Anonymous
07/28/2021 08:31
Subject: Re:My Unorthodox Life on Netflix
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Julia sounded much more cogent on The View today, I was actually somewhat more impressed, but I really think her Netflix show's producers had a really poor vision for what could have been an insightful and balanced show, and instead created yet another vapid and shallow reality show. It doesn't serve any purpose other than to shock. Aren't we beyond that? I don't like the children, all, being exploited with these script set ups. We aren't seeing an accurate portrayal of Orthodox Jewish life, and we aren't seeing a portrayal of secular life. They don't exist in the way the show is trying to purport- at all.
The only character I enjoy on this show is Robert and his story. He needs an Emmy just for dealing with this whole business, and he is the only true character!
What is not authentic about orthodox life? She has explained it perfectly. I know personally the group she came from All her words are correct.
That community she is from doesn't educate daughters, they are treated as second class citizens. Many of the men have sketchy jobs. Lot's of welfare payments. It's a cult period. And the slut shaming online because they don't like being called out is so pious of them those godly women.
As for her children. All are over 18 except one meaning adults. They are not being exploited. Maybe the youngest. Even that is questionable since both parents signed on.
Several aspects of the show seem exploitative, as just about every reality show there is. The "discussions " and events are contrived. Yes, her children are adults, but I really doubt that they knew what they were getting into. The middle daughter's journey of identity and expression is definitely being forced for camera. None of this is organic, so I'd like to say that it's the secular side of this which is the most inauthentic, and we really don't see the Monsey side at all.
The youngest kid should have been off limits, period.
With regard to the orthodox side, there is a whole lot of context missing. Please be aware that most girls really do go to college. Rarely are they married at 19 now, in fact, shidduchs are preferred with educated girls. Many of the women have jobs, professional jobs, and jobs that require education.
Are the K to 12 schools on par with public schools? No. There is a definite emphasis on religion over skills, no question, but they are educated enough to manage college. What she means is the Torah education becomes less for girls, they play second in studying Torah, obligations, etc. They have their own set of mandates. You and I would not be comfortable with this expression of Judaism- the role of women in everything, expectations, strict moral codes which benefit men more for sure ( it exists for
men, too ), presumptions, homophobia, marriage expectations, you name it, but there are many happy families in these communities, and probably unhappy ones- but it is interesting to note that there are as many who choose it, both Jewish ( non or less religious) and not Jewish , as there are who leave it. That is true.
No, it is not for me, and I can list more reasons why than Julia can, but this show doesn't display the whole picture.
It's just like any other religion and/or culture which, if it doesn't appeal to us, might look like a cult. I happen to think most religions, or even capitalism can be a form of a cult. There are reasons people are drawn to structures.
I’m one of the previous posters who was raised modern orthodox. I went to an excellent Jewish private school that focused more on “secular” education and had excellent college placement. I dressed normally and looked normal to the outside world. That said, as a woman, I was vocally questioning things in my religious studies classes by high school. An orthodoxies teacher from the world Julia comes from, teaching a course called “Jewish thought” failed me for writing a paper disagreeing with a right wing lecture she had forced us to listen to on Jewish laws prohibiting touching before marriage. It compared unmarried women touching and tempting men to prostitutes. I had to take the issue to the administration, where I was forced to repeat the assignment with a different right wing lecture on a law I could “agree” with. We had another religious class called “Jewish women” where on the first day, we were told our obligations as women were “lighting sabbath candles, baking challah and Nidah (a term used to describe two weeks a month where a woman is impure because she has her period and is infertile, and therefore must refrain from intimacy with her husband.)
There are some people like PP who are happy with that lifestyle, but for the most part, kids are being taught cult like ideas in an extremely insular environment and see nothing else. They are then shipped off to extremely right wing yeshivas in Israel for a year post college to hammer it in and really brainwash them. That’s what keeps the cycle going. There are beautiful parts of Judaism, but this is not one of them.
*sorry, shipped off to Israel for a year post high school, pre college.
Anonymous
07/28/2021 08:27
Subject: Re:My Unorthodox Life on Netflix
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Julia sounded much more cogent on The View today, I was actually somewhat more impressed, but I really think her Netflix show's producers had a really poor vision for what could have been an insightful and balanced show, and instead created yet another vapid and shallow reality show. It doesn't serve any purpose other than to shock. Aren't we beyond that? I don't like the children, all, being exploited with these script set ups. We aren't seeing an accurate portrayal of Orthodox Jewish life, and we aren't seeing a portrayal of secular life. They don't exist in the way the show is trying to purport- at all.
