If Brock Turner had been black out drunk too would that have meant that she sexually assaulted him too? I mean that seriously. Would that have meant that these two raped each other if they both couldn't remember what happened?

How about this question: if Brock Turner had been black, would you still be looking for reasons to absolve his guilt?

I can guarantee that if he were, with the same accomplishments and potential, the same upstanding family and background, and all other facts were the same, the search for "what really happened" would include thorough research for any and everything that could prove he's nothing but a criminal and the lesson would be that sexual predators have be stopped and they have to pay.

Because what the judge and all these apologists are saying is that the reward for being successful is getting away with mistreating other people.

I'm so glad he has a memorable name and face. So glad this is all over the media. I'm sickened that this thread has gone on for 90+ pages because so many still want make excuses for a felon, but it's really kept the issue in the minds of a lot of people and I'm glad that there's outrage. Otherwise, I don't even know how we could call this a civilized society.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have one question,

WTF is a hookup culture and how the hell did we get there?

Err... And who's to blame?

Alcohol, hormones, and the sexual revolution?

The sexual revolution was in the 60s. Hookup culture is much more modern than that, although the sexual revolution was probably the grandmother of hookup culture.

Um no. After the sexual revolution is when people started casually hooking up. The term hook up culture is relatively new. The behavior isn't

Pickup bars are not new. Hookup culture is new -- lots of drinking on college campuses is not new, but casual sex is more accepted and expected than it used to be. No longer illicit.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you have to consent to the rape kit procedure?

Yes. You don't have to do it, whether or not you decide to press charges.

Dis she consent to it or was she unconscious? Anyone know?

No one knows for sure whether she consented to being fingered. Based on eyewitness accounts, she was passed out drunk and was unable to giving consent to being dry humped.

Anonymous wrote:Don't other human beings in other countries have hormones and drink alcohol?

This begs the question .... WTF is the "sexual revolution"?

Check your history and examine the changing sexual morals that occurred between the early and late 60's. Have you honestly never heard of the sexual revolution?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you have to consent to the rape kit procedure?

Yes. You don't have to do it, whether or not you decide to press charges.

Dis she consent to it or was she unconscious? Anyone know?

Don't other human beings in other countries have hormones and drink alcohol?

This begs the question .... WTF is the "sexual revolution"?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have one question,

WTF is a hookup culture and how the hell did we get there?

Err... And who's to blame?

Alcohol, hormones, and the sexual revolution?

The sexual revolution was in the 60s. Hookup culture is much more modern than that, although the sexual revolution was probably the grandmother of hookup culture.

Um no. After the sexual revolution is when people started casually hooking up. The term hook up culture is relatively new. The behavior isn't

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If Emily Doe had come to after the swedes arrived on the scene and realized that this guy that she had been making out with had continued to dry hump her even after she had passed out, she would have been humiliated and pissed off at him. But I can about guarantee that she would have not called the cops, gone and done the rape kit exams, had photos taken of her naked body. No way would she have wanted to read about this in the paper.

She would have told Brock off in no uncertain terms and that would have been it. Maybe they would have both learned their lesson right then and there. Two lives spared and able to move on.

The reason this got as far as it did is because she blacked out drunk and awoke in the hospital not knowing wth had happened to her. She could have been gang raped for all she knew. HIV!! And once the sex crime investigation started to take place...that was it. No turning back.

You literally have no idea what she would have done if she had woken up. And you are completely, totally missing the point. The fact that she was blackout drunk is what makes this assault. Conscious or not, her level of intoxication prevented her from being capable of giving consent. That is California law; the one that was used to convict Turner of sexual assault. You, and a host of posters here, seem to have an argument with the letter of the law. Well, I guess, good thing for you you don't live in California. Because irrespective of what you think it should be, the law says that penetrating a woman with your fingers, regardless of her level of consciousness, is a *crime* if she is so drunk she can't remember what happened. None of the other circumstances are relevant.

If Brock Turner had been black out drunk too would that have meant that she sexually assaulted him too? I mean that seriously. Would that have meant that these two raped each other if they both couldn't remember what happened?

Obviously these two were both very drunk. She more so than him. Although it sure doesn't sound as though he was with it enough to know how drunk she was. Her own sister had no idea how drunk Emily Doe was In fact she states that she thought her sister was fine when she left the party for a while to escort a very drunk friend back to her dorm room. Emily Doe had no idea how drunk she was. Why on earth would this guy know that she was that drunk? Serious question. How are you supposed to know that?

