Anonymous wrote:I have not read the whole thread but if it was my DD, I would have raised a stink and called the hotel security and the cops. Probably nothing would have happened but the boys and their parents would have been very much embarrassed. Hopefully, there were some boys who were not the perverts who would have been appalled by getting dragged into this.

I would have taken pictures of the boys too on my cell phone.

I would have done with same. F the whole "oh boys will be boys and just let it go" mentality.

Anonymous wrote: Wow. I really can’t believe some of the posters on here.

Do you really think it’s harmless fun if *you* were surrounded by a group of larger men, and when you tried to escape, one grabbed your butt?

I was assaulted at the pool as a pre-teen, and it often starts with a butt pinch or something just as “innocent”. As boys learn they can get away with it, they push for more and more. Most of my female friends have similar stories.

My H is LEO, and you bet he would take this seriously and teach those boys a lesson they wouldn’t forget. He sees the predators they grow into every day.

Exactly. I am floored by some of the answers here but given how common sexual assault is, it's not shocking. I think some people really think that it always involves some creep hiding in the bushes. The same young teens who are touching girls without consequence can easily become the same older teens/men who end up doing much worse. My guess is that some of the same fools who don't think this is a big deal blame women for their assaults.

I have not read the whole thread but if it was my DD, I would have raised a stink and called the hotel security and the cops. Probably nothing would have happened but the boys and their parents would have been very much embarrassed. Hopefully, there were some boys who were not the perverts who would have been appalled by getting dragged into this.

I would have taken pictures of the boys too on my cell phone.

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Anonymous wrote:Former 13-year old boy here. I bet they were standing around and one of them got the stupid idea to do this and dared one of the other boys to do it. It's because they are stupid and lack judgment, not because they are sexual predators.

I can imagine the father coming up and yelling at the boys and asking who did it. You think any boy will just fess up? No way.

Exactly. Stupid harmless prank.

The women on this board are nuts.

Not harmless. It's assault. You wouldn't put up with it between adults, why is it ok between kids/teens? What message are you sending to these boys?

A similar thing happened to me on the school bus. I was surrounded by boys and didn't know who did it. I was angry and let them know. I told my parents, but asked them not to say anything. The next day my older cousin who lived a few towns over met me at the bus stop and went on the bus. I don't know what was said, but I could tell it scared them and they never touched me again.

This was in the 80s. I'm sure all the parents of
snowflakes today would try to sue or get the bus driver fired. My dad is old school from the south who moved north so he handled it in his country way without breaking his promise to me.

I think it's important to address issues like this when they happen. I also understand why the dad honored his daughter's wishes.

Anonymous wrote:I think we actually need to publicly shame boys and men like this in real time. They get away with it when no one speaks up. I know it’s easier said than done. I know some women and girls have already caught some harassment on camera. I hope they keep doing it and shaming these men.

💯 I have a very tall 11 year old daughter who looks like she could be in high school because of her height and have seen older men (20-somethings to dads pushing strollers) check her out when I am walking with her and her friends to the park- so gross. I dress her in Lands End, JCrew and LL bean clothes because I know if she wore standard “juniors” clothes she would be even more of a target.

Also, boys that would surround a young girl in a pool are future predators. I am 48- when I traveling in Rome alone for a business trip,4 years ago,I was harassed and stalked for 1 hour around the city when I was sightseeing by a group of well-dressed Italian men who kept telling me “you are so beautiful and gorgeous”- the only reason I was able to escape for them was because I ducked into a chapel and a group of nuns were there who I started talking to. The police officers that I saw laughed at the guys comments.

We have to teach young people that all people have sovereignty over their bodies at any age and sexual harassment in any form is never ok. I m so sorry that this young girl had to experience it. Grateful to the mom for sharing this experience. I hope the dad sees how he missed a prime opportunity to advocate for his daughter when she was assaulted and will do so if she unfortunately ever experiences harassment again.

Anonymous wrote:An adult male yelling threats at 13 year-old boys is assault.

A 13 year old boy pinching a girls butt under water is assault.

One of these will be well witnessed and on video.


If my child came to me and told me a group of boys pinched them in the pool I'd calmly tell the boys that I knew one of them pinched larla and that I'd be sure that they were prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I'd complain to the hotel management, in the way a morally ambiguous consequentialist parent would do.

I'm not a good person. I accept that. But I'll protect my children.

I also teach my kids to be situationally aware, wary of teenage boys they don't know, and to that they can talk to me without shame, about anything.

Realistically, I'd expect mine to swim away and not be terribly bothered by it.

? yelling a threat like I'm going to punch you is an assault?

