Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If Emily Doe had come to after the swedes arrived on the scene and realized that this guy that she had been making out with had continued to dry hump her even after she had passed out, she would have been humiliated and pissed off at him. But I can about guarantee that she would have not called the cops, gone and done the rape kit exams, had photos taken of her naked body. No way would she have wanted to read about this in the paper.

She would have told Brock off in no uncertain terms and that would have been it. Maybe they would have both learned their lesson right then and there. Two lives spared and able to move on.

The reason this got as far as it did is because she blacked out drunk and awoke in the hospital not knowing wth had happened to her. She could have been gang raped for all she knew. HIV!! And once the sex crime investigation started to take place...that was it. No turning back.

You literally have no idea what she would have done if she had woken up. And you are completely, totally missing the point. The fact that she was blackout drunk is what makes this assault. Conscious or not, her level of intoxication prevented her from being capable of giving consent. That is California law; the one that was used to convict Turner of sexual assault. You, and a host of posters here, seem to have an argument with the letter of the law. Well, I guess, good thing for you you don't live in California. Because irrespective of what you think it should be, the law says that penetrating a woman with your fingers, regardless of her level of consciousness, is a *crime* if she is so drunk she can't remember what happened. None of the other circumstances are relevant.

If Brock Turner had been black out drunk too would that have meant that she sexually assaulted him too? I mean that seriously. Would that have meant that these two raped each other if they both couldn't remember what happened?

Obviously these two were both very drunk. She more so than him. Although it sure doesn't sound as though he was with it enough to know how drunk she was. Her own sister had no idea how drunk Emily Doe was In fact she states that she thought her sister was fine when she left the party for a while to escort a very drunk friend back to her dorm room. Emily Doe had no idea how drunk she was. Why on earth would this guy know that she was that drunk? Serious question. How are you supposed to know that?

At any rate, none of this excuses what Brock Turner did. He admitted to hooking up with and fingering a drunk girl. He admitted was caught dry humping a passed out girl. That was wrong of him and he has been convicted.

This is a cautionary tale for both young men and women. Bad choices ruin lives.

You can't actually sexually assault someone when you are passed out on the ground. Just an FYI.

Oh, but if you black out and don't remember what you did it makes it a sexual assault. If she had *remembered* being fingered while making out the penetration wouldn't have been a crime. It's not what you did, it's whether you remember doing it that determines whether or not you consented. So the question remains....if Brock had also blacked out drunk (not passed out, blacked out) would he be able to accuse Emily Doe of sexually assaulting him? It's a fair question.

He dry humped her after she was passed out. No one saw him penetrating her when she was passed out. He's in trouble for the penetration because she says she doesn't remember it.

I wonder if you'd feel so generously disposed if Brock was found unresponsive with his pants off behind the dumpster, being humped by a man A strange man he may or may not have walked out of the party with. Dirt and pine needles shoved clear up his ass, which has many abrasions. Let's say this man has also been drinking but doesn't appear impaired to witnesses. He's been making unwanted overtures to men at the party all evening. He says Brock agreed to all of this (most especially the dirty hands up ass) though no one can substantiate that of course. He claims not to have noticed Brock was unresponsive though it was so obvious to passers by Brock appeared dead. Brock remains unresponsive for hours and wakes up with no memory of the man.

Is the perpetrator in that scenario just as sympathetic to you? Is Brock in this scenario just as deserving of skepticism and blame in your opinion?

The only crime we know for sure he committed was dry humping a passed out drunk girl. Six months in jail and a lifetime of being branded as a sex offender does not seem too lenient a punishment for that.

I have one question,

WTF is a hookup culture and how the hell did we get there?

Err... And who's to blame?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If Emily Doe had come to after the swedes arrived on the scene and realized that this guy that she had been making out with had continued to dry hump her even after she had passed out, she would have been humiliated and pissed off at him. But I can about guarantee that she would have not called the cops, gone and done the rape kit exams, had photos taken of her naked body. No way would she have wanted to read about this in the paper.

