Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:300 people are bitten by rattlesnakes per year in CA.

Interesting fact. In the book about dying in the Grand Canyon, very few of the deaths involve animals. They were surprised when they studied the data that rattlesnake bites didn't count for more deaths. They rarely bite hikers in the GC and they aren't fatal bites when they do bite. I think one older guy died of a heart attack after being bitten. One guy got butted off a trail by a mountain goat.

I saw that book when we were at the GC and almost picked it up. Maybe I'll have to order it as it sounds really interesting.

The book does a great job of educating the reader about how risky hiking down into the valley is. There are lots of people who should just stay above around the rim. The number of people who are unprepared and get themselves into trouble isn't surprising. I was more stunned by the experienced hikers who got in trouble. You really get a feel for the rescue folks and the danger they encounter dealing with idiots. There is also lots of info about the dangers around the rivers there.

I also learned, DO NOT take a helicopter ride over the gc.

Not blaming anyone. While I personally would not have taken that hike with my family under those same circumstances (age of child, heat, etc.) they were free to think differently. My counsel is simply caution and preparedness.

So they closed the forest because of whatever killed this family and multiple posters are still blaming them.

Figures.

The duality of nature is tragically illustrated by this incident. The beauty and apparent perfection of nature inspires us to experience it as thoroughly as our individual circumstances permit. However, the challenge and danger of it is frightening and will injure or kill us with ease when our personal safety taken for granted. One always needs to use conservative judgement when balancing that real threat against our exploratory desires.

My family has experienced most of the big national parks, including extensive hiking. This includes several Yosemite hikes and even a very short hike in Death Valley during the peak heat season in August (about 128 degrees in the shade). I was so cautious about driving into Death Valley that I put a 5-gallon plastic jug of water in our rental car – just in case of a breakdown. Despite being prepared with the proper clothes, water and other protective measures, the feeling of walking in such heat for even a single mile was unnerving. Simply breathing causes the inside of the nostrils to feel like you are in a dry sauna – a weird burning smell. Close to home, during the summer we have experienced similar temperatures and conditions in the southern portions of Shenandoah, so these hazards present themselves locally. Unprepared people really do die on even relatively short hikes in these parks – sometimes caused by a sudden natural development or by aggravating a pre-existing health problem through extreme stress. My brother in law married a woman whose late husband (an experienced outdoorsman) froze to death while hiking alone and unprepared in Yosemite in the late spring. A sudden freakish ice storm killed him. Hard to say what happened in this case, but I have the gut feeling that a combination of excessive heat, an unusual natural occurrence and inability to obtain help killed them.

I am the Scoutmaster of the all-girl Scouts BSA Troop in DC and remember these outdoor tragedies when we instruct our Scouts to favor caution over enthusiasm in heading into the wilderness. Bring plenty of clean water, dress carefully, have a means of communication and always tell someone where you are going and when you are expecting to return.

Anonymous wrote:You don't even realize you are sweating in that environment because it evaporates because it is so dry. Just the dry climate itself sucks the moisture right out of you. You'd think the mother would have been checking on the baby from behind. They were pushing themselves to get back. It's like being in a brick oven surrounded by rocks radiating heat back at you. The fatal flaw was probably not turning around sooner, or trying to do the whole loop. You'd think if any one of them was struggling, they would have cut it short. If the mom said I want to turn back, would the dad have said no, let's keep going?

If they really did the whole loop, the first part was the "easy" part and they could have gone several miles before somebody started to struggle. Maybe they figured it would be faster to keep going around the loop, rather than doubling back, not realizing how brutal the steep climb would be with the extra weight of the baby and/or dog and no shade.

From the Fresno Bee articles:

Sierra National Forest closed numerous hiking trails, picnic areas and campgrounds, citing “unknown hazards found in and near the Savage Lundy Trail,” where a Mariposa family was mysteriously found dead two weeks ago.

The closures went into effect Sunday and extend through Sept. 26.

The Sierra closures started just a day before the U.S. Forest Service shared it will close all 20 million acres of California’s national forests beginning Tuesday until at least Sept. 17 due to “extreme fire conditions,” The Sacramento Bee first reported.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Update - they closed the whole forest

https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article253868828.html

Because wildfires.

They closed this forest because of unknown hazards. They closed other nearby forests because of fires.

Eh, I know that’s the wording of the announcement but I think it’s more a catch all for trying to prevent looky loos from coming to the site.