At any rate, none of this excuses what Brock Turner did. He admitted to hooking up with and fingering a drunk girl. He admitted was caught dry humping a passed out girl. That was wrong of him and he has been convicted.

This is a cautionary tale for both young men and women. Bad choices ruin lives.

You can't actually sexually assault someone when you are passed out on the ground. Just an FYI.

Oh, but if you black out and don't remember what you did it makes it a sexual assault. If she had *remembered* being fingered while making out the penetration wouldn't have been a crime. It's not what you did, it's whether you remember doing it that determines whether or not you consented. So the question remains....if Brock had also blacked out drunk (not passed out, blacked out) would he be able to accuse Emily Doe of sexually assaulting him? It's a fair question.

He dry humped her after she was passed out. No one saw him penetrating her when she was passed out. He's in trouble for the penetration because she says she doesn't remember it.

I wonder if you'd feel so generously disposed if Brock was found unresponsive with his pants off behind the dumpster, being humped by a man A strange man he may or may not have walked out of the party with. Dirt and pine needles shoved clear up his ass, which has many abrasions. Let's say this man has also been drinking but doesn't appear impaired to witnesses. He's been making unwanted overtures to men at the party all evening. He says Brock agreed to all of this (most especially the dirty hands up ass) though no one can substantiate that of course. He claims not to have noticed Brock was unresponsive though it was so obvious to passers by Brock appeared dead. Brock remains unresponsive for hours and wakes up with no memory of the man.

Is the perpetrator in that scenario just as sympathetic to you? Is Brock in this scenario just as deserving of skepticism and blame in your opinion?

Yes, men hook up with other men all the time. Based on the scenario just described all we would know for sure is that Brock dry humped a passed out man. And that is the crime that he should be sentenced for.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If Emily Doe had come to after the swedes arrived on the scene and realized that this guy that she had been making out with had continued to dry hump her even after she had passed out, she would have been humiliated and pissed off at him. But I can about guarantee that she would have not called the cops, gone and done the rape kit exams, had photos taken of her naked body. No way would she have wanted to read about this in the paper.

She would have told Brock off in no uncertain terms and that would have been it. Maybe they would have both learned their lesson right then and there. Two lives spared and able to move on.

The reason this got as far as it did is because she blacked out drunk and awoke in the hospital not knowing wth had happened to her. She could have been gang raped for all she knew. HIV!! And once the sex crime investigation started to take place...that was it. No turning back.

You literally have no idea what she would have done if she had woken up. And you are completely, totally missing the point. The fact that she was blackout drunk is what makes this assault. Conscious or not, her level of intoxication prevented her from being capable of giving consent. That is California law; the one that was used to convict Turner of sexual assault. You, and a host of posters here, seem to have an argument with the letter of the law. Well, I guess, good thing for you you don't live in California. Because irrespective of what you think it should be, the law says that penetrating a woman with your fingers, regardless of her level of consciousness, is a *crime* if she is so drunk she can't remember what happened. None of the other circumstances are relevant.

If Brock Turner had been black out drunk too would that have meant that she sexually assaulted him too? I mean that seriously. Would that have meant that these two raped each other if they both couldn't remember what happened?

Obviously these two were both very drunk. She more so than him. Although it sure doesn't sound as though he was with it enough to know how drunk she was. Her own sister had no idea how drunk Emily Doe was In fact she states that she thought her sister was fine when she left the party for a while to escort a very drunk friend back to her dorm room. Emily Doe had no idea how drunk she was. Why on earth would this guy know that she was that drunk? Serious question. How are you supposed to know that?

At any rate, none of this excuses what Brock Turner did. He admitted to hooking up with and fingering a drunk girl. He admitted was caught dry humping a passed out girl. That was wrong of him and he has been convicted.

This is a cautionary tale for both young men and women. Bad choices ruin lives.

You can't actually sexually assault someone when you are passed out on the ground. Just an FYI.

Black-out drunk does not mean unconscious (passed-out drunk).

Black-out drunk and passed-out drunk are both probably pass the point of legal consent. I wonder how they legally define that consent. A certain BAC? Any alcohol at all renders you unable to give consent?

Anonymous wrote:Do you have to consent to the rape kit procedure?