She would have told Brock off in no uncertain terms and that would have been it. Maybe they would have both learned their lesson right then and there. Two lives spared and able to move on.

The reason this got as far as it did is because she blacked out drunk and awoke in the hospital not knowing wth had happened to her. She could have been gang raped for all she knew. HIV!! And once the sex crime investigation started to take place...that was it. No turning back.

You literally have no idea what she would have done if she had woken up. And you are completely, totally missing the point. The fact that she was blackout drunk is what makes this assault. Conscious or not, her level of intoxication prevented her from being capable of giving consent. That is California law; the one that was used to convict Turner of sexual assault. You, and a host of posters here, seem to have an argument with the letter of the law. Well, I guess, good thing for you you don't live in California. Because irrespective of what you think it should be, the law says that penetrating a woman with your fingers, regardless of her level of consciousness, is a *crime* if she is so drunk she can't remember what happened. None of the other circumstances are relevant.

Dude. What she put herself through with that rape kit exam and those photographs and that trial was way worse than being dry humped or even fingered by a drunken hook up. You don't seem to agree. Whatever.

Did you even read her statement?!?

Yes. Both her statement to police and her impact statement. She remembers nothing about hooking up with Brock Turner BUT she knows that she did not participate in sexual activity with him. How does she know that? Well, because she blacked out! So even if she was actively engaging at some point with him it wasn't her fault. Whether he actually penetrated her while she was conscious and giving him the impression that she was into it...doesn't matter because she blacked out. The dry humping started after she was passed out - that is what the swedes saw. And judging from this guy's age and inexperience level, I would guess that he was not doing that for very long before the swedes rode up....not that it matters because he was clearly in the wrong.

And, yes, he should be held accountable for touching an unconscious woman like that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If Emily Doe had come to after the swedes arrived on the scene and realized that this guy that she had been making out with had continued to dry hump her even after she had passed out, she would have been humiliated and pissed off at him. But I can about guarantee that she would have not called the cops, gone and done the rape kit exams, had photos taken of her naked body. No way would she have wanted to read about this in the paper.

She would have told Brock off in no uncertain terms and that would have been it. Maybe they would have both learned their lesson right then and there. Two lives spared and able to move on.

The reason this got as far as it did is because she blacked out drunk and awoke in the hospital not knowing wth had happened to her. She could have been gang raped for all she knew. HIV!! And once the sex crime investigation started to take place...that was it. No turning back.

You literally have no idea what she would have done if she had woken up. And you are completely, totally missing the point. The fact that she was blackout drunk is what makes this assault. Conscious or not, her level of intoxication prevented her from being capable of giving consent. That is California law; the one that was used to convict Turner of sexual assault. You, and a host of posters here, seem to have an argument with the letter of the law. Well, I guess, good thing for you you don't live in California. Because irrespective of what you think it should be, the law says that penetrating a woman with your fingers, regardless of her level of consciousness, is a *crime* if she is so drunk she can't remember what happened. None of the other circumstances are relevant.

If Brock Turner had been black out drunk too would that have meant that she sexually assaulted him too? I mean that seriously. Would that have meant that these two raped each other if they both couldn't remember what happened?

Obviously these two were both very drunk. She more so than him. Although it sure doesn't sound as though he was with it enough to know how drunk she was. Her own sister had no idea how drunk Emily Doe was In fact she states that she thought her sister was fine when she left the party for a while to escort a very drunk friend back to her dorm room. Emily Doe had no idea how drunk she was. Why on earth would this guy know that she was that drunk? Serious question. How are you supposed to know that?

At any rate, none of this excuses what Brock Turner did. He admitted to hooking up with and fingering a drunk girl. He admitted was caught dry humping a passed out girl. That was wrong of him and he has been convicted.

This is a cautionary tale for both young men and women. Bad choices ruin lives.

