Anonymous wrote:Point of article: We should all send our kids to public schools and dumb them down because that is what is inherently fair for society.

Alternatively:

Private schools over a certain endowment level should not be considered not-for-profit for tax purposes. Otherwise it's just a way to launder the money of wealthy people. Why should donating money to a private school be considered a charitable donation if the only point of the private school is to educate the children of the people making these "donations"? Is it considered a charitable donation if a parent hires a tutor or turns their home into a little school for their kid? Nope. That's someone taking their income and spending it on their own family and it's taxed as such. And the schools themselves should be taxed as businesses, which is what they are.

We need increased transparency and oversight of college admissions, both public and private.

We also need to do a lot around public schools and social welfare, including addressing systemic racism, but I think that's beyond the scope of the article. The main thing I took from the article is that private schools aren't really serving societal interests, they are just serving the interests of a self-perpetuating elite and as a society, we don't need to be facilitating that activity.

Anonymous wrote:Didn’t read this thread yet, but that article was all over the place. At no point did the content of the article tie in with the title, for instance. Also unclear is the author’s definition of winning (attending Princeton was what I cane away with) and it was also unclear as to how the existence of private schools hurts the attendees of public schools (I’m not arguing that point either way, I am just pointing out that the author certainly didn’t make her case - if that was even her case...).

As the product of a mediocre public school system and the parent of children in a mediocre public school system, the article read as little more than an envious tirade against rich people...

Yes, because that is the kind of material that currently gins up outrage/righteousness and will produce clicks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are over 1,000 universities in the US. Why focus so much on the 10-20 "elite" universities. People can and do perfectly well at any of the other universities.

When the most successful and wealthiest people in this country come from the top 20 schools, it’s hard not to focus on the elite schools.

Do you honestly believe their wealthy and elite stats is due to the schools they attend? (Spoiler alert: it’s not. The children of the wealthy and elite will generally continue being wealthy and elite - attending “prestigious “ schools is merely for show, e.g. justification for their elite positions, bragging rights, etc.)

Didn’t read this thread yet, but that article was all over the place. At no point did the content of the article tie in with the title, for instance. Also unclear is the author’s definition of winning (attending Princeton was what I cane away with) and it was also unclear as to how the existence of private schools hurts the attendees of public schools (I’m not arguing that point either way, I am just pointing out that the author certainly didn’t make her case - if that was even her case...).

As the product of a mediocre public school system and the parent of children in a mediocre public school system, the article read as little more than an envious tirade against rich people...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dumb article. I went to a big public high school and on to some of the best schools in the country.

Exceptions don’t make the rule.

everyone who says this "but I went public a zillion years ago and did just fine" misses the point that the public schools and college entry situation from 20+ years ago is not the equivalent of what students are facing today and forget that kids today face far more global competition for spots and jobs than prior generations ever did and also as I told my spouse my high school experience in suburbia midwest 25+ years ago is not the equivalent of a high school experience in the urban DC area today ...apples and oranges

so yeah congrats you were an exception and those exception stories have drastically declined over time as things have gotten more competitive

I am an exception also grew up in poverty, had high ACT and grades, went to high school in an area where most were looking to join the military or become a military wife and college was not a goal for most and definitely not elite colleges but just the state university. Became the first in my family to go to college and went to a mediocre college close to home on full scholarship since that was the norm and no counselor or parents were pushing kids to apply to schools with high ranks in other states. Went from mediocre college to top ranked law school where majority of my classmates went to private high schools. Law school opened my eyes to the impact that wealth and privilege and private schools had as far as the path to eventually get into a top law school like that and beyond that how all their connection made their job opportunities a lot easier to obtain also. "My dad plays golf with the partner of the firm so I have no worries about getting a job here". yadda yadda yadda. while I am sitting in Big Law interviews being asked where did my family summer and it just all ooened my eyes to how the game is played. The article is right....the winners do keep winning and the margin of error where exceptions get their foot in the door is narrowing.

Your response struck a nerve with me because this is similar to my reality growing up working class in NYC. I’m amazed at how far I’ve come. I didn’t go to grad school but working in the tech Industry opened my eyes to the disparities in this nation and how money always go where money is.

Again, thanks for sharing your story and *getting it*.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dumb article. I went to a big public high school and on to some of the best schools in the country.

Exceptions don’t make the rule.

everyone who says this "but I went public a zillion years ago and did just fine" misses the point that the public schools and college entry situation from 20+ years ago is not the equivalent of what students are facing today and forget that kids today face far more global competition for spots and jobs than prior generations ever did and also as I told my spouse my high school experience in suburbia midwest 25+ years ago is not the equivalent of a high school experience in the urban DC area today ...apples and oranges

so yeah congrats you were an exception and those exception stories have drastically declined over time as things have gotten more competitive