The only character I enjoy on this show is Robert and his story. He needs an Emmy just for dealing with this whole business, and he is the only true character!
What is not authentic about orthodox life? She has explained it perfectly. I know personally the group she came from All her words are correct.
That community she is from doesn't educate daughters, they are treated as second class citizens. Many of the men have sketchy jobs. Lot's of welfare payments. It's a cult period. And the slut shaming online because they don't like being called out is so pious of them those godly women.
As for her children. All are over 18 except one meaning adults. They are not being exploited. Maybe the youngest. Even that is questionable since both parents signed on.
Several aspects of the show seem exploitative, as just about every reality show there is. The "discussions " and events are contrived. Yes, her children are adults, but I really doubt that they knew what they were getting into. The middle daughter's journey of identity and expression is definitely being forced for camera. None of this is organic, so I'd like to say that it's the secular side of this which is the most inauthentic, and we really don't see the Monsey side at all.
The youngest kid should have been off limits, period.
With regard to the orthodox side, there is a whole lot of context missing. Please be aware that most girls really do go to college. Rarely are they married at 19 now, in fact, shidduchs are preferred with educated girls. Many of the women have jobs, professional jobs, and jobs that require education.
Are the K to 12 schools on par with public schools? No. There is a definite emphasis on religion over skills, no question, but they are educated enough to manage college. What she means is the Torah education becomes less for girls, they play second in studying Torah, obligations, etc. They have their own set of mandates. You and I would not be comfortable with this expression of Judaism- the role of women in everything, expectations, strict moral codes which benefit men more for sure ( it exists for
men, too ), presumptions, homophobia, marriage expectations, you name it, but there are many happy families in these communities, and probably unhappy ones- but it is interesting to note that there are as many who choose it, both Jewish ( non or less religious) and not Jewish , as there are who leave it. That is true.
No, it is not for me, and I can list more reasons why than Julia can, but this show doesn't display the whole picture.
It's just like any other religion and/or culture which, if it doesn't appeal to us, might look like a cult. I happen to think most religions, or even capitalism can be a form of a cult. There are reasons people are drawn to structures.
I’m one of the previous posters who was raised modern orthodox. I went to an excellent Jewish private school that focused more on “secular” education and had excellent college placement. I dressed normally and looked normal to the outside world. That said, as a woman, I was vocally questioning things in my religious studies classes by high school. An orthodoxies teacher from the world Julia comes from, teaching a course called “Jewish thought” failed me for writing a paper disagreeing with a right wing lecture she had forced us to listen to on Jewish laws prohibiting touching before marriage. It compared unmarried women touching and tempting men to prostitutes. I had to take the issue to the administration, where I was forced to repeat the assignment with a different right wing lecture on a law I could “agree” with. We had another religious class called “Jewish women” where on the first day, we were told our obligations as women were “lighting sabbath candles, baking challah and Nidah (a term used to describe two weeks a month where a woman is impure because she has her period and is infertile, and therefore must refrain from intimacy with her husband.)
There are some people like PP who are happy with that lifestyle, but for the most part, kids are being taught cult like ideas in an extremely insular environment and see nothing else. They are then shipped off to extremely right wing yeshivas in Israel for a year post college to hammer it in and really brainwash them. That’s what keeps the cycle going. There are beautiful parts of Judaism, but this is not one of them.
Anonymous
07/27/2021 22:45
Subject: My Unorthodox Life on Netflix
I decided to watch a couple episodes based on the fact that DCUM hated it. I don’t even like reality tv, but it was interesting at times. I appreciate how she protects her models.
Anonymous
07/23/2021 15:55
Subject: Re:My Unorthodox Life on Netflix
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Julia sounded much more cogent on The View today, I was actually somewhat more impressed, but I really think her Netflix show's producers had a really poor vision for what could have been an insightful and balanced show, and instead created yet another vapid and shallow reality show. It doesn't serve any purpose other than to shock. Aren't we beyond that? I don't like the children, all, being exploited with these script set ups. We aren't seeing an accurate portrayal of Orthodox Jewish life, and we aren't seeing a portrayal of secular life. They don't exist in the way the show is trying to purport- at all.
The only character I enjoy on this show is Robert and his story. He needs an Emmy just for dealing with this whole business, and he is the only true character!
What is not authentic about orthodox life? She has explained it perfectly. I know personally the group she came from All her words are correct.
That community she is from doesn't educate daughters, they are treated as second class citizens. Many of the men have sketchy jobs. Lot's of welfare payments. It's a cult period. And the slut shaming online because they don't like being called out is so pious of them those godly women.