You can't actually sexually assault someone when you are passed out on the ground. Just an FYI.

Oh, but if you black out and don't remember what you did it makes it a sexual assault. If she had *remembered* being fingered while making out the penetration wouldn't have been a crime. It's not what you did, it's whether you remember doing it that determines whether or not you consented. So the question remains....if Brock had also blacked out drunk (not passed out, blacked out) would he be able to accuse Emily Doe of sexually assaulting him? It's a fair question.

He dry humped her after she was passed out. No one saw him penetrating her when she was passed out. He's in trouble for the penetration because she says she doesn't remember it.

Rape requires intent, and it must be proven. If he were black out drunk, he may or may not have had intent, but it would be unprovable from his statement. If his friends heard him say he wanted to go rape a girl, that might be enough (in this case, no friend heard him say anything). You're responsible for what you do, even if you don't remember -- although not rememering may be a sort of insanity defense.

The man in Virginia who attacked his wife's ex-emlpoyers is using "I don't remember, I wasn't in my right mind" as a defense. We'll see how that goes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Brock is undoubtedly a douchebag, but 6 months of jail and spending the rest of your life as a registered sex offender seems like a reasonable punishment for a man who fingered a passed out drunk girl (and even then we don't know for certain that she was passed out at that moment he did it)

Leave the "fingering" aside.

He was seen humping her "corpse-like" (the witness's words) body. She was unconscious and he was humping her. We know this because two people saw it. He was convicted of sexual assault with the intent to rape for doing that. It's not questionable. It's not he said/she said. There were two (male) witnesses to that.

6 months isn't enough time for a would-be rapist.

Yes, he was dry humping her unconscious body, which I agree is a crime. But 6 months seems like a reasonable punishment for that sort of crime. There is no way anyone can know if he intended to rape her.

The jury convicted him of intending to rape her. It's been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. They heard all of the evidence and saw the witnesses and the defendant.

We do know that he intended to rape her because he was convicted of intending to rape her.

Are the members of the jury mind readers? Just because they thought he intended to rape her doesn't mean they knew for sure he intended to rape her. Personally, I think he intended to rape her as well, but I still think there is enough reasonable doubt that I would not feel comfortable issuing a sentence based on my gut feeling. Sorry, I think the Judge's sentence was reasonable based on the evidence available.

To further add, someone might be convicted of murder, but there still might be a level of uncertainty that would make a judge/jury uncomfortable with issuing the death penalty vs. life in prison. I kind of see this the same way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If Emily Doe had come to after the swedes arrived on the scene and realized that this guy that she had been making out with had continued to dry hump her even after she had passed out, she would have been humiliated and pissed off at him. But I can about guarantee that she would have not called the cops, gone and done the rape kit exams, had photos taken of her naked body. No way would she have wanted to read about this in the paper.

She would have told Brock off in no uncertain terms and that would have been it. Maybe they would have both learned their lesson right then and there. Two lives spared and able to move on.

The reason this got as far as it did is because she blacked out drunk and awoke in the hospital not knowing wth had happened to her. She could have been gang raped for all she knew. HIV!! And once the sex crime investigation started to take place...that was it. No turning back.

You literally have no idea what she would have done if she had woken up. And you are completely, totally missing the point. The fact that she was blackout drunk is what makes this assault. Conscious or not, her level of intoxication prevented her from being capable of giving consent. That is California law; the one that was used to convict Turner of sexual assault. You, and a host of posters here, seem to have an argument with the letter of the law. Well, I guess, good thing for you you don't live in California. Because irrespective of what you think it should be, the law says that penetrating a woman with your fingers, regardless of her level of consciousness, is a *crime* if she is so drunk she can't remember what happened. None of the other circumstances are relevant.

If Brock Turner had been black out drunk too would that have meant that she sexually assaulted him too? I mean that seriously. Would that have meant that these two raped each other if they both couldn't remember what happened?