You expect your 11 yr old DD to not be bothered by sexual assault ? Well, it's no wonder sex assaults are still happening regularly. Even grown ups think it's nbd for children to be sexually assaulted. Wow.

During the whole Kavanugh thing, I recall some reporter asking a mom with two tween/teen DDS with her what she thought about the allegations. She said, it was no big deal. That's how boys are. That's you.

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Anonymous wrote:Dear God. It's a butt. Everyone is so sad and angry because every Mole hill is turned into a mountain.

Now is a good learning opportunity about how to confront people and talk about what your boundaries are. But I disagree with the posters who think she should feel victimized here. Infact, I would applaud her for being so resilient and keeping things in perspective. It wasn't right. It's her body and no one has a right to touch it without her permission.
But an immature fool showed off to his stupid friends by pinching a butt. Meh. Life goes on.

Of course life goes on, you dumba$$. No one said her life was over or that she needs therapy. FFS.

But this is not a harmless prank. If it was so harless why the f* do you think she told her father and she was embarrassed by it?

It's no wonder we still have male predators in our society. People like you think it was a harmless prank, and boys should just be allowed to get away with sh1t like this.

I have a teen son, and if he did this, you bet he'd be in huge trouble.

I am the pp. You sound so hysterical it's hard to take anything you day seriously. You're a total joke.
I've been assaulted far far worse and I said it's not okay. But hysterical drama queens like you teach victim hood and it's despicable.
The girl handled it with far more maturity than you. She sounds like a reasonable person who can take things in stride and keep them kn perspective. You are a screaming Froot Loop.

Going up to the boys and scolding them, demanding to know who sexually assaulted my DD is being '"hysterical"? Not doing a damn thing about it is letting yourself be a victim. "It's not ok but we won't do anything about it because we don't want to be seen as hysterical". Wow, how sad for you. My 13 yr old DD would have actually screamed at the boys. She knows she can stand up for herself. Sad that you think standing up to bullies and molestors = "being hysterical".

According to the United States Department of Justice, sexual assault is “any type of sexual contact or behavior that occurs without the explicit consent of the recipient.” Sexual assault is basically an umbrella term that includes sexual activities such as rape, fondling, and attempted rape

It's even more disturbing that those creeps targeted an 11 yr old, and you think doing nothing is fine.

An 11 yr old girl feels embarrassed that this happened, but she should not be the one to feel this way. And you saying "oh do nothing even though it's no 'ok'" is basically agreeing that she should be embarrassed.

I'm embarrassed for you.

I dont think you understand reality vs the rich fantasy life you are leading in your head.

This incident happened IN THE PAST. AT A HOTEL.
This conversation is not about owning a time machine or laying in bed at night Jerking off to fantasies of yourself reigning righteous indignation down upon the rest of society.

This is about a girl going forward and taking what happened in stride.
Try it sometime. People will probably like you alot better.

? Yes, it already happened. But people are saying what they would've done at the moment. Are people saying that OP should go back and find those boys? That's not what I'm saying above. But I am responding to those people who think that it was "prank" (a word used by probably a male predator himself up thread) and NBD that the boys did it.

I have also been touched this way several times as a teen, and I also felt embarrassed and didn't tell the teachers. I wish I had an adult who told me that I should not be embarrassed, and called the boys out. I know of at least one boy who did this several times to other girls as well. One of the girls had a big BF who found the creep and beat the crap out of him.

I'm betting that this won't be the last time those boys do sh1t like this. Maybe it wasn't even the first time. These boys feel entitled to touch a girl inappropiately, and until someone calls them out on it, or beats the sh1t out of them for doing it, more than likely, they will continue doing it. These guys are predators.

So was the boyfriend arrested for beating the crap out of someone? Did he go to jail? Did he beat the right boy up? Did the girl like her boyfriend’s sudden out breaks of violence? What happens if the other boys are better fighters vs the boyfriend? What happens if one of the other boys has a gun or decides to get revenge against the girl or her family? Some many questions but violence is not the answer.

So, let's stay quiet about being sexually assaulted just in case the violence escalates. Women and 11 yr old girls should just bear the assault so that men don't get into trouble.

OMG.

No, he didn't get arrested. It happened in school, and if the cops had been called, that boy who assaulted me and the other girls would have also gotten into trouble, and possibly kicked out of school. He did this to several girls, and see, no one said anything, and that's why he got away with it until the BF of one confronted him.

I dont think the boy who punched that creep would have gotten kicked out, maybe suspended but not kicked out.