As for her children. All are over 18 except one meaning adults. They are not being exploited. Maybe the youngest. Even that is questionable since both parents signed on.
Several aspects of the show seem exploitative, as just about every reality show there is. The "discussions " and events are contrived. Yes, her children are adults, but I really doubt that they knew what they were getting into. The middle daughter's journey of identity and expression is definitely being forced for camera. None of this is organic, so I'd like to say that it's the secular side of this which is the most inauthentic, and we really don't see the Monsey side at all.
The youngest kid should have been off limits, period.
With regard to the orthodox side, there is a whole lot of context missing. Please be aware that most girls really do go to college. Rarely are they married at 19 now, in fact, shidduchs are preferred with educated girls. Many of the women have jobs, professional jobs, and jobs that require education.
Are the K to 12 schools on par with public schools? No. There is a definite emphasis on religion over skills, no question, but they are educated enough to manage college. What she means is the Torah education becomes less for girls, they play second in studying Torah, obligations, etc. They have their own set of mandates. You and I would not be comfortable with this expression of Judaism- the role of women in everything, expectations, strict moral codes which benefit men more for sure ( it exists for
men, too ), presumptions, homophobia, marriage expectations, you name it, but there are many happy families in these communities, and probably unhappy ones- but it is interesting to note that there are as many who choose it, both Jewish ( non or less religious) and not Jewish , as there are who leave it. That is true.
No, it is not for me, and I can list more reasons why than Julia can, but this show doesn't display the whole picture.
It's just like any other religion and/or culture which, if it doesn't appeal to us, might look like a cult. I happen to think most religions, or even capitalism can be a form of a cult. There are reasons people are drawn to structures.
Anonymous
07/23/2021 15:26
Subject: Re:My Unorthodox Life on Netflix
Anonymous wrote:Julia sounded much more cogent on The View today, I was actually somewhat more impressed, but I really think her Netflix show's producers had a really poor vision for what could have been an insightful and balanced show, and instead created yet another vapid and shallow reality show. It doesn't serve any purpose other than to shock. Aren't we beyond that? I don't like the children, all, being exploited with these script set ups. We aren't seeing an accurate portrayal of Orthodox Jewish life, and we aren't seeing a portrayal of secular life. They don't exist in the way the show is trying to purport- at all.
The only character I enjoy on this show is Robert and his story. He needs an Emmy just for dealing with this whole business, and he is the only true character!
What is not authentic about orthodox life? She has explained it perfectly. I know personally the group she came from All her words are correct.
That community she is from doesn't educate daughters, they are treated as second class citizens. Many of the men have sketchy jobs. Lot's of welfare payments. It's a cult period. And the slut shaming online because they don't like being called out is so pious of them those godly women.
As for her children. All are over 18 except one meaning adults. They are not being exploited. Maybe the youngest. Even that is questionable since both parents signed on.
Anonymous
07/23/2021 15:18
Subject: My Unorthodox Life on Netflix
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'll answer here to the best of my ability. Pp who actually grew up with no movies or secular books and is annoyed and slightly amused by Julia (we knew her as Talia Leibov)
I am curious how someone who claims to know this woman happened to be on DCUM and land in this thread.
LOL- same! Ultraconservatives are not supposed to be on computers. I call BS
The orthodox community, particularly the one referenced in the show, does use computers and social media. Many even have their own social media accounts to promote or sell, they use online materials to "lern" ( study Torah), and just about for anything else. I know many orthodox people, and they are on FB, forums like anyone. In fact, they even have their own private FB groups discussing aspects of life- there were several that were pretty active during the Trump years. Many had a hard time being vocal about not supporting that administration in the thick of the larger community that did, and still feel the need to remain underground about it, and use these groups readily.
If you want to see the orthodox community online...go ahead. There's total transparency in accounts with regard to orthodox accounts. There are singers ( yes, women singers) , clothing designers, educational, beauty and style, wigs, and culinary IG accounts. And yes, they are fully orthodox, not necessarily Modern Orthodox.
Now, in NY, there are even more extreme Hasidic sects that are likely not using social media- Satmar, etc. , but by in large the Orthodox Jewish community is online. They are often probably not letting their kids use online resources, and they don't really watch mainstream TV, or have access to mainstrean music. Online research in the frum day schools is super poor or doesn't exist, which is really costing them relevant and appropriate education, but, yes, this community has computers and use social media.