Obviously these two were both very drunk. She more so than him. Although it sure doesn't sound as though he was with it enough to know how drunk she was. Her own sister had no idea how drunk Emily Doe was In fact she states that she thought her sister was fine when she left the party for a while to escort a very drunk friend back to her dorm room. Emily Doe had no idea how drunk she was. Why on earth would this guy know that she was that drunk? Serious question. How are you supposed to know that?

At any rate, none of this excuses what Brock Turner did. He admitted to hooking up with and fingering a drunk girl. He admitted was caught dry humping a passed out girl. That was wrong of him and he has been convicted.

This is a cautionary tale for both young men and women. Bad choices ruin lives.

You can't actually sexually assault someone when you are passed out on the ground. Just an FYI.

Oh, but if you black out and don't remember what you did it makes it a sexual assault. If she had *remembered* being fingered while making out the penetration wouldn't have been a crime. It's not what you did, it's whether you remember doing it that determines whether or not you consented. So the question remains....if Brock had also blacked out drunk (not passed out, blacked out) would he be able to accuse Emily Doe of sexually assaulting him? It's a fair question.

He dry humped her after she was passed out. No one saw him penetrating her when she was passed out. He's in trouble for the penetration because she says she doesn't remember it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Brock is undoubtedly a douchebag, but 6 months of jail and spending the rest of your life as a registered sex offender seems like a reasonable punishment for a man who fingered a passed out drunk girl (and even then we don't know for certain that she was passed out at that moment he did it)

Leave the "fingering" aside.

He was seen humping her "corpse-like" (the witness's words) body. She was unconscious and he was humping her. We know this because two people saw it. He was convicted of sexual assault with the intent to rape for doing that. It's not questionable. It's not he said/she said. There were two (male) witnesses to that.

6 months isn't enough time for a would-be rapist.

Yes, he was dry humping her unconscious body, which I agree is a crime. But 6 months seems like a reasonable punishment for that sort of crime. There is no way anyone can know if he intended to rape her.

The jury convicted him of intending to rape her. It's been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. They heard all of the evidence and saw the witnesses and the defendant.

We do know that he intended to rape her because he was convicted of intending to rape her.

Are the members of the jury mind readers? Just because they thought he intended to rape her doesn't mean they knew for sure he intended to rape her. Personally, I think he intended to rape her as well, but I still think there is enough reasonable doubt that I would not feel comfortable issuing a sentence based on my gut feeling. Sorry, I think the Judge's sentence was reasonable based on the evidence available.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If Emily Doe had come to after the swedes arrived on the scene and realized that this guy that she had been making out with had continued to dry hump her even after she had passed out, she would have been humiliated and pissed off at him. But I can about guarantee that she would have not called the cops, gone and done the rape kit exams, had photos taken of her naked body. No way would she have wanted to read about this in the paper.

She would have told Brock off in no uncertain terms and that would have been it. Maybe they would have both learned their lesson right then and there. Two lives spared and able to move on.

The reason this got as far as it did is because she blacked out drunk and awoke in the hospital not knowing wth had happened to her. She could have been gang raped for all she knew. HIV!! And once the sex crime investigation started to take place...that was it. No turning back.

You literally have no idea what she would have done if she had woken up. And you are completely, totally missing the point. The fact that she was blackout drunk is what makes this assault. Conscious or not, her level of intoxication prevented her from being capable of giving consent. That is California law; the one that was used to convict Turner of sexual assault. You, and a host of posters here, seem to have an argument with the letter of the law. Well, I guess, good thing for you you don't live in California. Because irrespective of what you think it should be, the law says that penetrating a woman with your fingers, regardless of her level of consciousness, is a *crime* if she is so drunk she can't remember what happened. None of the other circumstances are relevant.

Dude. What she put herself through with that rape kit exam and those photographs and that trial was way worse than being dry humped or even fingered by a drunken hook up. You don't seem to agree. Whatever.