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Anonymous wrote:I agree with those who have said it was important for DH to support DDs wishes in this moment. As another poster said, she wanted to be heard and supported, not ignored and defended against her wishes.

I understand the impulse to want to yell at the boys and it isn’t fair that they didn’t face consequences but retaining your daughters trust is so, so important. She knows that she can talk to DH and trust him to respect her. If he was to yell and make a scene against her will she would have felt humiliated and likely would not confide in him if this were to happen again.

Consequences for what? "The boys" didn't do anything wrong. One did, that doesn't mean they all face consequences.

I think they all should. Either they fess up who did it so he can be banned, or they all get banned.

Bystander training - which is teaching bystanders what to do when they witness assault - is one of the most effective ways to prevent sexual assault. They all need to learn that being a silent witness is not acceptable, and they need to report males that assault females, even if it’s their friend.

Maybe YOU should be banned. You are no less culpable than they are. Follow your own "rules" and ban yourself from everywhere.

Could you explain this comment please? The PP was at the hotel pool when this girl was assaulted. You may be confused…

PP thinks that people who did NOT do anything wrong should be banned. I'm assuming pp also did not pinch OP's daughters butt, so she should include her self in those deserving of banned. Apparently EVERYONE should be banned. Shut down the pool!

Oh, I get you now. You think the boys that contributed to this situation didn’t do anything wrong. Would you like to defend their actions to the eleven year old girl? Do you think she would feel safe with any of those boys knowing that they targeted her? What would you say to her?

There is no reason to believe they "contributed to it" any more than YOU (someone who was not there) did. What will YOU say to that 11 year old girl and YOUR contribution to it? You had just as much a role in this assault as they did, yet you want to hold children accountable and not yourself. Disgusting.

They were part of a group that targeted that girl. A younger smaller girl.

I noticed you have not said what you would say to her. Why is that?

Because I did not pinch OP's daughter's butt. And unlike you, I'm not advocating that others who ALSO did NOT pinch the butt to be hit, screamed at, threatened, arrested, or banned from pools. The only person that should get in trouble is the one who actually did it.

I am not saying you did anything. I am asking how you would explain to an eleven yr old girl why the boys targeted her and why you think they didn’t do anything wrong despite the fact that she was embarrassed and felt unsafe enough to want to leave the pool after their treatment of her. You can’t even look her in face, can you?

Of course I can't "look her in the face." I have no idea who OP is, and most likely I have never and will never meet her daughter.

It is not evident that these boys even did "target her." I think people that did nothing wrong have not done anything wrong. Random strangers who are minding their own business are not responsible for OP's daughter feeling "embarrassed and unsafe."

If you and I both happened to be in the same place today (like a grocery store or gas station) and I decided I felt "embarrassed" by your mere presence--does that give me the right to hit you? For my family members to scream at you? Unless YOU are willing to subject your self to physical assault and verbal abuse based on the "feelings" of random strangers you have no interaction with, you need to pipe down.

But of course that’s not what happened. The boys who surrounded her did act. They were not minding their own business. They forced an interaction on her. She was not embarrassed or made to feel unsafe by their mere presence but rather by their own actions. What they did was wrong but you would have the girl believe it was ok.

When it comes to assault, people have been telling women to pipe down forever. Why do you do that?

This^^^^

It’s called “gang mentality “

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Anonymous wrote:I agree with those who have said it was important for DH to support DDs wishes in this moment. As another poster said, she wanted to be heard and supported, not ignored and defended against her wishes.

I understand the impulse to want to yell at the boys and it isn’t fair that they didn’t face consequences but retaining your daughters trust is so, so important. She knows that she can talk to DH and trust him to respect her. If he was to yell and make a scene against her will she would have felt humiliated and likely would not confide in him if this were to happen again.

Consequences for what? "The boys" didn't do anything wrong. One did, that doesn't mean they all face consequences.

I think they all should. Either they fess up who did it so he can be banned, or they all get banned.

Bystander training - which is teaching bystanders what to do when they witness assault - is one of the most effective ways to prevent sexual assault. They all need to learn that being a silent witness is not acceptable, and they need to report males that assault females, even if it’s their friend.

Maybe YOU should be banned. You are no less culpable than they are. Follow your own "rules" and ban yourself from everywhere.

Could you explain this comment please? The PP was at the hotel pool when this girl was assaulted. You may be confused…

PP thinks that people who did NOT do anything wrong should be banned. I'm assuming pp also did not pinch OP's daughters butt, so she should include her self in those deserving of banned. Apparently EVERYONE should be banned. Shut down the pool!