Anonymous
07/23/2021 15:08
Subject: My Unorthodox Life on Netflix
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'll answer here to the best of my ability. Pp who actually grew up with no movies or secular books and is annoyed and slightly amused by Julia (we knew her as Talia Leibov)
I am curious how someone who claims to know this woman happened to be on DCUM and land in this thread.
LOL- same! Ultraconservatives are not supposed to be on computers. I call BS
You are correct. I explained that I am from a very ultra conservative community, but have moved to the left. Oj1
Anonymous
07/23/2021 15:00
Subject: My Unorthodox Life on Netflix
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'll answer here to the best of my ability. Pp who actually grew up with no movies or secular books and is annoyed and slightly amused by Julia (we knew her as Talia Leibov)
I am curious how someone who claims to know this woman happened to be on DCUM and land in this thread.
LOL- same! Ultraconservatives are not supposed to be on computers. I call BS
Anonymous
07/23/2021 12:07
Subject: Re:My Unorthodox Life on Netflix
Julia sounded much more cogent on The View today, I was actually somewhat more impressed, but I really think her Netflix show's producers had a really poor vision for what could have been an insightful and balanced show, and instead created yet another vapid and shallow reality show. It doesn't serve any purpose other than to shock. Aren't we beyond that? I don't like the children, all, being exploited with these script set ups. We aren't seeing an accurate portrayal of Orthodox Jewish life, and we aren't seeing a portrayal of secular life. They don't exist in the way the show is trying to purport- at all.
The only character I enjoy on this show is Robert and his story. He needs an Emmy just for dealing with this whole business, and he is the only true character!
The only character I enjoy on this show is Robert and his story. He needs an Emmy just for dealing with this whole business, and he is the only true character!
Anonymous
07/21/2021 16:27
Subject: My Unorthodox Life on Netflix
Anonymous wrote:Julia Haart should really be on RHONY. That really seems to be a better vehicle for her brand of crazy.
Yeah. As one of the previous posters who was raised in the orthodox world (but is no longer orthodox), a lot of what she says about the community is accurate. But the show makes the alternative goal of “getting out” seem like a trashy, ostentatious episode of real Housewives, or keeping up with the kardashians.
Also resented her dissuading her daughter from dressing modestly when going home to monsey to visit her dad. She didn’t have to, but if that’s how she felt most comfortable, what issue is it to her?
Anonymous
07/21/2021 13:19
Subject: My Unorthodox Life on Netflix
Julia Haart should really be on RHONY. That really seems to be a better vehicle for her brand of crazy.
Anonymous
07/21/2021 13:00
Subject: My Unorthodox Life on Netflix
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:For a more balanced view, here is an interview with an Orthodox woman from Borough Park, where she talks about her life, work and family. In my experience (I am not Orthodox, but have several friends who are), this is more reflective of the community than what various “unorthodox “ movies are portraying.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jUDFpt6lcew
This guy is libertarian right wing. Feel free to catch his other " balanced" videos, like the one on the border.
Re: video" You'll die faster from worrying, than COVID", please read up on how the NY orthodox dealt with COVID. They didn't.
FWIW, to be balanced, I've enclosed a link. I am not orthodox, don't agree with most of their religious and community tenets, but I did appreciate this written rebuttal on a number of levels, which surprised even me.
The Forward is a Jewish newspaper, usually catering to the observant.
https://forward.com/scribe/473098/i-grew-up-in-the-same-community-as-the-star-of-netflixs-my-unorthodox-life/
Oj1 - the forward actually caters to the Jewish involved but non observant, but I happen to really like this article.
I rolled my eyes IRL when I read “ So please Talia if you need to speak your truth, speak it, but speak the actual damn truth.” The author can write about how she perceived Talia, but she can’t say how Talia actually felt or what happened when she (the author was not around). She saw a fraction of someone else’s experience and us angry that fraction isn’t reflected in the show. She could make her own show that shows how unburdened and joyous she finds ultra Orthodox womanhood. But she can’t say someone else’s story isn’t the actual truth.
I was with her until she brought up class and Kate Middleton.
Yeah, okay, I agree, no one needs to be compared with another person to describe class, and Kate Middletown has nothing to do with anything, class, or this situation, but the "class" issue was spot on. I think she meant general decorum. Who meets someone for the first time and begins discussing sex and pulls out a vibrator? Who discusses her children's sexual experiences in a memoir? She's extremely inappropriate in many ways. In summary, this is less about the two cultures, and more about a person with issues that producers are exploiting, the same way the RH franchise does. And that's not classy.
Pretty sure nobody on that show is trying to be classy.