Did you even read her statement?!?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If Emily Doe had come to after the swedes arrived on the scene and realized that this guy that she had been making out with had continued to dry hump her even after she had passed out, she would have been humiliated and pissed off at him. But I can about guarantee that she would have not called the cops, gone and done the rape kit exams, had photos taken of her naked body. No way would she have wanted to read about this in the paper.

She would have told Brock off in no uncertain terms and that would have been it. Maybe they would have both learned their lesson right then and there. Two lives spared and able to move on.

The reason this got as far as it did is because she blacked out drunk and awoke in the hospital not knowing wth had happened to her. She could have been gang raped for all she knew. HIV!! And once the sex crime investigation started to take place...that was it. No turning back.

You literally have no idea what she would have done if she had woken up. And you are completely, totally missing the point. The fact that she was blackout drunk is what makes this assault. Conscious or not, her level of intoxication prevented her from being capable of giving consent. That is California law; the one that was used to convict Turner of sexual assault. You, and a host of posters here, seem to have an argument with the letter of the law. Well, I guess, good thing for you you don't live in California. Because irrespective of what you think it should be, the law says that penetrating a woman with your fingers, regardless of her level of consciousness, is a *crime* if she is so drunk she can't remember what happened. None of the other circumstances are relevant.

Dude. What she put herself through with that rape kit exam and those photographs and that trial was way worse than being dry humped or even fingered by a drunken hook up. You don't seem to agree. Whatever.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Brock is undoubtedly a douchebag, but 6 months of jail and spending the rest of your life as a registered sex offender seems like a reasonable punishment for a man who fingered a passed out drunk girl (and even then we don't know for certain that she was passed out at that moment he did it)

Leave the "fingering" aside.

He was seen humping her "corpse-like" (the witness's words) body. She was unconscious and he was humping her. We know this because two people saw it. He was convicted of sexual assault with the intent to rape for doing that. It's not questionable. It's not he said/she said. There were two (male) witnesses to that.

6 months isn't enough time for a would-be rapist.

Yes, he was dry humping her unconscious body, which I agree is a crime. But 6 months seems like a reasonable punishment for that sort of crime. There is no way anyone can know if he intended to rape her.

The jury convicted him of intending to rape her. It's been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. They heard all of the evidence and saw the witnesses and the defendant.

We do know that he intended to rape her because he was convicted of intending to rape her.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If Emily Doe had come to after the swedes arrived on the scene and realized that this guy that she had been making out with had continued to dry hump her even after she had passed out, she would have been humiliated and pissed off at him. But I can about guarantee that she would have not called the cops, gone and done the rape kit exams, had photos taken of her naked body. No way would she have wanted to read about this in the paper.

She would have told Brock off in no uncertain terms and that would have been it. Maybe they would have both learned their lesson right then and there. Two lives spared and able to move on.

The reason this got as far as it did is because she blacked out drunk and awoke in the hospital not knowing wth had happened to her. She could have been gang raped for all she knew. HIV!! And once the sex crime investigation started to take place...that was it. No turning back.

You literally have no idea what she would have done if she had woken up. And you are completely, totally missing the point. The fact that she was blackout drunk is what makes this assault. Conscious or not, her level of intoxication prevented her from being capable of giving consent. That is California law; the one that was used to convict Turner of sexual assault. You, and a host of posters here, seem to have an argument with the letter of the law. Well, I guess, good thing for you you don't live in California. Because irrespective of what you think it should be, the law says that penetrating a woman with your fingers, regardless of her level of consciousness, is a *crime* if she is so drunk she can't remember what happened. None of the other circumstances are relevant.

If Brock Turner had been black out drunk too would that have meant that she sexually assaulted him too? I mean that seriously. Would that have meant that these two raped each other if they both couldn't remember what happened?