I am an exception also grew up in poverty, had high ACT and grades, went to high school in an area where most were looking to join the military or become a military wife and college was not a goal for most and definitely not elite colleges but just the state university. Became the first in my family to go to college and went to a mediocre college close to home on full scholarship since that was the norm and no counselor or parents were pushing kids to apply to schools with high ranks in other states. Went from mediocre college to top ranked law school where majority of my classmates went to private high schools. Law school opened my eyes to the impact that wealth and privilege and private schools had as far as the path to eventually get into a top law school like that and beyond that how all their connection made their job opportunities a lot easier to obtain also. "My dad plays golf with the partner of the firm so I have no worries about getting a job here". yadda yadda yadda. while I am sitting in Big Law interviews being asked where did my family summer and it just all ooened my eyes to how the game is played. The article is right....the winners do keep winning and the margin of error where exceptions get their foot in the door is narrowing.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!! So many people on here have trouble accepting and acknowledging the world has dramatically and radically changed over the last 25+ years. Furthermore, the world has gotten a lot more competitive and a lot after to make it to the top. What worked before doesn’t work now. Ivy Leagues over the years have gotten and more and more applicants for a variety of reasons (e.g. American population has grown, etc) while refusing to increase their class size. Scott Galloway on the pivot podcast always talks about this.

A lot of parents on here are failing their children by giving them archaic advice. It’s obvious that so many parents on this forum have trouble seeing the new reality their children are in.

I will say the people on the nycitymoms forum have far better responses than on here. Maybe it’s because NYC is FAR more competitive than DC and are more exposed to MONEY that actually makes the world move which is why they agree with this article.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Query: If you can afford to purchase a luxury car with all the bells and whistles, why shouldn’t you if you so choose, or should you allow society to shame you into purchasing a more modest vehicle? So if an elite private school offers a superior educational experience, and you can afford to send your child to one, why wouldn’t you? Why should society shame the parents who send their kids to such schools or the kids who attend? Perhaps society should a examine how the public schools have failed our kids and misspent all the public funds allocated toward public education.

The only problem is that the choice increasingly seems to be between the luxury car, and taking Metrobus. The latter is crowded, inconvenient, and sporadically doesn't show up. We don't need to shame the people with cars but we do need the bus to function much much better than it does. We need it to be safe, reliable, accessible, and even pleasant and enriching to ride. Unfortunately there are people who feel that if the bus is nice to ride, that makes their luxury car less special.

This is a great analogy. My kid was lucky enough to get a Mercedes for the price of a Yugo, but it still grieves me that it I couldn’t feel good about letting him take the bus.

For what it’s worth, after spending many years rubbing elbows with Mercedes owners, I honestly have yet to meet one who doesn’t support improving buses. I have literally never heard one express anything but good will and support towards the bus system.

What is goodwill and support? Is that like Thoughts and Prayers? Or is that like higher taxes and a willingness to ride on it so as to show all of society it is safe and reliable and deserves continued investment?

This continued private school vs public school(and heck public vs public) conversation is a microcosm of our values as a society. We highly value the CEO and pay them as though only a few select folks can do the job (hint: this is not true), but don’t value the janitor or grocery store worker, or nurse, or delivery person near as much. Yet, a pandemic hits and we realize which actually have the most societal value. This doesn’t mean the CEO isn’t important to the society, but we should question if their importance is worthy of billions of dollars more.

The same is true with private schools. Do they add value? Sure. But how and why and what is the worth. The truth is they provide the same thing that every parent wants for their child; a safe environment, where they are supported, exposed to different things and allowed to blossom into the best version of themselves. So why then are they accessible to a select few and yet public school is required to educate all who come, anyway they come? At a time when many private schools have so much, can we honestly say that we should be fundraising for an Entrepreneurial Center when there are public school systems trying to figure out how and where to build a school in order to alleviate overcrowding.

Example: We know that writing instruction is better in private school than public. So to solve this what happens? Some parents pay for tutoring, some get additional books, some switch their kid to private school. However, the societal helpful thing would be to lobby the schools, BOE, County, state, and whoever else needs to hear it, that English classes in public should be smaller so that writing instruction could be more rigorous or in the absence of smaller classes, schools from MS through HS should employ Graduate assistants in those classes so as to allow for an additional person to help out and provide feedback on rigorous writing assignments. Because we can’t expect a public school teacher to do so for 80-120 students while a private school teacher does it for 60max, right.

Anonymous wrote:Almost all of this article was blah blah blah — omg rich people! are rich! and their children are privileged!!! Nothing remotely new or insightful.

But I was struck by this observation:
Many schools for the richest American kids have gates and security guards; the message is you are precious to us. Many schools for the poorest kids have metal detectors and police officers; the message is you are a threat to us.

Well-put, and interesting. What would public schools look like if we treated poor kids as if they were as precious as rich kids?

Private schools with gates don't have kids bringing guns/weapons to school. That is why metal detectors are needed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Query: If you can afford to purchase a luxury car with all the bells and whistles, why shouldn’t you if you so choose, or should you allow society to shame you into purchasing a more modest vehicle? So if an elite private school offers a superior educational experience, and you can afford to send your child to one, why wouldn’t you? Why should society shame the parents who send their kids to such schools or the kids who attend? Perhaps society should a examine how the public schools have failed our kids and misspent all the public funds allocated toward public education.