I live in CA. ALL national forests to visitors. The closure started on 8/23 and has been extended to 9/17. This has nothing to do with that family.

I’m in Yosemite and drove through the Sierra to get here. (And we swam all day in the Merced yesterday). The Sierra is open, as is Yosemite.

The website is a bit of a mess. But the Sierra seems to be closed.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/sierra/

You don't even realize you are sweating in that environment because it evaporates because it is so dry. Just the dry climate itself sucks the moisture right out of you. You'd think the mother would have been checking on the baby from behind. They were pushing themselves to get back. It's like being in a brick oven surrounded by rocks radiating heat back at you. The fatal flaw was probably not turning around sooner, or trying to do the whole loop. You'd think if any one of them was struggling, they would have cut it short. If the mom said I want to turn back, would the dad have said no, let's keep going?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Update - they closed the whole forest

https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article253868828.html

Because wildfires.

They closed this forest because of unknown hazards. They closed other nearby forests because of fires.

Eh, I know that’s the wording of the announcement but I think it’s more a catch all for trying to prevent looky loos from coming to the site.

I live in CA. ALL national forests to visitors. The closure started on 8/23 and has been extended to 9/17. This has nothing to do with that family.

I’m in Yosemite and drove through the Sierra to get here. (And we swam all day in the Merced yesterday). The Sierra is open, as is Yosemite.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:300 people are bitten by rattlesnakes per year in CA.

Interesting fact. In the book about dying in the Grand Canyon, very few of the deaths involve animals. They were surprised when they studied the data that rattlesnake bites didn't count for more deaths. They rarely bite hikers in the GC and they aren't fatal bites when they do bite. I think one older guy died of a heart attack after being bitten. One guy got butted off a trail by a mountain goat.

I saw that book when we were at the GC and almost picked it up. Maybe I'll have to order it as it sounds really interesting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would bet money that they all died of heat stroke. Dad couldn't sweat b/c of big pack, was exerting himself, and it was 106 degrees with no shade! A human cannot survive if their core temp goes above 106 and there was no way for them to cool down. Babies are like old people, they can't thermo regulate. The baby was trapped in a backpack oven. Bet the dad didn't even realize til he took the pack off that the baby had died. The dog probably stopped moving at some point, at which time the dad sat down.

Heat is not an unknown hazard. It is also obvious in the bodies.

They didn't close this forest for heat.

I'm not talking about why they closed the forest. I'm talking about cause of death.

Anonymous wrote:I would bet money that they all died of heat stroke. Dad couldn't sweat b/c of big pack, was exerting himself, and it was 106 degrees with no shade! A human cannot survive if their core temp goes above 106 and there was no way for them to cool down. Babies are like old people, they can't thermo regulate. The baby was trapped in a backpack oven. Bet the dad didn't even realize til he took the pack off that the baby had died. The dog probably stopped moving at some point, at which time the dad sat down.

Heat is not an unknown hazard. It is also obvious in the bodies.

They didn't close this forest for heat.

I would bet money that they all died of heat stroke. Dad couldn't sweat b/c of big pack, was exerting himself, and it was 106 degrees with no shade! A human cannot survive if their core temp goes above 106 and there was no way for them to cool down. Babies are like old people, they can't thermo regulate. The baby was trapped in a backpack oven. Bet the dad didn't even realize til he took the pack off that the baby had died. The dog probably stopped moving at some point, at which time the dad sat down.

What does "unknown hazards found" even mean? Are the hazards still unknown, or were the previously unknown hazards found? Strange wording.

The landscape is changing with the fires and global warming. Although it was a challenging hike, it was hotter than normal, they had a baby, and there had been fires. No matter how much water you drink, at some point you just get cooked. They also could have been breathing smoke or unclean air from the charred trees. I figure whatever killed them was in common to all of them-the air, the temperature, and possibly what they drank, ate, or were exposed to.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Update - they closed the whole forest

https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article253868828.html

Because wildfires.

They closed this forest because of unknown hazards. They closed other nearby forests because of fires.

Eh, I know that’s the wording of the announcement but I think it’s more a catch all for trying to prevent looky loos from coming to the site.

I live in CA. ALL national forests to visitors. The closure started on 8/23 and has been extended to 9/17. This has nothing to do with that family.

This forest was closed on Sunday 8/22, one day before the other forests were closed.

^^^

Correction: This forest was closed on Sunday and all other forests were closed on Tuesday. Through September.