Obviously these two were both very drunk. She more so than him. Although it sure doesn't sound as though he was with it enough to know how drunk she was. Her own sister had no idea how drunk Emily Doe was In fact she states that she thought her sister was fine when she left the party for a while to escort a very drunk friend back to her dorm room. Emily Doe had no idea how drunk she was. Why on earth would this guy know that she was that drunk? Serious question. How are you supposed to know that?

At any rate, none of this excuses what Brock Turner did. He admitted to hooking up with and fingering a drunk girl. He admitted was caught dry humping a passed out girl. That was wrong of him and he has been convicted.

This is a cautionary tale for both young men and women. Bad choices ruin lives.

You can't actually sexually assault someone when you are passed out on the ground. Just an FYI.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Brock is undoubtedly a douchebag, but 6 months of jail and spending the rest of your life as a registered sex offender seems like a reasonable punishment for a man who fingered a passed out drunk girl (and even then we don't know for certain that she was passed out at that moment he did it)

Leave the "fingering" aside.

He was seen humping her "corpse-like" (the witness's words) body. She was unconscious and he was humping her. We know this because two people saw it. He was convicted of sexual assault with the intent to rape for doing that. It's not questionable. It's not he said/she said. There were two (male) witnesses to that.

6 months isn't enough time for a would-be rapist.

Yes, he was dry humping her unconscious body, which I agree is a crime. But 6 months seems like a reasonable punishment for that sort of crime. There is no way anyone can know if he intended to rape her.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok. I am wondering how it is known that he fingered her. And before anyone gets hysterical, I am not trying to cast doubt. I'm just curious as how that can be determined. She obviously doesn't remember anything, the men on the bikes saw him dry humping her. Is manual penetration something that can be determined from a medical exam especially if she was not a virgin. And no I am not victim blaming, I'm just assuming that since she was 23 years old and had a boyfriend she was not a virgin.

He said he did. There was consistent physical evidence.

Ok, that's what I was wondering. If he admitted to fingering her.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If Emily Doe had come to after the swedes arrived on the scene and realized that this guy that she had been making out with had continued to dry hump her even after she had passed out, she would have been humiliated and pissed off at him. But I can about guarantee that she would have not called the cops, gone and done the rape kit exams, had photos taken of her naked body. No way would she have wanted to read about this in the paper.

She would have told Brock off in no uncertain terms and that would have been it. Maybe they would have both learned their lesson right then and there. Two lives spared and able to move on.

The reason this got as far as it did is because she blacked out drunk and awoke in the hospital not knowing wth had happened to her. She could have been gang raped for all she knew. HIV!! And once the sex crime investigation started to take place...that was it. No turning back.

You literally have no idea what she would have done if she had woken up. And you are completely, totally missing the point. The fact that she was blackout drunk is what makes this assault. Conscious or not, her level of intoxication prevented her from being capable of giving consent. That is California law; the one that was used to convict Turner of sexual assault. You, and a host of posters here, seem to have an argument with the letter of the law. Well, I guess, good thing for you you don't live in California. Because irrespective of what you think it should be, the law says that penetrating a woman with your fingers, regardless of her level of consciousness, is a *crime* if she is so drunk she can't remember what happened. None of the other circumstances are relevant.

If Brock Turner had been black out drunk too would that have meant that she sexually assaulted him too? I mean that seriously. Would that have meant that these two raped each other if they both couldn't remember what happened?

Obviously these two were both very drunk. She more so than him. Although it sure doesn't sound as though he was with it enough to know how drunk she was. Her own sister had no idea how drunk Emily Doe was In fact she states that she thought her sister was fine when she left the party for a while to escort a very drunk friend back to her dorm room. Emily Doe had no idea how drunk she was. Why on earth would this guy know that she was that drunk? Serious question. How are you supposed to know that?

At any rate, none of this excuses what Brock Turner did. He admitted to hooking up with and fingering a drunk girl. He admitted was caught dry humping a passed out girl. That was wrong of him and he has been convicted.

This is a cautionary tale for both young men and women. Bad choices ruin lives.