The only problem is that the choice increasingly seems to be between the luxury car, and taking Metrobus. The latter is crowded, inconvenient, and sporadically doesn't show up. We don't need to shame the people with cars but we do need the bus to function much much better than it does. We need it to be safe, reliable, accessible, and even pleasant and enriching to ride. Unfortunately there are people who feel that if the bus is nice to ride, that makes their luxury car less special.

This is a great analogy. My kid was lucky enough to get a Mercedes for the price of a Yugo, but it still grieves me that it I couldn’t feel good about letting him take the bus.

For what it’s worth, after spending many years rubbing elbows with Mercedes owners, I honestly have yet to meet one who doesn’t support improving buses. I have literally never heard one express anything but good will and support towards the bus system.

Anonymous wrote:Point of article: We should all send our kids to public schools and dumb them down because that is what is inherently fair for society.

No, I don’t think that was the point at all. But if your kids inherited your reading comprehension abilities, I can see why you might need to spend a ton of money to give them an advantage.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dumb article. I went to a big public high school and on to some of the best schools in the country.

Exceptions don’t make the rule.

everyone who says this "but I went public a zillion years ago and did just fine" misses the point that the public schools and college entry situation from 20+ years ago is not the equivalent of what students are facing today and forget that kids today face far more global competition for spots and jobs than prior generations ever did and also as I told my spouse my high school experience in suburbia midwest 25+ years ago is not the equivalent of a high school experience in the urban DC area today ...apples and oranges

so yeah congrats you were an exception and those exception stories have drastically declined over time as things have gotten more competitive

I am an exception also grew up in poverty, had high ACT and grades, went to high school in an area where most were looking to join the military or become a military wife and college was not a goal for most and definitely not elite colleges but just the state university. Became the first in my family to go to college and went to a mediocre college close to home on full scholarship since that was the norm and no counselor or parents were pushing kids to apply to schools with high ranks in other states. Went from mediocre college to top ranked law school where majority of my classmates went to private high schools. Law school opened my eyes to the impact that wealth and privilege and private schools had as far as the path to eventually get into a top law school like that and beyond that how all their connection made their job opportunities a lot easier to obtain also. "My dad plays golf with the partner of the firm so I have no worries about getting a job here". yadda yadda yadda. while I am sitting in Big Law interviews being asked where did my family summer and it just all ooened my eyes to how the game is played. The article is right....the winners do keep winning and the margin of error where exceptions get their foot in the door is narrowing.

Point of article: We should all send our kids to public schools and dumb them down because that is what is inherently fair for society.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ The point is that the most elite privates are over represented at the most elite colleges and universities and the author is correct”

I can speak to this a bit. I went to an Ivy college from public and actually worked as a college admissions counselor a bit. I don’t think my kids need to go to elite private schools.

In fact - i think grad school & im going to encourage my kids to go to public college & save money for grad school.

good for you, it doesn't change the fact that elite privates sends disproportionate numbers of students to elite colleges

So do certain public’s—the issue is mor about class than private v public.

And those certain publics also have a select population whether via requirements to be accepted into a magnet program or the amount their parents have to pay to live in the right zip code for that school. Publics in wealthy zip codes have plenty of privileges as well and also propped up by financial support from the parent associations

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Anonymous wrote:https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/...hools-are-indefensible/618078/

Don’t let the title turn you off and give this a read!

This article was SO good and thought provoking. None of it was surprised because I figured things were the way they were regarding the chasm between private school and public schools; As well as the wealthy and everyone else.

The world has gotten more competitive. Hence the obsession with getting kids into the right school. Furthermore, I do think it’s unfair that public schools don’t have the same amount of resources as private school. I always knew they had more but I didn’t realize they had *that much more*. It’s no wonder that so many people that make it to the top come from private schools. It feels as if there are no hope for regular public school kids.

Again, really think that every parent should give this a read. Would love to hear everyone’s thoughts!
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This is nonsense. 70% of students at top colleges are from public schools and always have been.

What percentage of high school seniors are in public school? If it's more than 70% then this isn't nonsense.

It is nonsense when you take out the public schools students who would not be eligible for or ever apply to a top university.

2% of high school graduates come from independent schools, but make up 25% of top university student bodies.[i]
Independent schools in DC boast a near 100% college enrollment rate. Wilson HS in DC has a 77% college enrollment rate.

The bolded continues to fly over people's head. So many of these responses are so vacuous.

My response to the 2% observation is: So what? Isn’t that why, at least in part, we send our kids to private schools—so they can receive a better education and more opportunities? I understand that not everyone may be as fortunate, but why should I let someone shame me or my child for having good fortune? Should I force my child to attend public school (BTW, we live in an excellent school district) simply because others feel it is more equitable?

I don’t understand what wrong with acknowledging a fact. What do you mean “so what?”
That statistic is worthy of being highlighted so that people can stop pretending that there is a balance of opportunity when there is not.

You took this article way too personal and it’s obvious it struck a nerve with you. Calm down - nowhere was this article shaming people who send their children to private schools

Anonymous wrote:Dumb article. I went to a big public high school and on to some of the best schools in the country.

Exceptions don’t make the rule.