that night. That isn't an excuse for Brock touching her passed out body. But it certainly explains some of the extremely bad choices that they both made.

If the facts were different - if he had carried or dragged her to that location while she was passed out and proceeded to assault her that would be a much more serious situation. But it really does sound like she walked there.

Here's your rape culture in bold print. This is how the rationalization works in a rapist's mind.

So what if it didn't work with 10 other women. Finally got a score because this one right here wants it. She hasn't said no.

This thread has been talking a lot about what to teach daughters. Parents should print this out and show it to their sons.

Women will never be equal to men if they can not assume the same responsibility as men. I am very uncomfortable with this notion that a drunk man is somehow more in control than a drunk woman is. I am in control of me and I make choices for me. If I want to go behind a dumpster with a guy - that is my choice. If I want to fool around with a guy I will fool around with him. If I want him to treat me with decency I have to do the same thing for him.

Of course, if I am unconscious I can not give consent. No one is saying that a passed out person can give consent.

Men are stronger almost always. You'll never be equal to a man unless you're armed.

Martial arts training is helpful. Most guys don't know how to fight. If a woman has some training, she stands a much better chance. Aikido and judo work very well for women, but karate and tae kwon do are okay. (Self-defense classes are a start, but not nearly enough.)

I am reluctant to recommend guns or other weapons for drunk people. That can end badly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He may have taken a photo and sent it to others.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3635654/Stanford-rapist-took-photograph-victim-s-breasts-attack-shared-swim-team-friends-deleted-arrest-police-believe.html

Yes, this needs to be seen by everyone. This wasn't just a case of two horny drunk teens but a guy despicable enough to take a picture of an unconscious woman's with her breasts exposed and send it to his buddies.

He's a convicted felon and a registered sex offender. He's a baddy, yes. Do you want 20 lashings, too?

somewhat agree. our justice system has acted. for better or worse - he's received his punishment. sounds like people on this thread want to add on to that punishment in various ways but that isn't how it works.

Duh. Punishment doesn't fit the crime. Devalues women. That's what people are angry about. That, and the fact that there are still so many assholes defending this guys behavior and/or blaming the victim. In this country, we have the ability to criticize when the system fails.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You are offended by the disgusting location behind the dumpsters. I agree with you - that is not a place that most women (or men) would want to fool around. The idea of laying down in those pine needles that party goers had very likely peed and puked on...hey, I'm with you. That is disgusting. That is beyond gross. But Brock and Emily Doe did end up together behind those dumpsters and there is no indication that she was dragged there. She walked with him. In fact, he said in his statement that she led him there. Hard to believe but you have to realize that this girl was drunk and probably did not want to be seen by her sister sucking face with this guy (just a guess). One thing led to another, he touched her with dirty gross hands, she probably touched him with her dirty gross hands. She wound up passing out. And Brock was seen humping her passed out body.

Both of these people were out of control drunk that night. That isn't an excuse for Brock touching her passed out body. But it certainly explains some of the extremely bad choices that they both made.

If the facts were different - if he had carried or dragged her to that location while she was passed out and proceeded to assault her that would be a much more serious situation. But it really does sound like she walked there.

Here's your rape culture in bold print. This is how the rationalization works in a rapist's mind.

So what if it didn't work with 10 other women. Finally got a score because this one right here wants it. She hasn't said no.

This thread has been talking a lot about what to teach daughters. Parents should print this out and show it to their sons.

Women will never be equal to men if they can not assume the same responsibility as men. I am very uncomfortable with this notion that a drunk man is somehow more in control than a drunk woman is. I am in control of me and I make choices for me. If I want to go behind a dumpster with a guy - that is my choice. If I want to fool around with a guy I will fool around with him. If I want him to treat me with decency I have to do the same thing for him.

Of course, if I am unconscious I can not give consent. No one is saying that a passed out person can give consent.

You are so backwards. How is convicting a man who committed sexual assault of sexual assault absolving women of any responsibility? Responsibility for what? You are part of the problem. You should be ashamed of yourself if you can look at a situation like this and assign any responsibility for the attack on the woman who was attacked. For the last fucking time, having too much to drink is not anyone's way of saying "do what you want to me". It is not. If you come upon a drunk person, you help them. You don't rob them, you don't hurt them, you don't rape them. If you do any of those things to another person at any time, it is on YOU. The minute you say she asked for this because she drank too much to be in control, and that is what you are fucking doing, you are part of the rape culture.