Yes. You don't have to do it, whether or not you decide to press charges.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have one question,

WTF is a hookup culture and how the hell did we get there?

Err... And who's to blame?

Alcohol, hormones, and the sexual revolution?

The sexual revolution was in the 60s. Hookup culture is much more modern than that, although the sexual revolution was probably the grandmother of hookup culture.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And he admitted penetration took place.in his statement to the police.

He also said he thought she was awake, the whole encounter took about 5 minutes, and he didn't know that he ran when the Swedes tackled him. We're selectively believing part and disbelieving part of what he said to the police. That's fine, but we should be aware of what we're doing.

He also claimed not to remember what happened until he learned the victim didn't remember at which point he changed his story to she consented.

This. He absolutely changed his story once he found out that she didn't remember anything.

Do you have to consent to the rape kit procedure?

Anonymous wrote:I have one question,

WTF is a hookup culture and how the hell did we get there?

Err... And who's to blame?

Alcohol, hormones, and the sexual revolution?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If Emily Doe had come to after the swedes arrived on the scene and realized that this guy that she had been making out with had continued to dry hump her even after she had passed out, she would have been humiliated and pissed off at him. But I can about guarantee that she would have not called the cops, gone and done the rape kit exams, had photos taken of her naked body. No way would she have wanted to read about this in the paper.

She would have told Brock off in no uncertain terms and that would have been it. Maybe they would have both learned their lesson right then and there. Two lives spared and able to move on.

The reason this got as far as it did is because she blacked out drunk and awoke in the hospital not knowing wth had happened to her. She could have been gang raped for all she knew. HIV!! And once the sex crime investigation started to take place...that was it. No turning back.

You literally have no idea what she would have done if she had woken up. And you are completely, totally missing the point. The fact that she was blackout drunk is what makes this assault. Conscious or not, her level of intoxication prevented her from being capable of giving consent. That is California law; the one that was used to convict Turner of sexual assault. You, and a host of posters here, seem to have an argument with the letter of the law. Well, I guess, good thing for you you don't live in California. Because irrespective of what you think it should be, the law says that penetrating a woman with your fingers, regardless of her level of consciousness, is a *crime* if she is so drunk she can't remember what happened. None of the other circumstances are relevant.

If Brock Turner had been black out drunk too would that have meant that she sexually assaulted him too? I mean that seriously. Would that have meant that these two raped each other if they both couldn't remember what happened?

Obviously these two were both very drunk. She more so than him. Although it sure doesn't sound as though he was with it enough to know how drunk she was. Her own sister had no idea how drunk Emily Doe was In fact she states that she thought her sister was fine when she left the party for a while to escort a very drunk friend back to her dorm room. Emily Doe had no idea how drunk she was. Why on earth would this guy know that she was that drunk? Serious question. How are you supposed to know that?

At any rate, none of this excuses what Brock Turner did. He admitted to hooking up with and fingering a drunk girl. He admitted was caught dry humping a passed out girl. That was wrong of him and he has been convicted.

This is a cautionary tale for both young men and women. Bad choices ruin lives.

You can't actually sexually assault someone when you are passed out on the ground. Just an FYI.

Oh, but if you black out and don't remember what you did it makes it a sexual assault. If she had *remembered* being fingered while making out the penetration wouldn't have been a crime. It's not what you did, it's whether you remember doing it that determines whether or not you consented. So the question remains....if Brock had also blacked out drunk (not passed out, blacked out) would he be able to accuse Emily Doe of sexually assaulting him? It's a fair question.

He dry humped her after she was passed out. No one saw him penetrating her when she was passed out. He's in trouble for the penetration because she says she doesn't remember it.

Rape requires intent, and it must be proven. If he were black out drunk, he may or may not have had intent, but it would be unprovable from his statement. If his friends heard him say he wanted to go rape a girl, that might be enough (in this case, no friend heard him say anything). You're responsible for what you do, even if you don't remember -- although not rememering may be a sort of insanity defense.

The man in Virginia who attacked his wife's ex-emlpoyers is using "I don't remember, I wasn't in my right mind" as a defense. We'll see how that goes.

Brock blacked out briefly after the swedes tackled him. If that is true then it is also possible that he blacked out off and on during his encounter with Emily Doe. He may not remember as much as he thinks he does. He was pretty drunk. So I guess if she groped and kissed him back....he could have potentially been assaulted by Emily??? Serious question.