Oh, I get you now. You think the boys that contributed to this situation didn’t do anything wrong. Would you like to defend their actions to the eleven year old girl? Do you think she would feel safe with any of those boys knowing that they targeted her? What would you say to her?

There is no reason to believe they "contributed to it" any more than YOU (someone who was not there) did. What will YOU say to that 11 year old girl and YOUR contribution to it? You had just as much a role in this assault as they did, yet you want to hold children accountable and not yourself. Disgusting.

They were part of a group that targeted that girl. A younger smaller girl.

I noticed you have not said what you would say to her. Why is that?

Because I did not pinch OP's daughter's butt. And unlike you, I'm not advocating that others who ALSO did NOT pinch the butt to be hit, screamed at, threatened, arrested, or banned from pools. The only person that should get in trouble is the one who actually did it.

I am not saying you did anything. I am asking how you would explain to an eleven yr old girl why the boys targeted her and why you think they didn’t do anything wrong despite the fact that she was embarrassed and felt unsafe enough to want to leave the pool after their treatment of her. You can’t even look her in face, can you?

Of course I can't "look her in the face." I have no idea who OP is, and most likely I have never and will never meet her daughter.

It is not evident that these boys even did "target her." I think people that did nothing wrong have not done anything wrong. Random strangers who are minding their own business are not responsible for OP's daughter feeling "embarrassed and unsafe."

If you and I both happened to be in the same place today (like a grocery store or gas station) and I decided I felt "embarrassed" by your mere presence--does that give me the right to hit you? For my family members to scream at you? Unless YOU are willing to subject your self to physical assault and verbal abuse based on the "feelings" of random strangers you have no interaction with, you need to pipe down.

But of course that’s not what happened. The boys who surrounded her did act. They were not minding their own business. They forced an interaction on her. She was not embarrassed or made to feel unsafe by their mere presence but rather by their own actions. What they did was wrong but you would have the girl believe it was ok.

When it comes to assault, people have been telling women to pipe down forever. Why do you do that?

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Anonymous wrote:I agree with those who have said it was important for DH to support DDs wishes in this moment. As another poster said, she wanted to be heard and supported, not ignored and defended against her wishes.

I understand the impulse to want to yell at the boys and it isn’t fair that they didn’t face consequences but retaining your daughters trust is so, so important. She knows that she can talk to DH and trust him to respect her. If he was to yell and make a scene against her will she would have felt humiliated and likely would not confide in him if this were to happen again.

Consequences for what? "The boys" didn't do anything wrong. One did, that doesn't mean they all face consequences.

I think they all should. Either they fess up who did it so he can be banned, or they all get banned.

Bystander training - which is teaching bystanders what to do when they witness assault - is one of the most effective ways to prevent sexual assault. They all need to learn that being a silent witness is not acceptable, and they need to report males that assault females, even if it’s their friend.

Maybe YOU should be banned. You are no less culpable than they are. Follow your own "rules" and ban yourself from everywhere.

If I witnessed an assault and did nothing, then yes, I’m at fault. But I did not witness this incident.

As I said, bystander training is one of the most effective ways to prevent sexual assault. Brock Turner would not have been caught had other people not intervened.

I do understand OP’s DH’s decision to respect his daughters wishes. However, I believe one of my roles as a parent is to draw boundaries for my children when they are unable to draw their own due to age. I personally would have called the police and notified hotel security in that situation. I believe that is an appropriate reaction for 14 year old boys.

What I don’t understand is why everyone is so quick to defend those boys. What they did was wrong, and it’s better to help them understand why *now* rather than in 10 years when they could potentially hurt someone even worse.

I think we actually need to publicly shame boys and men like this in real time. They get away with it when no one speaks up. I know it’s easier said than done. I know some women and girls have already caught some harassment on camera. I hope they keep doing it and shaming these men.

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Anonymous wrote:I agree with those who have said it was important for DH to support DDs wishes in this moment. As another poster said, she wanted to be heard and supported, not ignored and defended against her wishes.

I understand the impulse to want to yell at the boys and it isn’t fair that they didn’t face consequences but retaining your daughters trust is so, so important. She knows that she can talk to DH and trust him to respect her. If he was to yell and make a scene against her will she would have felt humiliated and likely would not confide in him if this were to happen again.

Consequences for what? "The boys" didn't do anything wrong. One did, that doesn't mean they all face consequences.

I think they all should. Either they fess up who did it so he can be banned, or they all get banned.

Bystander training - which is teaching bystanders what to do when they witness assault - is one of the most effective ways to prevent sexual assault. They all need to learn that being a silent witness is not acceptable, and they need to report males that assault females, even if it’s their friend.