Women who defend rapists disgust me. I know you do it out of fear so you can rationalize to yourself that it won't ever happen to you, but it is still disgusting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He may have taken a photo and sent it to others.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3635654/Stanford-rapist-took-photograph-victim-s-breasts-attack-shared-swim-team-friends-deleted-arrest-police-believe.html

Yes, this needs to be seen by everyone. This wasn't just a case of two horny drunk teens but a guy despicable enough to take a picture of an unconscious woman's with her breasts exposed and send it to his buddies.

He's a convicted felon and a registered sex offender. He's a baddy, yes. Do you want 20 lashings, too?

somewhat agree. our justice system has acted. for better or worse - he's received his punishment. sounds like people on this thread want to add on to that punishment in various ways but that isn't how it works.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You are offended by the disgusting location behind the dumpsters. I agree with you - that is not a place that most women (or men) would want to fool around. The idea of laying down in those pine needles that party goers had very likely peed and puked on...hey, I'm with you. That is disgusting. That is beyond gross. But Brock and Emily Doe did end up together behind those dumpsters and there is no indication that she was dragged there. She walked with him. In fact, he said in his statement that she led him there. Hard to believe but you have to realize that this girl was drunk and probably did not want to be seen by her sister sucking face with this guy (just a guess). One thing led to another, he touched her with dirty gross hands, she probably touched him with her dirty gross hands. She wound up passing out. And Brock was seen humping her passed out body.

Both of these people were out of control drunk that night. That isn't an excuse for Brock touching her passed out body. But it certainly explains some of the extremely bad choices that they both made.

If the facts were different - if he had carried or dragged her to that location while she was passed out and proceeded to assault her that would be a much more serious situation. But it really does sound like she walked there.

Here's your rape culture in bold print. This is how the rationalization works in a rapist's mind.

So what if it didn't work with 10 other women. Finally got a score because this one right here wants it. She hasn't said no.

This thread has been talking a lot about what to teach daughters. Parents should print this out and show it to their sons.

Women will never be equal to men if they can not assume the same responsibility as men. I am very uncomfortable with this notion that a drunk man is somehow more in control than a drunk woman is. I am in control of me and I make choices for me. If I want to go behind a dumpster with a guy - that is my choice. If I want to fool around with a guy I will fool around with him. If I want him to treat me with decency I have to do the same thing for him.

Of course, if I am unconscious I can not give consent. No one is saying that a passed out person can give consent.

That's not this case and has nothing to do with this case. This is a case in which a (maybe) drunk guy sexually assaulted an unconscious woman.

the comment above may not have anything do with this particular case - but it does have something do to with the overall discussion

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You are offended by the disgusting location behind the dumpsters. I agree with you - that is not a place that most women (or men) would want to fool around. The idea of laying down in those pine needles that party goers had very likely peed and puked on...hey, I'm with you. That is disgusting. That is beyond gross. But Brock and Emily Doe did end up together behind those dumpsters and there is no indication that she was dragged there. She walked with him. In fact, he said in his statement that she led him there. Hard to believe but you have to realize that this girl was drunk and probably did not want to be seen by her sister sucking face with this guy (just a guess). One thing led to another, he touched her with dirty gross hands, she probably touched him with her dirty gross hands. She wound up passing out. And Brock was seen humping her passed out body.

Both of these people were out of control drunk that night. That isn't an excuse for Brock touching her passed out body. But it certainly explains some of the extremely bad choices that they both made.

If the facts were different - if he had carried or dragged her to that location while she was passed out and proceeded to assault her that would be a much more serious situation. But it really does sound like she walked there.

Here's your rape culture in bold print. This is how the rationalization works in a rapist's mind.

So what if it didn't work with 10 other women. Finally got a score because this one right here wants it. She hasn't said no.

This thread has been talking a lot about what to teach daughters. Parents should print this out and show it to their sons.

Women will never be equal to men if they can not assume the same responsibility as men. I am very uncomfortable with this notion that a drunk man is somehow more in control than a drunk woman is. I am in control of me and I make choices for me. If I want to go behind a dumpster with a guy - that is my choice. If I want to fool around with a guy I will fool around with him. If I want him to treat me with decency I have to do the same thing for him.

Of course, if I am unconscious I can not give consent. No one is saying that a passed out person can give consent.