Good! Then it was a success!
Anonymous
07/20/2021 22:49
Subject: My Unorthodox Life on Netflix
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:For a more balanced view, here is an interview with an Orthodox woman from Borough Park, where she talks about her life, work and family. In my experience (I am not Orthodox, but have several friends who are), this is more reflective of the community than what various “unorthodox “ movies are portraying.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jUDFpt6lcew
This guy is libertarian right wing. Feel free to catch his other " balanced" videos, like the one on the border.
Re: video" You'll die faster from worrying, than COVID", please read up on how the NY orthodox dealt with COVID. They didn't.
FWIW, to be balanced, I've enclosed a link. I am not orthodox, don't agree with most of their religious and community tenets, but I did appreciate this written rebuttal on a number of levels, which surprised even me.
The Forward is a Jewish newspaper, usually catering to the observant.
https://forward.com/scribe/473098/i-grew-up-in-the-same-community-as-the-star-of-netflixs-my-unorthodox-life/
Oj1 - the forward actually caters to the Jewish involved but non observant, but I happen to really like this article.
I rolled my eyes IRL when I read “ So please Talia if you need to speak your truth, speak it, but speak the actual damn truth.” The author can write about how she perceived Talia, but she can’t say how Talia actually felt or what happened when she (the author was not around). She saw a fraction of someone else’s experience and us angry that fraction isn’t reflected in the show. She could make her own show that shows how unburdened and joyous she finds ultra Orthodox womanhood. But she can’t say someone else’s story isn’t the actual truth.
I was with her until she brought up class and Kate Middleton.
Yeah, okay, I agree, no one needs to be compared with another person to describe class, and Kate Middletown has nothing to do with anything, class, or this situation, but the "class" issue was spot on. I think she meant general decorum. Who meets someone for the first time and begins discussing sex and pulls out a vibrator? Who discusses her children's sexual experiences in a memoir? She's extremely inappropriate in many ways. In summary, this is less about the two cultures, and more about a person with issues that producers are exploiting, the same way the RH franchise does. And that's not classy.
Pretty sure nobody on that show is trying to be classy.
Anonymous
07/20/2021 15:17
Subject: My Unorthodox Life on Netflix
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:For a more balanced view, here is an interview with an Orthodox woman from Borough Park, where she talks about her life, work and family. In my experience (I am not Orthodox, but have several friends who are), this is more reflective of the community than what various “unorthodox “ movies are portraying.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jUDFpt6lcew
This guy is libertarian right wing. Feel free to catch his other " balanced" videos, like the one on the border.
Re: video" You'll die faster from worrying, than COVID", please read up on how the NY orthodox dealt with COVID. They didn't.
FWIW, to be balanced, I've enclosed a link. I am not orthodox, don't agree with most of their religious and community tenets, but I did appreciate this written rebuttal on a number of levels, which surprised even me.
The Forward is a Jewish newspaper, usually catering to the observant.
https://forward.com/scribe/473098/i-grew-up-in-the-same-community-as-the-star-of-netflixs-my-unorthodox-life/
Oj1 - the forward actually caters to the Jewish involved but non observant, but I happen to really like this article.
I rolled my eyes IRL when I read “ So please Talia if you need to speak your truth, speak it, but speak the actual damn truth.” The author can write about how she perceived Talia, but she can’t say how Talia actually felt or what happened when she (the author was not around). She saw a fraction of someone else’s experience and us angry that fraction isn’t reflected in the show. She could make her own show that shows how unburdened and joyous she finds ultra Orthodox womanhood. But she can’t say someone else’s story isn’t the actual truth.
I was with her until she brought up class and Kate Middleton.
Yeah, okay, I agree, no one needs to be compared with another person to describe class, and Kate Middletown has nothing to do with anything, class, or this situation, but the "class" issue was spot on. I think she meant general decorum. Who meets someone for the first time and begins discussing sex and pulls out a vibrator? Who discusses her children's sexual experiences in a memoir? She's extremely inappropriate in many ways. In summary, this is less about the two cultures, and more about a person with issues that producers are exploiting, the same way the RH franchise does. And that's not classy.
Anonymous
07/20/2021 11:14
Subject: My Unorthodox Life on Netflix
Anonymous wrote:A similar shoe would be of a woman who escaped an abusive polygamous marriage in Saudi Arabia. That would never be shown
Are you nuts? Of course that would be shown on Netflix or Amazon. They are desperate for content.
The problem is that abused women in polygamous marriages in Saudi Arabia very rarely make it out of that country. It surely won't be filmed in SA.