Maybe YOU should be banned. You are no less culpable than they are. Follow your own "rules" and ban yourself from everywhere.

Could you explain this comment please? The PP was at the hotel pool when this girl was assaulted. You may be confused…

PP thinks that people who did NOT do anything wrong should be banned. I'm assuming pp also did not pinch OP's daughters butt, so she should include her self in those deserving of banned. Apparently EVERYONE should be banned. Shut down the pool!

Oh, I get you now. You think the boys that contributed to this situation didn’t do anything wrong. Would you like to defend their actions to the eleven year old girl? Do you think she would feel safe with any of those boys knowing that they targeted her? What would you say to her?

There is no reason to believe they "contributed to it" any more than YOU (someone who was not there) did. What will YOU say to that 11 year old girl and YOUR contribution to it? You had just as much a role in this assault as they did, yet you want to hold children accountable and not yourself. Disgusting.

They were part of a group that targeted that girl. A younger smaller girl.

I noticed you have not said what you would say to her. Why is that?

Because I did not pinch OP's daughter's butt. And unlike you, I'm not advocating that others who ALSO did NOT pinch the butt to be hit, screamed at, threatened, arrested, or banned from pools. The only person that should get in trouble is the one who actually did it.

I am not saying you did anything. I am asking how you would explain to an eleven yr old girl why the boys targeted her and why you think they didn’t do anything wrong despite the fact that she was embarrassed and felt unsafe enough to want to leave the pool after their treatment of her. You can’t even look her in face, can you?

Of course I can't "look her in the face." I have no idea who OP is, and most likely I have never and will never meet her daughter.

It is not evident that these boys even did "target her." I think people that did nothing wrong have not done anything wrong. Random strangers who are minding their own business are not responsible for OP's daughter feeling "embarrassed and unsafe."

If you and I both happened to be in the same place today (like a grocery store or gas station) and I decided I felt "embarrassed" by your mere presence--does that give me the right to hit you? For my family members to scream at you? Unless YOU are willing to subject your self to physical assault and verbal abuse based on the "feelings" of random strangers you have no interaction with, you need to pipe down.

i can't believe some people are minimizing what happened. It's sexual assault. And all the usual discussion about what we should be teaching/talking about with our daughters vs. how to teach boys (and girls) that touching anyone without their consent is wrong.

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Anonymous wrote:I agree with those who have said it was important for DH to support DDs wishes in this moment. As another poster said, she wanted to be heard and supported, not ignored and defended against her wishes.

I understand the impulse to want to yell at the boys and it isn’t fair that they didn’t face consequences but retaining your daughters trust is so, so important. She knows that she can talk to DH and trust him to respect her. If he was to yell and make a scene against her will she would have felt humiliated and likely would not confide in him if this were to happen again.

Consequences for what? "The boys" didn't do anything wrong. One did, that doesn't mean they all face consequences.

I think they all should. Either they fess up who did it so he can be banned, or they all get banned.

Bystander training - which is teaching bystanders what to do when they witness assault - is one of the most effective ways to prevent sexual assault. They all need to learn that being a silent witness is not acceptable, and they need to report males that assault females, even if it’s their friend.

Maybe YOU should be banned. You are no less culpable than they are. Follow your own "rules" and ban yourself from everywhere.

Could you explain this comment please? The PP was at the hotel pool when this girl was assaulted. You may be confused…

PP thinks that people who did NOT do anything wrong should be banned. I'm assuming pp also did not pinch OP's daughters butt, so she should include her self in those deserving of banned. Apparently EVERYONE should be banned. Shut down the pool!

Oh, I get you now. You think the boys that contributed to this situation didn’t do anything wrong. Would you like to defend their actions to the eleven year old girl? Do you think she would feel safe with any of those boys knowing that they targeted her? What would you say to her?

There is no reason to believe they "contributed to it" any more than YOU (someone who was not there) did. What will YOU say to that 11 year old girl and YOUR contribution to it? You had just as much a role in this assault as they did, yet you want to hold children accountable and not yourself. Disgusting.

They were part of a group that targeted that girl. A younger smaller girl.

I noticed you have not said what you would say to her. Why is that?

Because I did not pinch OP's daughter's butt. And unlike you, I'm not advocating that others who ALSO did NOT pinch the butt to be hit, screamed at, threatened, arrested, or banned from pools. The only person that should get in trouble is the one who actually did it.

I am not saying you did anything. I am asking how you would explain to an eleven yr old girl why the boys targeted her and why you think they didn’t do anything wrong despite the fact that she was embarrassed and felt unsafe enough to want to leave the pool after their treatment of her. You can’t even look her in face, can you?