Men are stronger almost always. You'll never be equal to a man unless you're armed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You are offended by the disgusting location behind the dumpsters. I agree with you - that is not a place that most women (or men) would want to fool around. The idea of laying down in those pine needles that party goers had very likely peed and puked on...hey, I'm with you. That is disgusting. That is beyond gross. But Brock and Emily Doe did end up together behind those dumpsters and there is no indication that she was dragged there. She walked with him. In fact, he said in his statement that she led him there. Hard to believe but you have to realize that this girl was drunk and probably did not want to be seen by her sister sucking face with this guy (just a guess). One thing led to another, he touched her with dirty gross hands, she probably touched him with her dirty gross hands. She wound up passing out. And Brock was seen humping her passed out body.

Both of these people were out of control drunk that night. That isn't an excuse for Brock touching her passed out body. But it certainly explains some of the extremely bad choices that they both made.

If the facts were different - if he had carried or dragged her to that location while she was passed out and proceeded to assault her that would be a much more serious situation. But it really does sound like she walked there.

Here's your rape culture in bold print. This is how the rationalization works in a rapist's mind.

So what if it didn't work with 10 other women. Finally got a score because this one right here wants it. She hasn't said no.

This thread has been talking a lot about what to teach daughters. Parents should print this out and show it to their sons.

Women will never be equal to men if they can not assume the same responsibility as men. I am very uncomfortable with this notion that a drunk man is somehow more in control than a drunk woman is. I am in control of me and I make choices for me. If I want to go behind a dumpster with a guy - that is my choice. If I want to fool around with a guy I will fool around with him. If I want him to treat me with decency I have to do the same thing for him.

Of course, if I am unconscious I can not give consent. No one is saying that a passed out person can give consent.

That's not this case and has nothing to do with this case. This is a case in which a (maybe) drunk guy sexually assaulted an unconscious woman.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He may have taken a photo and sent it to others.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3635654/Stanford-rapist-took-photograph-victim-s-breasts-attack-shared-swim-team-friends-deleted-arrest-police-believe.html

Yes, this needs to be seen by everyone. This wasn't just a case of two horny drunk teens but a guy despicable enough to take a picture of an unconscious woman's with her breasts exposed and send it to his buddies.

He's a convicted felon and a registered sex offender. He's a baddy, yes. Do you want 20 lashings, too?

Anonymous wrote:He may have taken a photo and sent it to others.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3635654/Stanford-rapist-took-photograph-victim-s-breasts-attack-shared-swim-team-friends-deleted-arrest-police-believe.html

Yes, this needs to be seen by everyone. This wasn't just a case of two horny drunk teens but a guy despicable enough to take a picture of an unconscious woman's with her breasts exposed and send it to his buddies.

Drunk women are also not allowed to commit crimes. Not sure what degree of control has to do with this case. we have have no evidence that she did anything to him without his consent since he was walking (running), talking, and actively trying to get off on her.

Anonymous wrote:

You are offended by the disgusting location behind the dumpsters. I agree with you - that is not a place that most women (or men) would want to fool around. The idea of laying down in those pine needles that party goers had very likely peed and puked on...hey, I'm with you. That is disgusting. That is beyond gross. But Brock and Emily Doe did end up together behind those dumpsters and there is no indication that she was dragged there. She walked with him. In fact, he said in his statement that she led him there. Hard to believe but you have to realize that this girl was drunk and probably did not want to be seen by her sister sucking face with this guy (just a guess). One thing led to another, he touched her with dirty gross hands, she probably touched him with her dirty gross hands. She wound up passing out. And Brock was seen humping her passed out body.

Both of these people were out of control drunk that night. That isn't an excuse for Brock touching her passed out body. But it certainly explains some of the extremely bad choices that they both made.

If the facts were different - if he had carried or dragged her to that location while she was passed out and proceeded to assault her that would be a much more serious situation. But it really does sound like she walked there.

Here's your rape culture in bold print. This is how the rationalization works in a rapist's mind.

So what if it didn't work with 10 other women. Finally got a score because this one right here wants it. She hasn't said no.

This thread has been talking a lot about what to teach daughters. Parents should print this out and show it to their sons.

Women will never be equal to men if they can not assume the same responsibility as men. I am very uncomfortable with this notion that a drunk man is somehow more in control than a drunk woman is. I am in control of me and I make choices for me. If I want to go behind a dumpster with a guy - that is my choice. If I want to fool around with a guy I will fool around with him. If I want him to treat me with decency I have to do the same thing for him.

Of course, if I am unconscious I can not give consent. No one is saying that a passed out person can give consent.